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Comments
@syrupcore said:
Just for a rough comparison, on iPad 3 (known for being a bit underpowered even in its day) it supports, very approximately, half as many oscs as the Air 2. That was just a quick check, not a detailed benchmark. Also, that was on iOS 7.1.2. (The Air 2 was on 8.1 of course, since it ships with it.)
With regard to "whatever else might be going on", I have no information, NDA'd or otherwise, and don't know what stuff Tim is referring to.
All I know is that I just work to make the best apps I can, and follow the recommended best practices for IAA/AB/etc as best I can, and try to do the right thing by customers as best I can.
I'm pretty sure most developers (especially the smaller indie ones) do the same, but some of them only get to work on their apps part-time. And we've had a lot of iOS changes thrown at us recently that we have to deal with. And there's also the issue that, as soon as you start to try joining two apps together, Apple steps in between them to keep a watchful eye on things.
If you listen to stuff like the Debug podcast, where they interview a lot of ex-Apple employees like Don Melton (created Safari) and Nitin Ganatra (formerly Apple's director of iOS Apps) and hear them talk about their ethos at Apple, it's clear that they're also just trying to do best by their customers.
But, they have hundreds of millions of customers, with competing interests, and sometimes "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and, unfortunately, we're often "the few". This is, of course, frustrating, and I completely understand if you're pissed off, and I'm definitely not trying to tell any musicians that "they're doing it wrong". Just trying to explain that Apple are not doing it just to mess with you. It's mostly because they're concerned about security. If they screw that up, the mess could potentially be huge enough to be visible from the ISS :P
One of the main ways they handle security is to keep apps from interfering with each other, setting up strict barriers between them. AudioCopy and Audiobus have always been a bit at odds with that Apple goal, and while there are certainly folks at Apple who understand and approve of the features (AB got added to GarageBand before IAA, remember!), from a big-picture perspective they really pushed the boundaries of what's allowed.
And both used techniques that later got shut down as part of an Apple security/privacy sweep, and had to be rewritten to use different techniques approved by Apple. In AudioCopy's case, I believe (again, remember, this is just speculation — the Retronyms folks know better than I do, obviously) that the battery usage some folks have seen, is a side-effect of this. Please forgive me if I guessed wrong. In Audiobus' case, this has involved adapting it to use IAA, which is probably less efficient than "Audiobus classic" due to extra security precautions likely to be in IAA.
If you're wondering why Apple is so paranoid about security, consider the following:
Anyway... this all just by way of trying to offer some background. I think developers (inside or outside of Apple) are trying to do the right thing, but it sometimes makes a mess for us. Not trying to offend anyone or tell them to ditch their workflow or anything.
@Canis Very reasonable backstory/overview. But, they have hundreds of millions of customers, with competing interests, and sometimes "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and, unfortunately, we're often "the few".
They've done a clever job retaining the 'plucky little guy' persona, but those days are long gone...which doesn't mean their essential ethos has changed, but the reality of the numbers and product reach (viz security et. al.) will force compromises that are inevitable but clash with the purist brand (and users
.
Odd, iOS8 strikes me as promoting app crosstalk more than any other iOS version in history. With the health kit stuff, user keyboards, using other photo app's filters in the default camera app, etc.
Is that maybe what happened here? Apple integrated an new app-to-app communication system and required audio apps to follow it too? Wouldn't really account for apps no longer working in standalone mode though...
I feel that Apple were too quick in releasing iOS8. It was a rushed release which resulted in all the bugs and shit that we have to experience. Apple should of really given iOS7 another few minor updates and given iOS8 the green light when it was ready and bug free but they didn't. Shame on you Apple!
Apple should start signing iOS7 again so us iOS musicians can go back to an OS that works and it would be great for the iPad Air 2.
@Artmuzz said:
During a conversation where I was explaining the iOS 8/music issues to someone, I looked up the pace of iOS releases/updates on Wikipedia. It was breathtaking. Lately it's been a new version every year. That's crazy to me.
I strongly suggest contacting Apple and complaining so they fix it. They faster we do this, the sooner it will be fixed.
Well, I've given it a college try, but I'm pretty much out of ideas on how to compensate for these issues. Short of starting a downgrade revolution and/or a petition to Apple, it really seems like a try it and see if it works type of situation and if not, wait it out until future updates come through. Bum deal for sure, especially with the new shiny device tempting all of us like the devil in the garden of Eden. I finally get the reason for the name Apple.
@Audiojunkie said:
I'd be definitely less worried if the problem was in some way caused by our AB crew, they're always so good at sorting things out.
Thanks for the clarification guys.
Hello
This site is very helpful thanks!
Question: Are there other iOS music production sites?
thanks!
the only way i can see complaining to apple is via their forums. there's no way to get anybody of substance on the phone. it's looking like we are going to have to suck on this until apple is good and ready to fix it.
@Nubus said:
musicappblog.com, discchord.com, synthtopia.com, palmsounds.net
@Ringleader said:
Sort-of. It has more integration features than ever before, yes. But, in fact, even in iOS 8, apps don't get to talk to each other. Instead, they get to provide extensions that are separately sandboxed and connected via iOS. So instead of:
Host App <--> Plugin App
it's more like
Host App <--(iOS)--> Plugin Extension <--(iOS)--> Plugin-supplying App
You might be right about that. Yeah, all of the new integration features use XPC ("Cross-Process Communication"). XPC is great! Buuuuttttt it probably wasn't designed with the bandwidth and latency needs of realtime audio production in mind. Now, I have no idea whether IAA was written (or rewritten) to use XPC, but if it was, that might explain it.
With Air 2? Or iOS 8? With standalone apps, I haven't encountered problems with the Air 2 myself. iOS 8.0 did have a lot of bugs and while hopefully 8.1 brings improvements, iOS 8 generally has had a lot of "hidden gotchas" that developers had to address. (I said on Twitter last month that I kinda hope Apple has a bit of a "Snow Leopard" year with iOS 9, concentrates on fixing bugs and giving us a chance to catch up with everything they've been changing. Apparently I'm not the only one!)
Thanks again for your posts @canis. Good insightful stuff.
And, yes please for a Snow Leopard type release. I wonder if Apple can really pull that sort of thing off any more. With the world down their throats about continued growth and growth coming from wiz-bang-wow-new-want, it's almost hard to remember/imagine how happy mac users were when they said 'Leopard is great. We're just going to make it better this year.' Snow Leopard might still be my favorite desktop OS.
Well I am fairly certain that my purchases are not the only ones they are losing until this is fixed. I am pretty happy with my current ios set up and the apps I have compared to spending 6 or 7 hundred dollars for an ipad that no longer does what I need it to.
There is no point in being mad but instead it is time to consider other options.
@Canis - Even if a lot of this is somewhat speculative at this point, you provide valuable insight and have a clear way of explaining it. Thanks for taking the time to do so.
@Ringleader said:
Agreed. I had been hoping that developers would chime in, insofar as they can/feel comfortable doing so, so thanks @canis!
At least Yosemite works good so far. IOS is a real pain for connecting apps together now. It's moving too fast and not in a good way yet. Running apps stand alone there is no problem but then i doesn't need the 2GB ram. Seems my iPad Air will take another year.
@stride said:
Hahahaha!!! I seriously got a good laugh out of that!!
Here we go again
.
Already reported I doubt it will be here for very long lol.
You can delete the guy from the forum, but you can't delete the forum from the guy. I predict that Seb will have his work cut out for him with this one.
you know, you guys could make it much easier on @Sebastian by ignoring He Who Shall Not (or Cannot?) be Named's posts.
@papertiger said:
You're right, first one was funny to me but I'm over it. Carry on...
I still say an ignore button for pesky users is the way to go but time will tell. But the foul mouthed ranting from the other night could be very bad for a forum like this. It could not be avoided and why should a music production forum have to be x rated really?
@canis, thanks! insightful stuff.
Trolls come and go.
For those who haven't see Tim Webb's posts, I've copied them and I am pasting them here for everyone to gather what info they can from them:
As much frustration as you guys are feeling I am feeling it twice as much. Like you I am experiencing all manner of weird problems lately, but unlike you I know exactly what the problem is... And I can't talk about it. I could spell it all out in about 3 paragraphs, but I dare not say a single word because I am under a pile of Non-Disclosure Agreements that would have me sued into oblivion. That is why developers, usually quite active here, are not saying anything either. The bad news: it's really bad, and it will take a long while to sort out. The good news: once it is sorted out, we should have a few years of solid reliability. There is some future proofing in both the cause of these problems and the cure. Nothing you guys can do will change that, but you can make Apple aware of your problems and maybe - just maybe - they will take your experiences into account before they shake up the foundation of what is now being built. I like the idea of a video to document your problems. Or multiple videos! Because I know what I know I cannot make the video myself, but I can repost anything in the public as news... And will do so gladly!
I wouldn't bother devs with it, because Apple isn't listening to them. They have no influence at all with Apple, and very little contact. What we're experiencing now cannot be changed by anyone, so all we can do now is make Apple aware of our grievances so that they do not rock the boat in the future. Make 2014 memorable to Apple as the year they pissed off a lot of long-time customers, and may think twice before they do anything to jeopardize what is now being built.
I thought Sebastian got rid of that guy! @Stride @Sebastian