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Moog is now part of inMusic: UPDATE 😞

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Comments

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    Sorry for the misunderstanding

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @NeuM said:
    Something people still don’t understand about manufacturing in China: If Moog was indeed having most of their printed circuit board components pre-populated, that information had to be reported to a Federal agency in the US and it would have to be indicated on the final Moog product, either on the boxes they were packed in or on the PCBs themselves. If some brave person opens their Moog they’d likely see this inside the case.

    Also, the factories in China can fabricate ANY level of quality, as long as a company is willing to pay for it AND as long as a company is willing to constantly stay on their toes and check what they are receiving from the factories. In my day, it wasn’t uncommon for corners to be cut and substitutions made by manufacturers without warning all the time. Fraud and cheating was rampant.

    Reminds me of when Gibson got busted for selling MiJ guitars as Made in US. (And that’s not even Gibson’s most evil crime!)

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @NeuM said:
    Something people still don’t understand about manufacturing in China: If Moog was indeed having most of their printed circuit board components pre-populated, that information had to be reported to a Federal agency in the US and it would have to be indicated on the final Moog product, either on the boxes they were packed in or on the PCBs themselves. If some brave person opens their Moog they’d likely see this inside the case.

    Also, the factories in China can fabricate ANY level of quality, as long as a company is willing to pay for it AND as long as a company is willing to constantly stay on their toes and check what they are receiving from the factories. In my day, it wasn’t uncommon for corners to be cut and substitutions made by manufacturers without warning all the time. Fraud and cheating was rampant.

    Reminds me of when Gibson got busted for selling MiJ guitars as Made in US. (And that’s not even Gibson’s most evil crime!)

    That would be never changing the angle of the headstock.

  • wimwim
    edited October 2023

    .

  • wimwim
    edited October 2023

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @wim said:

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    @Gavinski said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @cyberheater said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @cyberheater said:

    @Tarekith said:

    @Luxthor said:

    @cyberheater said:

    >

    I disagree. Vid is basically shaming people that bought Behringer clones at £300 rather then the £5000 for the Moog equivalent. Pretty horrible stuff really.

    I didn’t watch the whole video, this thing is terrible if you speak the truth. Everything around us is basically a copy of something else, even the universe. ;)

    That's not at all what he said. In fact he specifically said he understands why some people like Behringer gear and there's nothing wrong with buying it.

    Yeah he does specifically state he understands that why he understands why "some" people by Behringer gear and that there is nothing wrong with that and then goes on to state the exact opposite with comments like how you're buying products manufactured in a dystopian prison complex etc...

    It's cowardly really. If he was being honest he would just say that he doesn't agree with folks buying Behringer gear (which he clearly doesn't going by the YouTube vid) and have done with it. I would be okay with that.

    You are correct in your summary, the same could probably said of quite a lot of consumer products made in China if given scrutiny, but also of some working conditions in the West. Hope you’re feeling better soon btw.

    Talking of products made in China.

    Behringer wasn't the cause of Moog's Demise

    Mike Adams was.

    https://musictech.com/news/industry/moog-ceo-reached-out-to-uli-behringer-to-try-and-sell-company-behringer-claims/#:\~:text=The%20post%20explains%20that%2C%20while,on%20the%20supply%20chain%20side.https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225975 - Will Behringer Devalue Moog?

    As a former employee, I do not find this revelation of Mike Adams trying to sell out the entire company to Behringer before selling to inMusic surprising, at all.

    Some common (very big) misconceptions: Moog products, aside from the old full size Mooger Foogers, the Voyagers, the Model D RIs, and the Modular RIs, were all prepopulated micro component PCBs, shipped from China. Along with the products listed above, everything else was only ever ASSEMBLED in the Asheville 'factory'. When I first started working there, products were actually given a 24 hour burn in period (as most of you will know in electronics, if an outright failure will occur it will most often occur within this 24 hour period), they were properly tested, flagged for flaws or blemishes to be fixed or remedied.

    By the time I left, products routinely were being skipped over the 24 hour burn in process. Blemishes that would have gotten a product rehoused in a new chassis were sent out the door, not as B stock, as A stock just like all the other products that didn't have any blemishes or issues.

    Bonuses were based on a year to year product SALES goal, regardless of production issues (shipments getting lost in Jamaica), or market estimations. If one single line out of the entire production facility did not hit their goal, for the year, NO ONE got bonuses! As I said, regardless of the fact that an entire shipment of Sub 37 boards got 'lost' in Jamaica for months.

    Bob's history is quite the tale, I won't go into all of it right now, and this is not in any way to degrade Bob's accomplishments and engineering feats, but he was no business savant. Not many people know that when he first sold the company to Norlin Musical Instruments he sold the right to use the Moog name. When he came back it was as Big Briar and eventually he got the rights back to use his own name, what a country we live in that allows contracts for that lol.

    After a few years of returning as Moog Music, he got into business with Mike Adams. While Bob was designing and leading the engineering team, Mike was the bean counter in charge of the business side of things. After Bob's death, Bob's interest shares went to his family, which were then sold to Mike Adams. Regardless of selling those shares to Mike, controlling management interests can not be transferred in death, only the financial ownership side.

    A few of you may have heard about the "Employee Owned" bit that was obviously just paid publicity. I was there when it was rolled out. Employees never owned anything, any shares, nothing. Employees were not vested, until the terms were met in the ESOP. The ESOP was just a tax free retirement for Mike Adams, masquerading and plastered everywhere as generosity, what an amazing company.

    That was all bs. The shares were never publicly traded, never available to anyone to cash out, again, until the terms of the ESOP were met and everyone was vested. I would welcome any Employee that was working with Moog during this period that was receiving those lovely letters each year telling you how much fake stock you had and how much money it wasn't actually worth to actually give a value that they were paid out from their "ESOP ownership shares". If anyone received more than $0, I'll actually be surprised. Don't get the ESOP shares and payout conflated with a severance package. That's not what the ESOP was. Those are two different things.

    My main point of making this post is just to say that, the Moog Music that you all did believe in, in terms of people being employed here in the US to put these instruments together and send them to you, was real. A lot of great people worked at Moog. A lot of great people got screwed over by this, all while being sold snake oil that it'd never happen. Unfortunately a lot of the publicity side, the advertising side, was complete bullshit.

    The writing was on the wall though .https://www.npr.org/2018/07/02/625363659/moog-says-chinese-tariffs-may-force-a-move-overseas Anyone who was working at the company when this 'announcement' was made, should have had one hell of a wake up call. Mike never seemed to have had any pride or respect for Bob, or the company, the people, the products. It was all just a business transaction and another way to make money.

    I won't even go into the Moogfest debacle and tale, but, most people have no idea that Mike/Moog just up and cancelled a multiyear contract and is being sued for millions of dollars as a result. Nothing was really what it seemed with the company. https://musictech.com/news/moog-reportedly-being-sued-over-the-cancellation-of-moogfest-2020/

    I know it's kind of a dead horse at this point, but, unfortunately a lot of people were duped by Adams and the advertising/publicity the company used, that goes for the employees working there and the customers buying the products.

    That was magnificent.
    I learned more from your account than from all the articles of the past week (or next week)
    Thanks

    That's not his account. It's a copy and paste of the reddit post linked earlier which was written by someone claiming to be a former moog employee!

    True @Gavinski but the information @cyberheater posted can be at least in part cross checked with the links it references, does this make it 100% accurate, well no of course, as @cyberheater states truth is often nuanced, looking at all available evidence and checking it against other ‘facts’ that’s how we really determine the most reasonable ‘truth’.

    I’m simply correcting @JeffChasteen’s misunderstanding that this was Cyberheater’s account. Nowhere did I mention whether I thought it was true or not. It’s certainly highly interesting and disturbing reading, if true, that’s for sure.

    I just woke up! Seriously!

    Thanks

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @cyberheater said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @cyberheater said:

    @Tarekith said:

    @Luxthor said:

    @cyberheater said:

    >

    I disagree. Vid is basically shaming people that bought Behringer clones at £300 rather then the £5000 for the Moog equivalent. Pretty horrible stuff really.

    I didn’t watch the whole video, this thing is terrible if you speak the truth. Everything around us is basically a copy of something else, even the universe. ;)

    That's not at all what he said. In fact he specifically said he understands why some people like Behringer gear and there's nothing wrong with buying it.

    Yeah he does specifically state he understands that why he understands why "some" people by Behringer gear and that there is nothing wrong with that and then goes on to state the exact opposite with comments like how you're buying products manufactured in a dystopian prison complex etc...

    It's cowardly really. If he was being honest he would just say that he doesn't agree with folks buying Behringer gear (which he clearly doesn't going by the YouTube vid) and have done with it. I would be okay with that.

    You are correct in your summary, the same could probably said of quite a lot of consumer products made in China if given scrutiny, but also of some working conditions in the West. Hope you’re feeling better soon btw.

    Talking of products made in China.

    Behringer wasn't the cause of Moog's Demise

    Mike Adams was.

    https://musictech.com/news/industry/moog-ceo-reached-out-to-uli-behringer-to-try-and-sell-company-behringer-claims/#:\~:text=The%20post%20explains%20that%2C%20while,on%20the%20supply%20chain%20side.https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225975 - Will Behringer Devalue Moog?

    As a former employee, I do not find this revelation of Mike Adams trying to sell out the entire company to Behringer before selling to inMusic surprising, at all.

    Some common (very big) misconceptions: Moog products, aside from the old full size Mooger Foogers, the Voyagers, the Model D RIs, and the Modular RIs, were all prepopulated micro component PCBs, shipped from China. Along with the products listed above, everything else was only ever ASSEMBLED in the Asheville 'factory'. When I first started working there, products were actually given a 24 hour burn in period (as most of you will know in electronics, if an outright failure will occur it will most often occur within this 24 hour period), they were properly tested, flagged for flaws or blemishes to be fixed or remedied.

    By the time I left, products routinely were being skipped over the 24 hour burn in process. Blemishes that would have gotten a product rehoused in a new chassis were sent out the door, not as B stock, as A stock just like all the other products that didn't have any blemishes or issues.

    Bonuses were based on a year to year product SALES goal, regardless of production issues (shipments getting lost in Jamaica), or market estimations. If one single line out of the entire production facility did not hit their goal, for the year, NO ONE got bonuses! As I said, regardless of the fact that an entire shipment of Sub 37 boards got 'lost' in Jamaica for months.

    Bob's history is quite the tale, I won't go into all of it right now, and this is not in any way to degrade Bob's accomplishments and engineering feats, but he was no business savant. Not many people know that when he first sold the company to Norlin Musical Instruments he sold the right to use the Moog name. When he came back it was as Big Briar and eventually he got the rights back to use his own name, what a country we live in that allows contracts for that lol.

    After a few years of returning as Moog Music, he got into business with Mike Adams. While Bob was designing and leading the engineering team, Mike was the bean counter in charge of the business side of things. After Bob's death, Bob's interest shares went to his family, which were then sold to Mike Adams. Regardless of selling those shares to Mike, controlling management interests can not be transferred in death, only the financial ownership side.

    A few of you may have heard about the "Employee Owned" bit that was obviously just paid publicity. I was there when it was rolled out. Employees never owned anything, any shares, nothing. Employees were not vested, until the terms were met in the ESOP. The ESOP was just a tax free retirement for Mike Adams, masquerading and plastered everywhere as generosity, what an amazing company.

    That was all bs. The shares were never publicly traded, never available to anyone to cash out, again, until the terms of the ESOP were met and everyone was vested. I would welcome any Employee that was working with Moog during this period that was receiving those lovely letters each year telling you how much fake stock you had and how much money it wasn't actually worth to actually give a value that they were paid out from their "ESOP ownership shares". If anyone received more than $0, I'll actually be surprised. Don't get the ESOP shares and payout conflated with a severance package. That's not what the ESOP was. Those are two different things.

    My main point of making this post is just to say that, the Moog Music that you all did believe in, in terms of people being employed here in the US to put these instruments together and send them to you, was real. A lot of great people worked at Moog. A lot of great people got screwed over by this, all while being sold snake oil that it'd never happen. Unfortunately a lot of the publicity side, the advertising side, was complete bullshit.

    The writing was on the wall though .https://www.npr.org/2018/07/02/625363659/moog-says-chinese-tariffs-may-force-a-move-overseas Anyone who was working at the company when this 'announcement' was made, should have had one hell of a wake up call. Mike never seemed to have had any pride or respect for Bob, or the company, the people, the products. It was all just a business transaction and another way to make money.

    I won't even go into the Moogfest debacle and tale, but, most people have no idea that Mike/Moog just up and cancelled a multiyear contract and is being sued for millions of dollars as a result. Nothing was really what it seemed with the company. https://musictech.com/news/moog-reportedly-being-sued-over-the-cancellation-of-moogfest-2020/

    I know it's kind of a dead horse at this point, but, unfortunately a lot of people were duped by Adams and the advertising/publicity the company used, that goes for the employees working there and the customers buying the products.

    That was magnificent.
    I learned more from your account than from all the articles of the past week (or next week)
    Thanks

    That's not his account. It's a copy and paste of the reddit post linked earlier which was written by someone claiming to be a former moog employee!

    True @Gavinski but the information @cyberheater posted can be at least in part cross checked with the links it references, does this make it 100% accurate, well no of course, as @cyberheater states truth is often nuanced, looking at all available evidence and checking it against other ‘facts’ that’s how we really determine the most reasonable ‘truth’.

    I’m simply correcting @JeffChasteen’s misunderstanding that this was Cyberheater’s account. Nowhere did I mention whether I thought it was true or not. It’s certainly highly interesting and disturbing reading, if true, that’s for sure.

    I just woke up! Seriously!

    Thanks

    Perils of fast scrolling on social media 😂 👍

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    Another take about guess what…

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @0tolerance4silence said:
    (and if that’s the case - ABF manipulating threads)
    Is it ok for ABF to play politics even when threads flow within the rules itself set?

    I don't understand. Where's the manipulation from ABF? Do you mean community or mods? Your post is showing, it's not hidden or moderated away, it's just that nobody replied. Happens sometimes, that's forum life.

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic

    @Gavinski said:

    @0tolerance4silence said:
    (and if that’s the case - ABF manipulating threads)
    Is it ok for ABF to play politics even when threads flow within the rules itself set?

    I don't understand. Where's the manipulation from ABF? Do you mean community or mods? Your post is showing, it's not hidden or moderated away, it's just that nobody replied. Happens sometimes, that's forum life.

    Psst, he has zero tolerance for silence after all. 😂 (Just goofing a little, no offense meant.)

    Yeah and that indeed is forum life. Sometimes posts go unanswered. I usually say "gentle bump" when bumping an unanswered thread (99% of the times it's a thread I post in Creations lol 😂 ), and then I leave it be.

    And sometimes not getting a reply to a thread is better than a snide reply, so I'd count the silence as a blessing. 🤷‍♂️

    I myself am not interested in hardware synths much (OP-1 Field being the exception of course), so I'm not sure how I'd reply to the above two videos. 🙃 That's just my personal take.

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    I’m actually interested in Labyrinth, if it does what it looked like from the initial leak. I just haven’t had chance to watch the videos yet, hence no reply!

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @0tolerance4silence said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @0tolerance4silence said:
    (and if that’s the case - ABF manipulating threads)
    Is it ok for ABF to play politics even when threads flow within the rules itself set?

    I don't understand. Where's the manipulation from ABF? Do you mean community or mods? Your post is showing, it's not hidden or moderated away, it's just that nobody replied. Happens sometimes, that's forum life.

    What I meant is sometimes threads left to sink to avoid controversy - whoever decides.
    I can see this being a controversial topic for many, but it’s about music/instrument, and it’s only reporting something completely new, so newsworthy imo. I’m not saying manipulation happened in this case, but it seems weird that a brand new synth from the biggest names didn’t attract a single comment - idk.

    Ah, I doubt it tbh, i think people showed loads of interest in Mariana, for example, which also came out after the takeover.

  • reasOnereasOne

    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

  • tubespacetubespace

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @0tolerance4silence said:
    (and if that’s the case - ABF manipulating threads)
    Is it ok for ABF to play politics even when threads flow within the rules itself set?

    ????
    What makes you think something nefarious is going on? Maybe people weren’t interested in watching the video.

    Lots of posts on this forum get no response.

    I don’t know about others , but I am unlikely to watch a video without some sort of explanation as to what it’s about and why it might be of interest.

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @0tolerance4silence said:
    (and if that’s the case - ABF manipulating threads)
    Is it ok for ABF to play politics even when threads flow within the rules itself set?

    I don't understand. Where's the manipulation from ABF? Do you mean community or mods? Your post is showing, it's not hidden or moderated away, it's just that nobody replied. Happens sometimes, that's forum life.

    Psst, he has zero tolerance for silence after all. 😂 (Just goofing a little, no offense meant.)

    Yeah and that indeed is forum life. Sometimes posts go unanswered. I usually say "gentle bump" when bumping an unanswered thread (99% of the times it's a thread I post in Creations lol 😂 ), and then I leave it be.

    And sometimes not getting a reply to a thread is better than a snide reply, so I'd count the silence as a blessing. 🤷‍♂️

    I myself am not interested in hardware synths much (OP-1 Field being the exception of course), so I'm not sure how I'd reply to the above two videos. 🙃 That's just my personal take.

    Of all the bleep bloop fart machines on the market, this one is definitely the Moogiest.

  • yellow_eyezyellow_eyez

    @tubespace said:

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

    FWIW this forum catapulted me into the world of hardware and gear lol opposite effect - had to touch what I virtually experienced

  • wimwim

    @yellow_eyez said:

    @tubespace said:

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

    FWIW this forum catapulted me into the world of hardware and gear lol opposite effect - had to touch what I virtually experienced

    Porn doesn't usually work that way does it?

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    @tubespace said:

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

    I respectfully disagree with your last point. It’s an iOS music forum, and loads of people here combine iPhones and iPads with hardware gear of all kinds, and not just synths. Hence the Hardware category…

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @wim said:

    @yellow_eyez said:

    @tubespace said:

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

    FWIW this forum catapulted me into the world of hardware and gear lol opposite effect - had to touch what I virtually experienced

    Porn doesn't usually work that way does it?

    Only if your first name is Donald. ;)

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @bygjohn said:

    @tubespace said:

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

    I respectfully disagree with your last point. It’s an iOS music forum, and loads of people here combine iPhones and iPads with hardware gear of all kinds, and not just synths. Hence the Hardware category…

    Me to. Maybe the majority of discussion doesn’t involve hardware, but there’s certainly regular discussion of instruments outside of the scope of iOS and MIDI controllers.

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic

    @tubespace said:

    @reasOne said:
    I don’t think theirs a conspiracy. I posted a hardware synth yesterday even tho this is primarily for iOS apps, just because someone out there needs to know it exists! But didn’t expect anyone to really comment or care.. its an iOS forum

    Yes - I have zero interest in purchasing hardware synths - and I'm sure many (if not most) users here feel the same way. All my spare money goes towards apps and midi controllers.

    That's the purpose of this forum

    I'm sure @Michael and @thesoundtestroom are the ones who are to tell us what the purpose of this forum is. You're not the "lord and master" of this forum. Also, this thread is under the "hardware" section, so it is indeed in the appropriate location, not under "general app discussion".

  • yellow_eyezyellow_eyez

    @wim terrible lol

    No but Michael and bygjohn are right, I integrate my hardware with iOS. To me I couldn’t imagine not having them paired

    (Nothing dirty there unless you really make it lol)

  • GrandbearGrandbear

    @0tolerance4silence intriguing videos, I would like to see someone else demoing the synth though. Also: I happened to click on this thread just to see lose some time because its title doesn’t really seem interesting to me, the new product would seem to warrant a new thread.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @yellow_eyez said:
    @wim terrible lol

    No but Michael and bygjohn are right, I integrate my hardware with iOS. To me I couldn’t imagine not having them paired

    (Nothing dirty there unless you really make it lol)

    Same here, my hardware and software are one big happy family! Everything is connected via my Model 24 mixer and MIDI thru devices 🙌

  • wimwim

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @yellow_eyez said:
    @wim terrible lol

    No but Michael and bygjohn are right, I integrate my hardware with iOS. To me I couldn’t imagine not having them paired

    (Nothing dirty there unless you really make it lol)

    Same here, my hardware and software are one big happy family! Everything is connected via my Model 24 mixer and MIDI thru devices 🙌

    So, basically like watching porn with your spouse then. Got it. 👍🏼

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @wim said:

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @yellow_eyez said:
    @wim terrible lol

    No but Michael and bygjohn are right, I integrate my hardware with iOS. To me I couldn’t imagine not having them paired

    (Nothing dirty there unless you really make it lol)

    Same here, my hardware and software are one big happy family! Everything is connected via my Model 24 mixer and MIDI thru devices 🙌

    So, basically like watching porn with your spouse then. Got it. 👍🏼

    😂

  • reasOnereasOne

    All this talk about porn and still no links 😢☠️

  • Jonah66Jonah66

    Hardware and iPads exist in the same univ
    erse 😎

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