Has the vibe of this forum worsened, and - if so - what can we do to improve it?

animalelder

One suggestion I have to help us out is for everyone to use far more descriptive thread titles if possible.

Some of them almost read like clickbait, like they have two words that don’t explain what the topic is at all 👀 I tend to avoid clicking on those.

And it’s also hard to see what category a thread is in from an iPhone, so it’s kind of hard to navigate and discern what is going on based on vague titles alone.

But that would be difficult to get it going due to inertia of the way things already are.

But it was a thought I had.

HotStrange

@fisherro said:

@Robin2 said:
As a relative newcomer in these parts, one thing i think could benefit this forum would be to have the ability to ‘Like’ a comment without actually replying to it.

👍

I know people tend to associate this with “social media”, but I’ve found “reactions” to be a real boon in Slack at work and in Discord with my friends. They replace low-content messages and help encourage some feedback that would be skipped because it would be low-content that someone would feel isn’t worthy of a message.

Many times here I’ve wanted to give a thumbs-up and been sad that I can’t without posting a message, which would then have to also include a quote to be clear about what I was responding to. And when I do post a message, it would be nice to know if it was well-received by anyone even if they didn’t have much to say in response.

When it comes to how to improve the vibe, lightweight feedback like this could go a long way towards helping each of us to figure out how to improve our contributions.

Agreed. Never really got the amount of hate that idea gets here. I find it very useful in Discord. Maybe they’re scared it will ruin conversation? But still plenty of conversation in all other apps that have this feature. Not sure the exact reason beyond it simply just being similar to other social media.

Gavinski

@animalelder said:
One suggestion I have to help us out is for everyone to use far more descriptive thread titles if possible.

Some of them almost read like clickbait, like they have two words that don’t explain what the topic is at all 👀 I tend to avoid clicking on those.

And it’s also hard to see what category a thread is in from an iPhone, so it’s kind of hard to navigate and discern what is going on based on vague titles alone.

But that would be difficult to get it going due to inertia of the way things already are.

But it was a thought I had.

I would like that. It's very annoying that you can't see thread topics listed beside the title on phone so would be useful if people added that info. I guess it's hard to remember to do. Michael didn't design this forum from scratch, so that limitation regarding forum appearance on phone is not something he can do anything about, unfortunately.

Regarding clickbaity and misleading titles, it's annoying yes. I guess one solution is to point it out when someone does it, and / or flag it. I can think of at least one recent thread that I felt was titled a bit deceptively with the aim of getting more clicks and I should have called it out. I think I will next time I notice it.

knewspeak

@michael_m said:

@timforsyth said:
Personally I enjoy it more since the off topic stuff was parked.

Yes! It didn’t really have any positive benefits here, and there are plenty of other places online if anyone wants to have that type of discussion.

It’s definitely better when people don’t start posting their opinions on non-music related things.

Positive benefits, I would argue differently, perhaps in time the reality reveals itself, eyes are opened.

The universe is a grand orchestration played across the broadest scale.

Robin2

@fisherro said:

@Robin2 said:
As a relative newcomer in these parts, one thing i think could benefit this forum would be to have the ability to ‘Like’ a comment without actually replying to it.

👍

I know people tend to associate this with “social media”, but I’ve found “reactions” to be a real boon in Slack at work and in Discord with my friends. They replace low-content messages and help encourage some feedback that would be skipped because it would be low-content that someone would feel isn’t worthy of a message.

Many times here I’ve wanted to give a thumbs-up and been sad that I can’t without posting a message, which would then have to also include a quote to be clear about what I was responding to. And when I do post a message, it would be nice to know if it was well-received by anyone even if they didn’t have much to say in response.

When it comes to how to improve the vibe, lightweight feedback like this could go a long way towards helping each of us to figure out how to improve our contributions.

You’ve put it better than i did. Cheers.

Danny_Mammy

i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

michael_m

@Danny_Mammy said:
i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

When I think about it, some of the people who could argue for the most obnoxious and bigoted positions when discussing non-musical subjects are still here, so I don’t think the lack of a platform on this particular forum is problematic for them.

Perhaps one or two have disappeared, but I don’t think it’s due to anything other than them only coming here for non-music threads. Not sure that really benefits the community in any way, and it must be a nightmare to moderate.

Danny_Mammy

@michael_m said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

When I think about it, some of the people who could argue for the most obnoxious and bigoted positions when discussing non-musical subjects are still here, so I don’t think the lack of a platform on this particular forum is problematic for them.

Perhaps one or two have disappeared, but I don’t think it’s due to anything other than them only coming here for non-music threads. Not sure that really benefits the community in any way, and it must be a nightmare to moderate.

i disagree, the very fact this is a discussion IMO clearly shows many people have left which some members notice, i would also say those people who discussed non-musical arguments where most likely iOS musicians.... except for the odd bot.

michael_m

@Danny_Mammy said:

@michael_m said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

When I think about it, some of the people who could argue for the most obnoxious and bigoted positions when discussing non-musical subjects are still here, so I don’t think the lack of a platform on this particular forum is problematic for them.

Perhaps one or two have disappeared, but I don’t think it’s due to anything other than them only coming here for non-music threads. Not sure that really benefits the community in any way, and it must be a nightmare to moderate.

i disagree, the very fact this is a discussion IMO clearly shows many people have left which some members notice, i would also say those people who discussed non-musical arguments where most likely iOS musicians.... except for the odd bot.

Yes, people have left, but I don’t think they have been driven away by peer pressure related to off topic threads.

Gavinski

@Danny_Mammy said:

@michael_m said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

When I think about it, some of the people who could argue for the most obnoxious and bigoted positions when discussing non-musical subjects are still here, so I don’t think the lack of a platform on this particular forum is problematic for them.

Perhaps one or two have disappeared, but I don’t think it’s due to anything other than them only coming here for non-music threads. Not sure that really benefits the community in any way, and it must be a nightmare to moderate.

i disagree, the very fact this is a discussion IMO clearly shows many people have left which some members notice, i would also say those people who discussed non-musical arguments where most likely iOS musicians.... except for the odd bot.

Yeah, given that this group doesn't really have much if any commercial benefit for the owner, and that the mods are all just volunteering, it makes sense to just cut out the off topic section entirely. Was far too much of a headache for them. People can discuss politics and get pissy with each other on countless places on the Internet, no need for it to be here.

knewspeak

@Gavinski said:

@Danny_Mammy said:

@michael_m said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

When I think about it, some of the people who could argue for the most obnoxious and bigoted positions when discussing non-musical subjects are still here, so I don’t think the lack of a platform on this particular forum is problematic for them.

Perhaps one or two have disappeared, but I don’t think it’s due to anything other than them only coming here for non-music threads. Not sure that really benefits the community in any way, and it must be a nightmare to moderate.

i disagree, the very fact this is a discussion IMO clearly shows many people have left which some members notice, i would also say those people who discussed non-musical arguments where most likely iOS musicians.... except for the odd bot.

Yeah, given that this group doesn't really have much if any commercial benefit for the owner, and that the mods are all just volunteering, it makes sense to just cut out the off topic section entirely. Was far too much of a headache for them. People can discuss politics and get pissy with each other on countless places on the Internet, no need for it to be here.

I’d say lately most arguments have arisen discussing music related subjects so while certain topics perhaps create antagonistic positions it doesn’t necessarily need a political thread or off-topic thread to create hostility.

Luxthor

@musikeer said:
Pet peeve: members who feel the need to post "me too", or "I have the plug in too" or "can't wait" or "instabuy" etc etc. in Every. Single. Topic. Every. Single. Day. Beyond the recent GG spam. Definitely clutters up trying to find actual useful information. As this post does...

I will reveal one big secret, but you must promise you will not tell anybody.

Sometimes, when new products come to light (displays), to keep those interesting threads on the first few forum pages, instead of “ping” or ".", we use more imaginative ones like “Instaaaaabuuuuy!” or any superlative out of your mind at the moment of writing. 😂

It’s because of the forum mechanic and the space continuum.

michael_m

@knewspeak said:

@Gavinski said:

@Danny_Mammy said:

@michael_m said:

@Danny_Mammy said:
i think it's a shame people can't argue like they did in the past. most of the time some interesting observations would come out of it although of course people would get personal. none the less the forum is not same without these acts of insanity.

I believe the minority group politically or maybe a better word is ideologically seems to have left the forum which makes sense, peer pressure is real.

When I think about it, some of the people who could argue for the most obnoxious and bigoted positions when discussing non-musical subjects are still here, so I don’t think the lack of a platform on this particular forum is problematic for them.

Perhaps one or two have disappeared, but I don’t think it’s due to anything other than them only coming here for non-music threads. Not sure that really benefits the community in any way, and it must be a nightmare to moderate.

i disagree, the very fact this is a discussion IMO clearly shows many people have left which some members notice, i would also say those people who discussed non-musical arguments where most likely iOS musicians.... except for the odd bot.

Yeah, given that this group doesn't really have much if any commercial benefit for the owner, and that the mods are all just volunteering, it makes sense to just cut out the off topic section entirely. Was far too much of a headache for them. People can discuss politics and get pissy with each other on countless places on the Internet, no need for it to be here.

I’d say lately most arguments have arisen discussing music related subjects so while certain topics perhaps create antagonistic positions it doesn’t necessarily need a political thread or off-topic thread to create hostility.

Music can definitely trigger arguments, but off topic subjects like politics and religion are more likely to get more heated and divisive.

Personally I think the don’t discuss politics or religion in polite society maxim is a good one.

Mark Twain (as usual) had a good take on it:

“In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.”

tyslothrop1

@Luxthor said:

@musikeer said:
Pet peeve: members who feel the need to post "me too", or "I have the plug in too" or "can't wait" or "instabuy" etc etc. in Every. Single. Topic. Every. Single. Day. Beyond the recent GG spam. Definitely clutters up trying to find actual useful information. As this post does...

I will reveal one big secret, but you must promise you will not tell anybody.

Sometimes, when new products come to light (displays), to keep those interesting threads on the first few forum pages, instead of “ping” or ".", we use more imaginative ones like “Instaaaaabuuuuy!” or any superlative out of your mind at the moment of writing. 😂

It’s because of the forum mechanic and the space continuum.

Silly me, didn't know that, makes sense, thanks! Bit of an alien here

craftycurate

Not sure it's more negative tbh. Still seems to be a lot of helpful positivity around. But then I tend to skim over the negativity and get to the good stuff and will continue to do that, without really keeping tabs on the how much nastiness is going on.

I'm not detecting a decrease in positivity overall - still seems like a lot of great conversation about getting creative with our devices.

My aim is to be a positive presence around here, to home in on the genuine posts and engage with those, and I'm grateful for the input of everyone else who's focusing on that too.

As for what we do about any negativity or bad vibes, trying to change other people's behaviour is a bit of a lost cause. Yes, forum rules are necessary to set boundaries too. All we can really do is to bring as much positivity as we can. If I have a jar of clear water, and someone drops ink in it, the best way to make it clear again is to keep pumping in fresh water, rather than by trying to somehow fight the ink.

Also I hope we will continue to be free to express dissent or disappointment (without personal attacks) when needed, as it's important to have honesty and a balanced dialogue about things.

Anyways, just a few thoughts

bygjohn

@tyslothrop1 said:

@Luxthor said:

@musikeer said:
Pet peeve: members who feel the need to post "me too", or "I have the plug in too" or "can't wait" or "instabuy" etc etc. in Every. Single. Topic. Every. Single. Day. Beyond the recent GG spam. Definitely clutters up trying to find actual useful information. As this post does...

I will reveal one big secret, but you must promise you will not tell anybody.

Sometimes, when new products come to light (displays), to keep those interesting threads on the first few forum pages, instead of “ping” or ".", we use more imaginative ones like “Instaaaaabuuuuy!” or any superlative out of your mind at the moment of writing. 😂

It’s because of the forum mechanic and the space continuum.

Silly me, didn't know that, makes sense, thanks! Bit of an alien here

I hadn’t cottoned on to that one, either. I just thought it was excitement and exuberance, and why not? A bit of positivity can brighten up your day (and heaven knows we all need some of that these days), particularly if the new product is genuinely interesting and inspiring, at least to some people.

Danny_Mammy

positive verses negative thing, i don't understand that. if one person's point of view is seen as negative to another then how do we get anywhere. it's just points of views that people tend to change over time anyway.

tyslothrop1

@bygjohn said:

@tyslothrop1 said:

@Luxthor said:

@musikeer said:
Pet peeve: members who feel the need to post "me too", or "I have the plug in too" or "can't wait" or "instabuy" etc etc. in Every. Single. Topic. Every. Single. Day. Beyond the recent GG spam. Definitely clutters up trying to find actual useful information. As this post does...

I will reveal one big secret, but you must promise you will not tell anybody.

Sometimes, when new products come to light (displays), to keep those interesting threads on the first few forum pages, instead of “ping” or ".", we use more imaginative ones like “Instaaaaabuuuuy!” or any superlative out of your mind at the moment of writing. 😂

It’s because of the forum mechanic and the space continuum.

Silly me, didn't know that, makes sense, thanks! Bit of an alien here

I hadn’t cottoned on to that one, either. I just thought it was excitement and exuberance, and why not? A bit of positivity can brighten up your day (and heaven knows we all need some of that these days), particularly if the new product is genuinely interesting and inspiring, at least to some people.

I don't mind it at all, just like you I just didn't get that hidden function. nothing wrong with being excited.

klownshed

Of course the forum can appear to be cliquey. That's just human nature and applies to pretty much every forum you'll find.

If you don't feel like part of the main group that can be difficult I guess, but from my perspective if you want to be part of things you have to just be yourself and join in where appropriate. If you like a specific synth or plug-in, talk about it. Help out as well as ask for help when you can. It will take a while but eventually you'll be more and more well known and won't feel left out.

From a personal perspective I'm rubbish at social media. I really don't like the game of liking people's stuff so that they like you back regardless of how bad it is Not judging, it's just not for me.

But this forum lets me share music, talk about music gear and software, help out, be helped etc. without the pressure of social media in general.

With that in mind, I've been trying to take part in Richard's SOTM club as often as I can to kind of encourage myself to listen and respond to other's music in a critical not superficial way and to actually finish songs that I think are 'worthy' of being shared so that I have something to post myself.

I've been here years now and I still don't really feel like I'm part of the main group to be honest, just kind of skating around the perimeter doing my own thing...

But that's fine by me.

Oh and as for the negative aspects, like every forum people seem to enjoy a pile on. One negative comment about something is fine obviously, but it can get a bit annoying when everybody wants their say, especially when they're all saying the same bloody thing But again, that's just human nature. You can ignore those people and keep posting positive stuff, or just read other thread. Or forum. And use can always ignore somebody temporarily if you feel like they're dragging a thread down, or post something positive to try and balance things out!

Ultimately, Illegitimi non carborundum (Don't let the bastards grind you down).

StudioES

Yeah, I like to stay positive these days and the forum seems fine to me. A lot of people have moved on from this type of community. Or never started in the first place.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@michael_m said:

@Gavinski said:
About this place being cliquey, I don't think I agree. If questions get ignored it's more likely because no one knows the answer or has an opinion and the once things slip into the second page it's easy for them to get overlooked. Bumping a thread you started that didn't get answers might make ppl pay attention again. But sure people get attached to the people they regularly interact with, and banter with them in a way they won't with strangers, that's definitely normal I reckon!

I think I have to disagree with that too. I find myself responding to people completely randomly and without much concern of whether they have long tenure here or not. It just doesn’t seem like that occurs here, and certainly not compared to other forums.

Same here. I lack time and patience to read every thread and listen to every upload. I drop in almost at random, or into threads with titles that catch my eye.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@OscarSouth said:
I check here now and then but over the years I got experienced enough at coding as a hobby to pick up a day job in that field and so now I have to think about code all day then run out to gigs/rehearsals rather than getting up at 10:30 and messing around with music tech until going out to play gigs for money in the evenings. Playing and releasing more original and creative music than ever though so not all bad

Prague a couple of weeks ago:

Good to know you’re still in the world and thriving, amigo.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@knewspeak said:

@michael_m said:

@timforsyth said:
Personally I enjoy it more since the off topic stuff was parked.

Yes! It didn’t really have any positive benefits here, and there are plenty of other places online if anyone wants to have that type of discussion.

It’s definitely better when people don’t start posting their opinions on non-music related things.

Positive benefits, I would argue differently, perhaps in time the reality reveals itself, eyes are opened.

The universe is a grand orchestration played across the broadest scale.

And we may not even have free will.

Luxthor

I'm a very visual type of person, so I use images, gifs, and screenshots regularly. Does anyone have a problem with this or think it’s excessive? Because my intention was not to alienate forum members but to spread joy and happiness! 😂

HotStrange

@Luxthor said:
I'm a very visual type of person, so I use images, gifs, and screenshots regularly. Does anyone have a problem with this or think it’s excessive? Because my intention was not to alienate forum members but to spread joy and happiness! 😂

I’m all for it personally. I’m really visual as well. And I’ll always vote yes for Ren and Stimpy 😂

wim

knewspeak

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@knewspeak said:

@michael_m said:

@timforsyth said:
Personally I enjoy it more since the off topic stuff was parked.

Yes! It didn’t really have any positive benefits here, and there are plenty of other places online if anyone wants to have that type of discussion.

It’s definitely better when people don’t start posting their opinions on non-music related things.

Positive benefits, I would argue differently, perhaps in time the reality reveals itself, eyes are opened.

The universe is a grand orchestration played across the broadest scale.

And we may not even have free will.

The future isn’t set in stone, only jelly.

cyberheater

This is the friendliest forum I know and most people here are super supportive and helpful and it’s really appreciated.

Butterfrog

I can't speak about the entirety of the forum but speaking for myself: i find my vibe to be an absolute delight.

klownshed

@Luxthor said:
I'm a very visual type of person, so I use images, gifs, and screenshots regularly. Does anyone have a problem with this or think it’s excessive? Because my intention was not to alienate forum members but to spread joy and happiness! 😂

I hate the gifs. Always have. But that doesn’t mean I want them banned. (Well I do want them banned but they’re not illegal yet so feel free to continue using them whilst I continue my quest to have them banned by the Supreme Court of internet forums).