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The Sad Reality of Music
If we apply the same notion of "progress" which we associate with technology to music theory, we might simultaneously build institutions which promote the "codified wisdom".
If the current generation are brainwashed into believing that the "codified wisdom" is the root of all music, then they fall pray to being a slave and victim to nostalgia.
In other words, modern music has been strangled by the prescriptive nature of music instruction, and will continue to be unless and until more descriptive instruction practices are developed and promoted.
Also, try not to argue with anyone over 50 regarding the state of music, as they've had at least 50 years of industry brainwashing through Top 10 lists in magazines, fawning documentaries, and pay to play broadcasting, that they have no capacity to come to any conversation regarding music with anything close to an unbiased opinion. The disappointing thing is that nearly all of them believe their opinion is original rather than "industry implanted".
I feel like art really can die if you take it to the internet where every one of these old farts feel entitled to blast anyone doing anything other than what they've been industry brainwashed to believe is "great". The tragedy of the internet is that it has given these entitled shits far more of a voice than they deserve.
If you were a teen in the 90s, then you will understand a certain shift which occurred around 2000. Basically, people would go to coffee shops and all night diners to communicate with others and try to get leads on new information. Without a mobile worldwide internet, aside for hoping that a local bookstore or library would actually cater to the subject I was interested in, the best I could do would be to try and meet someone who could make a suggestion of something to follow up on, such as bands, books, movies, etc...
The fatal flaw with this method was that, without a widespread internet which could be used to verify anything discussed, the result was that I'd get 99% bullshit information, often made up out of thin air, to the 1% quality information. This was a horrible return on investment as it was nearly impossible to separate bullshit from reality until the arrival of the widespread internet in the late 90s/early 00s, so the end result is that I'd be spending my time trying to understand truth from bullshit, and had to be in a bit of a fog of confusion constantly as a result.
Well, this is just a Public Service Announcement to the youth who are not old enough to have visibly witnessed this change in social history:
After the internet, the Opinionated Bullshitters were stripped to what they always in reality were, Opinionated Assholes.
Do whatever you can to keep your musical ambition and art from these people. They are programmed to shit on you.
Try to get into creative musical spaces with people around the same age who haven't been handed down these ignorant attitudes or programmed to have them, or the very rare bird of any age who wasn't one of these assholes in the first place.
Look for constructive and deconstructive spaces instead of obviously destructive ones.
If you ever wonder why older people claim that the internet has lead to a lack of socialization and an increase of personal isolation, keep in mind that many of us stepped into a reality where we were objectively able to separate the bullshitters from those who actually knew what they were talking about, and sadly, bullshitters were the vast majority. It can definitely corrode your faith in humanity, assuming you had any to begin with.
These are just some things I was mulling while reading another thread here today... and then shit got real!!! Sorry ya'll.
Comments
Huh?
Its Sundayam - 749am est
Too early for this.
13:52 in Germany....but even that is too early!
I'm a child of the 90' where my youth was but?!?!?!?
Hey, this fine thread can be savored for the entire week, time is irrelevant! This is universal truth after all. I simply can't put it on the back burner any longer!
Exhibit A
+1 lol
Something like universal truth don't exist. It's just something people imagine.
But what happened to you? I'm interested.
Good grief! Chip meet shoulder, shoulder meet chip.
How about accepting music is subjective and people have differing opinions on it? Remember if you think you have the one true way to truth, wisdom and enlightenment you've almost certainly smoked too much, take a break, see if there's any nachos left.
That was obviously a joke, witness the tongue sticking out on the end.
Nothing really, just sick of the constant war between entitled baby boomers and entitled millennials, especially in regards to music and what is the "best" when in reality they're all full of shit.
But, most message boards regarding music making are full of entitled baby boomers shitting on the few millennials in attendance. I suffered it on guitar forums 5 years ago, and I'm seeing some of the same mentality creep up around here.
as an entitled millenial, etc., etc.
i wouldn't use message boards in any formula to calculate the value of anything.
But we know that no forum related to music (politics, religion etc.) is like that.
At least not if there is much traffic.
So please don't misunderstood me but what takes you above this?
So what is this "shit" you are talking about!
It's hard for anyone not to be structured by what they have already learnt. People of any age think they know certain truths, they are after all usually the centre of their own universe of knowledge we are all our own filters of what we see, hear and experience.
To put yourself apart from others is the road to becoming the self-centred thinker that you claim of others. After all with industry, as with society - they are both given life by all.
I believe in progress, but conservatism has its place. I'm about to embark on sound production studies at 30 and I know that theory is essential. If I don't know how things work I won't know what I'm ultimately aiming for. If decades haven't yet solved teaching, we either have to wait for longer or commit to solving the problem. I'm not one to solve the problem, and I doubt most of us who view this forum are going to try.
This comment and probably this thread is just pissing in the wind.
Disclamer it's 2230 and I'm drunk.
Just a full throated defense against the baby boomer mindset. They deserve to have their entitled brainwashed cage rattled every now and then.
Basically, these elderly types can't prevent themselves from clucking "The Beatles" for hours on end if anyone shares that they like something more recently produced than 50 years ago.
I remember when I was young, expressing how much I liked a thing (I won’t say what it was, it’s embarrassing [1]) to a couple of my teachers at school, who looked at each other and dismissed it as “oh, it’s just an x with a y, that they’re doing z to” or something. That was back in the mid ’70s.
This happened quite a few times since then, more and more. It had probably happened before, I just hadn’t noticed. What it was, now I was more sensitised to it, was that there’s a tendency for older generation people to encapsulate, generalise and abstract (well, there’s a lot of info floating around, you’ve got to file it away more efficiently than how you encounter it, I suppose, or it’ll lead to confusion and overload). Thus, I started to notice that I’d be excited and pleased at the discovery of something someone else had done, or something I’d noticed, and they (the older generations) would wrap it all up and say “oh, it’s just an x, being done like y” or some such simplification. Or related things, like saying that there’s only three stories. Or seven, or ten, or whatever. Or even just one (in the case of Joseph Campbell’s mono-myth concept (which I highly disagree with, precisely for the reasons exposed here, by the way)).
These abstracted wrapped up generalisations are very useful for storage and retrieval once you’ve been around the block a few times, but really, they’re doing us a disservice as well as allowing us to communicate common currency ideas efficiently (and not go mad because your head is full of entirely disparate unconnected experiences). I’m personally a bit alert to when I generalise and when I shouldn’t be. Sometimes I should be. Sometimes I use analogy to explain something else. I might talk about making bread when I’m really teaching project management as a business lecturer. But you can’t always just randomly wrap up a detailed topic as the thing that it all came from and expect it to still communicate. Older generations will do that, because they organise their experiences that way, and it’s both a good thing and a bad thing.
[1] okay, that thing I was embarrassed at.
I had the Bay City Rollers album on cassette. Why, I don’t know, but I did. There was a track on there called “Derek’s End Piece”, which is just an instrumental where Derek the drummer does some drum thing through a flanger. I had not built my first synthesiser in those days but I had been reading and re-reading through the Practical Electronics magazine series of their synthesiser project, so I was starting to understand some of the concepts. Those teachers at my school just looked and laughed at the basic drumming (I’m not a drummer and still don’t distinguish good, bad, basic, clever or anything in drumming, it was the phaser or flanger effect I was turned on by). They just said it’s just basic drumming, been put through a basic effect, and there’s nothing clever about it. Well, that set me correct! I really liked it but now I know I shouldn’t, as it wasn’t worthy of being liked. And it was only the Bay City Rollers (whereas my teachers would have been into prog rock, no doubt). Silly me.
I question this as it depends on the degree and percentage of those who've been successfully programmed to think in ways which only serve certain interests. Sadly many have holdover programming from outdated propaganda which was successful in its time, but is useless now.
And now youth have to bare the brunt of living up to the nostalgia generated from outdated propaganda.
I can't see anyone as being "self-centered" if they oppose programmed opinions.
Autonomous opinions are cool to me, if I am actually asking for them.
This older crowd however feel they are entitled to cast their opinion where no one has asked them to.
It's an uncontrollable verbal diarrhea.
I for example hate the Beatles, RAP and most of the modern top 40 music.
I loved iOS, hated it...like it again a bit. Saw it as future, now i see it more trying to invent the wheel again but with slightly edges. Tomorrow it could be another thing.
It's the humans nature to beeing a bit blind and focus more on things like a bit "egoism".
But there is a reason we are not all the same.
We are not Borg
To state ones opinion on a matter on a forum, tends to invite others opinion.
Music making is open to a far greater section of society now than ever. Best we just create music we like and if others find pleasure in it...so much the better.
Has the pressure for people to conform to society's current musical values changed? I would like to see any evidence that it has, as I remember it being the same when I was young and the same for my parents.
You younger generations should just stop making new music, there’s no need for any new music, there’s too much extant music lying around as it is, we’re having to bury the stuff.
Case in point. All weekend what’s been going through my head and can’t get rid of?
Zara bleeding’ Larsson — Lush Life.
Thanks a lot, young people. Thanks a lot. Unbelievably catchy tune, simple enough video, released two months too early, and everything’s good about it (even the chip tune effects, although the bass throbbing bit in the later bridge doesn’t seem LFO-synced properly, although maybe that’s intentional). Anyway, 2016’s summer hit. Just when I was trying to spend the weekend watching Devo videos on youtube (which proved disappointing).
I've also tried to shred my learned tendency for using analogies as I have over time realized that it obfuscates far more than it clarifies, though I will still use them mercilessly for comedic ends. It seems there has been a wide shift on analogy use culturally too.
Wrong side of bed? Sounds like someone has been hanging around the Steve Hoffman forums too much.
I don't see much of that here. Anyway, so what? People like what they like and birds of a feather like to gather together. I'm sure there are plenty of places on the internet that focus on newer music you could go to...including here which is electronic centered ... no Beatles threads here.
Ageism has no place in music
( just my ten cents
Make music as if there's no one listening.
Audience can be (is) a fundamental part in art but there's a fine line where pleasing the audience starts eroding the art. Never cross that line.
Yes, it’s almost like a… oh wait.
Cheers!
But of course!
And don't let anyone hold you back from doing it.
That said, I think it is valuable for anyone to know that there is a controversy regarding Prescription vs. Description which can be useful to meditate on.
But we all know that the real talents just create music while we writing in forums!
We are all no real musicians here
@AQ808 Interesting arbitrary business age. Used to be 'don't trust anyone over 30', now it's 50. I'm guessing you're over 30
I could be wrong but I think hes saying under 30 and over 50 = bad but his age range inbetween = super talented lol
well said.
T'was ever thus.