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Drambo generative question
Hi folks!
I try to get my head around generative pattern creation in Drambo.
From a bit of reading, I think I might need/want something like :
- noise generator
- s&h
- clock generator
- cv quantizer
- an auv3 synth
What I want is to be able to press play and that it goes on playing all alone. Then I want to add some lfos to add variations and movement.
But I can't get any sound out of that... I need some help with the missing pieces and the patching.
Thanks in advance,
🪷
Comments
I suspect you want random CV-values run through the cv-quantizer to get random quantized notes into your Auv3, right?
If so: noise into sample and hold,
clock generator into the gate input of the s&h,
S%h into the quantizer
And here's what's missing, you need a note generator with the quantizer on the pitch input, the clock generator on the gate input and something into velocity (for static velocity a knob will do).
@tyslothrop1 is bang on.
There are many ways. Here's one bare-bones approach:
Clock Generator lets you set the trigger frequency. The S&H LFO avoids needing to use a noise source. Velocity into the Note Generator isn't required if constant velocity of 127 is OK.
This is where the MATH modules can get really interesting as well. For instance, two LFOs going into an ADD as your pitch source can give you a unique interaction. The SCALE+OFFSET module is very handy here if you want to dial in a range for your signal.
Oh, and instead of a Noise generator, try using an Audio input (with headphones ofc)
The meta randomizer is your friend. Try to get it to modulate an Euclidean sequencer (steps and fill) for instant random gates in sync and interesting
Use the cv quantizer again fed by random to get notes in the scale you set (which could be drums or melodies)
There’s so many ways, really, I could be here for days.
And don’t get me started on krell patches
Cheers @timfromtheborder
To add some randomness to the triggers you could add a Bernoulli gate.
And instead of a clock generator you could use all sorts of things, for example
A Euclidean sequencer followed by a midi2cv (just connect the gate out)
A midi sequencer plus midi2cv (for manually recorded rhythms or midifiles you have lying around, or files from Ableton's groove pool)
An LFO maybe with the frequency modulated by something else.
A transient detector for the trigger signal, fed from something like a Flexi sampler with a breakbeat loaded can be a fun way to have groove driven generative patches too.
Now I have to try an envelope follower with an amen break modulating a meta randomizer modulating an euclidean modulating a random note generator modulating a BBD modulating a vocal synth
What kind of result do you want, @oscillotus?
Drums?
Melody?
Chords?
I’d reply:
Yes
i'd reply
no!
😄
Maybe this one can be a start: It lets you combine different hand-drawn rhythm and melody shapes to create a lot of different melodies. Feel free to add your own rhythms and pitch shapes.
I chose this method to limit generated riffs to a range that might be considered somewhat musical, unlike completely random generators.
https://patchstorage.com/fuguetron/
Haha, nice one Bernoulli
Oh I missed that one, probably in for a treat!
Thanks for the input y'all! Especially for taking the time with the drawings. Will experiment a bit with all the different options and probably come back with more questions 🤪
I'd write a bot to reply for me.
I had more melody in mind but will surely check out drums and chords as well!
Yeah I went a bit on patchstorage, but I think I need yo try to understand the basic stuff before I'm able to understand how the patches work. It's a bit of like chinese for me when I open them up!
If I follow @timfromtheborder's setup, I'd replace the clock generator with this?
😆
Here’s a cycling envelope with an end of cycle (eoc) pulse. This emulates one row of a Buchla 281 with the eoc patched back into the trigger input. The button/add bit is just to inject a pulse to start the cycle.
This is at the root of Todd Barton’s famous krell patch. The idea is that you sound a note with the envelope then use the eoc pulse to trigger randomness for the next note. In the krell patch, you would also trigger random values with the eoc pulse and use those to modulate the AD times so you get a different cycle each time rather than a lfo-ish structure. There’s definitely a lot of stuff to read regarding the patch, and a simple s+h doesn’t quite emulate the distribution of a Buchla 266, but it’s a fun driver for a generative patch that can give you more to think about.
That's a complete patch that takes a little bit different approach than @timfromtheborder 's. We cross-posted, so there's no relation between my post and his.
Okay. Is there a way to get the Flexi Sampler to be continuously triggered without using the sequencer?
Wow thanks, lots of infos, I'll surely come back to this in a few days!
Got it, placing a knob before it and linking it to the gate!
Sure. These settings will play the loop as soon as playback is running.
You might need to adjust the "Sync" length to match the length of your loop.
Here’s a little primer on the concepts that go into this stuff.
There are two protocols in play here. CV/gate and MIDI.
MIDI is a wrapper for a bunch of information, but all you need to worry about are three things:
Velocity is the simplest, because you can just set it to maximum (127), so let’s set it aside.
So you’ve got Gate and Pitch. Gate determines when and how long a note plays. Pitch determines the note value.
So where does CV/gate fit in? Well, Drambo is based on modular synthesis, which uses CV/gate instead of MIDI. When you break MIDI into its separate components, you get CV signals.
Open Drambo and create a MIDI to CV project. Add an Oscilloscope module, and connect it to the different outputs on a MIDI to CV module. When you press a key on the keyboard, you’ll see what kind of signal you get. The baseline in the Oscilloscope is 0 — everything above is positive, and below is negative. It also matches the note C2.
So if you press C2, and you have velocity on and you press it at half strength, the MIDI to CV module produces three signals:
And if you press C4 at around 100 velocity, you’ll get these signals:
You’ll notice that:
So these are the three signals that you can put into a MIDI Note Generator module to produce MIDI.
The cool thing about modular synthesis, and CV/gate, is that anything that produces a sound signal can be used as an input. There’s no difference between using noise, or an LFO, or an oscillator, or a Flexi sampler, or an Audio input. It’s all sound and it all produces a CV signal.
As for producing a Gate signal: any signal from 0 (or under) to above 0 can trigger a gate. And some signals that don’t behave like this normally can be modified with a module like Scale+Offset, or Invert.
So all you need to produce MIDI notes is a source for triggering Gates, and a source for setting Pitch. You can use the same source for both, or different sources. And of course, you can use a third source to set Velocity. Modules like Knobs and Sliders emit constant signals, so you can also use these to connect to Pitch and Velocity.
Keep in mind that for a Gate signal to work, it has to open AND close. So the signal must go from 0 (or below) to above, and back below. If it starts above 0 the gate won’t open; if it never goes back to 0 the gate won’t close.
How a CV quantizer works is simple as well: as you know, a Pitch signal is no different from a sine wave. But a note has a specific value (or voltage). So if you are putting a constantly increasing signal into a CV quantizer, it will turn any signal that doesn’t match the settings into the nearest pitch that does match.
Here I am writing a whole novel when I should be watching the World Series. I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have. And I hope everything here is correct, I’ve only been learning about this stuff for a couple years myself so it’s pretty fresh, but I’m not 100% confident I’ve got it all down. But I hope this helps.
Ha! I appreciate it! Here I am learning Drambo in front of the game. Baseball and music making is just a great combo.
Will have more thorough read tomorrow. MIDI, velocity and gate are not unknown to me, but I still need to learn how to use them properly in a modular environment. And which module does what. And how I need to patch them together. Your help already teached me a lot 🤓
Here’s another sort of classic generative technique that I wanted to try in drambo since I’m also still learning it but coming from a modular background.
Put a unipolar mini lfo set to s+h at 1-2hz into a mini oscillator….generative, right? Also annoying
Ok, so put a cv quantizer between the lfo and oscillator and tap in your secret chord…slightly more pleasing, but you might like to vary it a bit.
Luckily, drambo has the handy pitch(oct,semi,fine) module…so put that between the cv quantizer and mini oscillator and tune the sequence around.
That was just too much…..and that handy module doesn’t have mod ins….so use the morph module to offset semitones to a musically-pleasing interval and hit the morph knob with a square wave. Now you have a chord sequence that changes to another chord sequence, and it looks like this:
So now turn down your volume and crank the first lfo to max…..exciting stuff, but yank that oscillator out of the patch before people start looking at you funny. This is the classic modular technique….you now have something that mimics two sequencers with preprogrammed chord values running really fast and swapping between their outputs occasionally. This is a sort of musically-pleasing noise source to yank things from.
Neat, so from here we’ll just use s+h to yank things from that stream, make midi notes out of that, and merge em into a polysynth.
You can do as many of these little blocks as you want.
Square unipolar mini lfo….as Tim pointed out, this is a gate.
S&H module that pulls from the pitch module, AKA our musical noise source, and using the lfo as the gate.
MIDI note generator that pulls from the S&H and also uses the lfo as gate.
It’s nice to rack these up so you can add more and tune the controls a bit.
Then you just merge those with a midi mixer, turn down the lfos in the note generator blocks, turn up the release and verb on the synth, and meditate or whatever. Here’s a screenshot with two note generator blocks into elastic……very zen.
I’ve strayed a bit from my drambo learning journey (damn you mirack!) but bookmarking this thread for when I come back. Lotta great info in here! Future thanks to everyone who contributed 👍