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iPad Air 2 arrived here at Wooji Juice yesterday afternoon, I haven't had time to try out any particularly arcane Audiobus multi-app setups with it — I've been busy using it for its intended purpose, which is testing out my own apps — and because I'm busy shipping updates to the App Store I won't be able to try out any particular configs for you, sorry in advance. But, when running apps standalone, it's been working flawlessly so far, with the apps I've tried it with:
When running through Audiobus/IAA, I did manage to force some crackle, by loading up a really, really heavy duty patch into Mitosynth and going nuts with the polyphony. It was fine standalone, so I don't know if that's just because of GarageBand + Audiobus also running in the background, or if there's something about IAA on iOS 8.x that's slowing things down, but ... to be fair ... it was running 336 oscillators by the time I got crackle (12 polyphonic voices * 4 simultaneous waveforms * 7x unison on every single one), plus filters, plus automation, so, you know... not bad.
Standalone, it was perfect at 672 oscillators, which is the most Mitosynth will currently allow on an iPad Air 2. It might be capable of going higher.
Wait... stop the press... I just remembered each of those oscs is stereo. Which basically means running the osc twice. So... effectively double those numbers. 672 oscs under IAA, 1344 standalone. :P
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with iPad Air 2.
By the way, regarding 3x multicore... you're probably not going to see much improvement in apps over 2x multicore, except when running apps simultaneously (and even then, depends on how Apple are deciding core affinity for threads connected to IAA). It could lead to better stability when the app is doing other non-audio tasks at the same time as playing audio, though.
The reason is that to get better performance out of multicore, you need to run on multiple threads. And all audio apps run on multiple threads, by definition, because Apple force the UI to run on the main thread, and CoreAudio itself runs on a separate thread. So going from 1 core to 2 gives an immediate improvement as the UI can be on one core while the audio engine is on another.
But with 3 or more cores... the app itself can decide to run additional threads, and for something like a DAW it would definitely make sense to do so (for example, while "freezing" a track), but for a softsynth where latency is important, spinning up an extra thread to take advantage of the extra core, might not make sense because of the overhead of then shipping the audio from that extra thread, back to the CoreAudio thread to be mixed in.
So, you can use the extra core, and you'll get higher overall throughput, but at the cost of latency. Like I say, for various DAW-type tasks, not a problem, but for a softsynth, maybe not worth it? (I haven't run tests on this though, just speculation). Which isn't to say that extra core is useless, it can be busy doing other stuff, like, say, compressing a performance recording and saving it out, or running other background apps, or all sorts of other background tasks, it's just the audio engine that might not see the benefit.
I think ios8 iPad Air is the same, haven't used ab2 in a while so I just tried to get ab2, Cubasis, Alchemy and ISEM into a basic multi route with 2 tracks in cubasis and all I experienced was a 15min headache followed by closing all apps down and thinking wtf.
once I introduced iSEM the midi to Alchemy just stopped working and then the sound went completely, what a dissapointment.....iPad Air 2.....hmmmm.....
I think we need another 6months of development to iron out some wrinkles in app cohesion maybe....
i don't think its an ipad air 2 issue,
im running apps standalone fine on the mini retina with 8.1,
but I do sometimes get some little crackles (little dropouts) in bigger setups (3 lines) with ab that where fine under 7.x
it gets specialy bad when I switch to the ab app - this also happened under 7.x
I was talking to michael about it and i thought ab 2.1.6 did fix it but it didn't (or maybe it did under 7.x ?, i can't tell 'cause i switched to 8 in the meantime), I did just send michael an email ...
all that said: its not so bad that its unworkable ...
Just axin'...
Has someone tried Thor? The Arturia synths?
For the record, I never said that this is an iPad Air 2 issue. It's clearly a software problem between Apple and Audiobus (and many of the synth apps, except Canis's, apparently). A lot of people had hoped that the new hardware specs would render many of these problems moot. We were wrong. I'm not a programmer. Just a lowly, you know, CUSTOMER. @Canis, I'm glad you've had a different experience. However, some of us spent a lot of time creating our "arcane" Audiobus combinations and got used to them, you know, WORKING. I've been at this for two years. I have spent thousands of dollars. I have released three iPad recordings. I have built a decent following for what I do. Why should I, and others like me, have to be put through this? We had a system that worked. Now that system is broken. And there's no fix in sight. Again, @Canis, I'm glad your stuff is working. And while I own all of your synths, they aren't my go-to instruments. And before you say to just switch what I do to accommodate the situation (and presumably only play Wooji Juice synths), why should I, as a customer, have to do that? Why should it be six weeks into this mess with no fix? I am not optimistic that one is coming any time soon. No, this is a disaster. The sooner the industry admits and accepts that, and lays out what is being done to fix it, the sooner we lowly customers will start to feel better about things.
I'm sure the Air 2 is a great machine, and I am confident that the majority of the issues will all be resolved in time, but it makes no sense to rush into getting an Air 2 if iOS8 is still glitchy. My Air 1 still has iOS7 and while even that isn't perfect, it seems more stable than iOS8 for the apps I use. Having a new Air 2 sitting around waiting for iOS/app updates for an extended period of time while I continue to use my Air 1 makes little sense.
So for me it's really all about the timeline at this point. Have the audio processing issues in iOS8 been identified? How long will it take to correct the issues in iOS8, get the iOS update out to users, and devs to update their apps to be compatible with the latest iOS (as needed)?
@Sebastian - does your contact at Apple or anyone else on the inside have any sort of approximate time estimation that you can share? Are we talking weeks, months, or longer?
Regarding Cruise
Don't feed the bear. We had a guy like this about a year ago and he got canned. Ignore negative behavior.
I (was planning) on an Ipad air2 at the years end but will have to see if this is fixed at that time or not. I am on an older ipad mini w/ios 7 something or other and it is working decent so I will just stick with my current set up until the bugs are fixed.
@AdamMatza1967 I've no clue why you're venting at Wooji. If you want to lay your issues at anyone's feet it should be Craig Federighi's at Apple. Even as a dev Wooji is just as much of a peon in Apple's eyes as the rest of their customers. I understand the frustration, but you have the wrong target. And, it has squat to do with "industry acceptance" of the issues, it has everything to do with "Apple's acceptance" of them.
That said, I'm heading out to the Apple store this morning to pick up an Air 2, so maybe in a few hours I'll have the same wildly unfocused anger as you.
@Ringleader it has already been mentioned by Sebastian. The answer was "few months" so I'd say just sit back, relax and keep doing what you're doing.
I see no wildly unfocused aner there @AQ808. Statements of facts maybe... Valid questions. Touch of irony perhaps. Also @Canis did indicate he had crackle with Audiobus as @AdamMatza1967 indicated he was directing the issue towards - Apple+Audiobus concerns. Now I'll put my apron away ;-)
@supadom said:
I must have missed that, thanks. I'll be sending that thing back as soon as it arrives then.
@AQ808, I reread what I wrote and I don't see it as venting toward Wooji. I also don't think my anger is unfocused. If this is, in fact, all Apple's fault, perhaps the developers should spell it out for us. Not in an accusatory way, but in a factual way. Right now, we are all pretty much in the dark, hoping for a solution that seems many months away. In what other industry is it acceptable for products to stop working for months at a time?
Did u try the hard reset?
If you rely on an instrument that you know in and out and need for work you don´t sell and get an updated version of that instrument. You keep the one you know and need and get the the updated one as an addition.
Pain arises when you start wishing for something to be different than it is.
Every major OS update people are getting startled when running into problems.
Of course it would be nice to get information so we can plan accordingly.
Just don´t rush out of your working setup and get angry at the world for not supplying info fast enough because in reality you´re just get mad at the person who was getting you into this situation in the first place: yourself.
Now, would be interesting to know how many Gadgettracks the air 2 can handle.
If all goes well i will be able to deliver to data tomorrow.
I agree that waiting for a fix of ios 8 prior to ordering a new ipad air 2 would be prudent at this point. If it aint broke don't fix it and save all the frustration.
This iOS update situation seems and feels different than any other previous updates. I'm worried that by Apple interfering with the direct contact link that audio apps used to use to communicate audio information, for the protection of our data, iOS8 may have seriously harmed iOS music. Especially when 8.1 was expected to supply some relief to issues, which it apparently has not. My gut is telling me to bail, so that's what I'm going to do, at least for the time being. Good luck fellas.
@dreamrobe Please do let us know how you get on. The anxious data set is somewhat small at this point. Understandably. Like it or not, patience is the issue currently, if you can afford to be patient, if not then frustration mounts. Again, understandably.
@lala, yes, I did.
Tim Webb of discchord posted this rather troubling comment on the FB iPad Musician's group:
"As much frustration as you guys are feeling I am feeling it twice as much. Like you I am experiencing all manner of weird problems lately, but unlike you I know exactly what the problem is... And I can't talk about it. I could spell it all out in about 3 paragraphs, but I dare not say a single word because I am under a pile of Non-Disclosure Agreements that would have me sued into oblivion. That is why developers, usually quite active here, are not saying anything either. The bad news: it's really bad, and it will take a long while to sort out. The good news: once it is sorted out, we should have a few years of solid reliability. There is some future proofing in both the cause of these problems and the cure. Nothing you guys can do will change that, but you can make Apple aware of your problems and maybe - just maybe - they will take your experiences into account before they shake up the foundation of what is now being built. I like the idea of a video to document your problems. Or multiple videos! Because I know what I know I cannot make the video myself, but I can repost anything in the public as news... And will do so gladly!"
^ yikes! Thanks for posting that here. And thanks to Tim for at least letting us know there is an elephant in the room (although I think most of us had suspected it was there, given the stink...)
@dreamrobe, I did wait. I kept iOS 7.1.2. What we weren't told was to not update the apps. Once I started updating the apps in iOS 7.1.2, things started going haywire. So, in desperation, I updated to iOS 8. That was even worse.
So, I went out and bought a new iPad Air with iOS 7.1.2 on it and loaded older versions of the IPAs (the apps) and that worked. Briefly. Then that started to go haywire (@musicinclusive had the same issues, as have others).
So, then what? I had a release party that was planned for months and I played an abbreviated set (and still had crashes in the midst of it). So, now I was faced with no viable alternatives. Nothing was working. So I hoped that the new iPad Air 2 might iron out some of the problems with its better specs. In hindsight, that was wishful thinking.
Those in the know have told me that this problem is far worse than we realize and is not going to be solved any time soon.
This is the reality. So, in summary, short of being clairvoyant and knowing that this was going happen (and not touching a single app since July), I have done everything possible to make this work.
The reality is that iOS music making is broken and we don't know when it will be fixed. We don't know exactly what's wrong and only have vague ideas about what it might be.
Period.
@dreamrobe, I'd also add that someone in the iPad Musician Facebook group specifically asked (a couple of months before iOS 8 was released) if the apps being updated to 8 would cause any problems for those who stick with 7. A member of the AB team replied that the new SDK was fully backwards compatible and that users on 7 would not notice that the apps (including AB) had been updated.
That turned out to be wrong. In a big way.
Since the App Store now stores previous versions of apps, mainly for older devices, why don't they allow us to choose to download a previous version (without IPAs) when the current version of the app has issues?
@Ringleader, that is a GREAT question.
@AdamMatza1967 - As the person who asked that question, I will say (as has been noted elsewhere and I think you agree), that as I've discussed that issue subsequently with the AB team there was genuine expectation and hope among them when that was stated that that was indeed going to be the case. i.e. it would be OK to update apps still on 7.1.2. - and so, many did. I take your comment about it being wrong in a big way therefore as simply a statement of that fact (i.e. not as a criticism of the AB team - who I think in all fairness expected things to be an easier road than it has been).
The problem seems to be that everyone's expectations have been stymied here - by what Apple is doing and has done in changing things both with 8 in view (and thus even affecting updated apps on 7.1.2) and now that 8 has arrived - on 8 in reality.
@Canis: Thank you very much, that was the things i wanted to know. Indeed i would really love to have multi core support for extrem heavy patches. I sometimes have cracks and drops also in stand alone mode (but i drive everything to thre limit...;) on my Air but "normal" users should have no trouble here. Would it be possible to make kind of an on/off button switch for multi core support. I know it works for desktops but maybe that's different thing.
In general i'm still a bit curious if all this audio problems will be solved in the next few weeks/month since gaming, editing photo/video and social media is where the consumers are. The time for a real "pro" audio iPad is here.
Given the current circumstances, I wonder if we could petition Apple to enable downloading of previous versions of apps, and if we are really lucky, a special exception to re-download iOS7.1.2 for music users so we could at least have working iPads for music while we wait (hope?) for this to be fixed.
If all is true with iOS8 being as broken as it is being made out to be, and if Apple is truly aware of what iOS8 has done to mobile music production, I'd say we might have a shot at this. Keep in mind that commercial advertising iOS devices as pro music solutions and Tim Cook tweeting about the Loopy app on the TS as being "magical". This is huge leverage if you ask me.
My only concern would be the example that Adam provided where previous versions of apps started going haywire also. There is still no explanation for and would not be a solution for that.
Seeing what was quoted from Tim Webb above as well is interesting. It may well be that it will be some considerable time before this settles down. That's what some have been saying in the face of the "don't worry - be happy" kind of responses along the way in the past few weeks in various posts. If people have stayed on 7.1.2 with older ipa's (or reverted them to older versions from backups) then, mostly, the can "be happy" and carry on making iOS music the same way they were before.
If they have been caught in the "updated apps but not 7.1.2 but I can't go back to older ipas" or "updated to 8 - now what - I'm still having problems?" vallies - then they may well have a hard time of it - and what they are able to do effectively on iOS in terms of music making may well take a significant hit until this does get sorted out.
Apple: we need to hear from you about how you will help...!