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Comments
Eh up....what's this "you got to feel me" business....ya perv
This is the tragic thing about "codified wisdom" creating prescription and limiting the possibilities of the future.
I think I began truly catching on to that in the late 90s going through multiple "top 50" and "top 100" lists put together from various magazines reinforcing the industry driven narratives, and every year that passes proves to me the lists to have been weaker and weaker.
It wasn't until I saw the Pitchfork lists in the mid 00s that I felt I was seeing more listener centered choices, but their more recent lists seem to show they also have fallen victim to the same industry driven viewpoints, and cultish attitudes.
Ah - ok, I've seen the type. I used to spend a lot of time on the Sonar forum which is very guitar player centric. Used to be a sort of culture war between rock and electronic musician types. But most (like here) ironically are middle aged folks doing computer music in the evenings after work.
Totally different crowd over here don't you think? We're ipad warriors after all. Heck we don't even have to go the basement or the garage. We don't have to leave the couch! Represent!
Please tell me I don't also have to represent Jay Z to the old farts club as well!!!
I'm busy!
Who's JayZ
I always remember when I first got with my (now) wife. Her kids thought I listened to 'old music'.
Funny thing was I had all the music the daughter listened to on my iPod. I also listened to far more modern music than the young lad.
I also admit to listening to Al Jolson with my dad on occasion.
Music is just a great thing
I like turtles
This is nothing really new. 50 yrs ago, older people told us our music was trivial, derivative, or created by the devil. We thought they were narrow-minded, plastic, hypocritical, and trying to deny us our freedom. The establishment made the rules. We were censored, persecuted, angry, but knew we were the most open-minded free thinkers who ever graced the planet. Then we got old. You’ll get old too.
Some of the music my generation made was great. There’s no need to brainwash anyone into enjoying it. Put your passion into your music, and maybe the next generation will listen to you as well.
Really, it was just the faintest hint of it, and it struck the nerve.
To be fair, I get into the same type of arguments with people with CPP focused music degrees, and their sneering attitudes towards "modern" music which doesn't conform to the structures they've learned, and which must be "incorrect", or require the most awkward pretzel twisting in order to fit into their learned "codified wisdom".
That "modern music" being "Jazz" from the 50s and 60s. Their instinct is to call it "non-functional" and pretty much give up.
And yet, there it is.
Well, happy easter!
My mum and dad used to say the music I listen to was weird.
My sister used to agree.
My wife says the same.
Her kids say the same.
No doubt when I'm in an old folks home, the rest of the residents will say the same too
I hear Zeppelin IV and Sergeant Pepper's is all he listens to these days, must be getting ready to take the plunge!
I love James Brown too.
Huhn!
Justified...
Yah!
Huhn!
Not Guiltaaaay,
Yah Got to feel me...
trollin the trolls,
Huhn!
This past week I’ve made a decision to stop listening to Radio 2, it’s nothing but a celebration of ’80s pop music. I’ve switched to Radio 1. I used to listen to that when I was a third my age, and now I’m finding the music better (and I mean really good), the chat frighteningly shallow (expected), the overall outlook is a lot happier. About five years ago, though, I couldn’t listen to Radio 1 — it was too dark and serious in its effort to monopolise the youth.
And here I thought you were making some kind of cryptic reference, but of course in Izzo Kanye sampled Jackson 5's I Want You Back. I'm leaving the parenthesis out of that sentence to preserve its raw aura.
this thread reminded me of a strange situation I had when I was 16yo. I was in a small record shop going through hip hop albums as a maybe 30 - 40yo man approached me asking me if I knew Led Zeppelin. he went on asking why I was wasting my time or money or both to listening to such crap and that I should listen to real music in a quite hostile way. eventually the shop manager noticed it and told him basically to fuck off and stop harassing me. I left the shop with a copy of the 1st Fugees album 'Blunted On Reality' and a shock.
this experience/ man was the reason why I had an aversion to Led Zeppelin for years. of course I knew that it wasn't their fault but in my mind I unwillingly connected Led Zeppelin to the crazy guy in the record shop.
You know brother, I attempted not to respond to your juicy piece of thread bait, but after wading through the 5 pages of it, I just can't stop myself.
I'm not going to go heel on you and hurl insults or point out that you exhibit the exact same pretentious, "know it all" narcissism you claim to despise in the babyboomer set.
I will say this from my experience, as you have from yours. My father was born in 1950, so he was 17 when Sgt. Pepper was released, and the prime demographic the rock music business catered to into the '70's.
He loved all kinds of music, not just the music on the charts at the time. This became apparent when, in 1992 as I turned 16, he gave me his entire vinyl collection along with a quality turntable. I'd already been exposed to tons of great music since childhood and learned a lot of popular music history, but the wide variety of stuff he laid on me was another education entirely.
There was blues from Howlin' Wolf, deeper '60's psychedelia like Love's "De Capo", Stephen Stills country/rock hyrid album "Manassas", lots of jazz organist Jimmy Smith including a blazing record he did with Wes Montgomery, ex-Small Faces front man Steve Marriot's classic band Humble Pie's debut album, Arabic singer Oum Kalthoum plus tons of old Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie, Louie Prima and rare jazz records from decades before...just on and on.
Of course, the standard classic rock staples were there too: Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, CCR, the Who, etc... I was exposed to and listened to so much music thanks to my Dad, an evil, coniving babyboomer.
The great thing was that his love of a multitude of different genres and artists didn't stop in 1978 or something. I remember being with him at a Wherehouse records when he bought "Synchronicity" by the Police and a Kraftwerk album the same trip.
That attitude followed through until he unfortunately passed at the too young age of 49. The point is your comments and painting with such wide strokes does a disservice to those who do dig new music and want to see the music business, or at least HUMANS playing music, even for free, to continue.
This forum is a great touchstone of the iOS music production community and we all love that technology has advanced to allow us so much power on such a small, mobile platform. But the same advances in technology have also turned musicianship into an afterthought, making it possible to tune and tweak a recording so much that any trace of life can be sucked out of it completely.
I respect anyone, in any genre who is putting their heart into the music and actually producing new stuff, derivative or not. We could be in a state very soon of automated music creation where a program combines a chord progression, rhythm track and melody line for instant and "original" muzak.
The fact humans still produce the art of music at all along with the part our community is playing in the continuation of the art form inspires me. If all one can do is be divisive and contradictory about era's in music or what age a performer or audience may be, to me, makes them part of the problem music faces today, not part of any solution. Be cool...
[Too long; still reading.]
Tried with soundesigns from, just to name some: Venitian snares, Amon Tobin, Noisia, Aphex Twin?
Still reading.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Median_age.png
I wish folks could get back on the topic of how twisted, soul-stealing ageless ginger aliens are invading our shared sonic reality with incessant droning on about how much they despise the fact that... I like turtles.
5+ pages and still trolling.. geezz.. this thread.
I sort of see where OP might be coming from. But quite franking, I don't know that many type of "old geezer" that OP seems to be coming across in order to make his broad generalizations. Sure, there is one in every crowd, but a lot of "old geezers" I know tend to have a very diverse music collection spanning everything from Jazz, to Brian Eno to Talking Heads to the usual Beatles and Zeppelin stuff. From what I have seen, age has allowed them the luxury to be exposed to more types of recorded music than someone 1/2 their age. These broad generalizations by OP are totally baseless. Just my 2 cents.
Man, blueslawyers can be some of the most tedious people on the planet, but that type of attitude is not prevalent on this forum.
As an aside, I tried to convince an amp builder friend of mine to develop and manufacture a hand-wired boutique amp called The Litigator.
I still seem to see a faint humor shining through OP's postings (as well as in others, of course), am I the only one, though? i also think threads like this do make sense, because of varying and conflicting opinions being articulated (as long as it doesn't get too poisonous...). In my experience, people generally tend to become more fixed in their attitudes toward anything, which luckily isn't true about everybody. That's why it gets complicated, because one easily does another one wrong, because he just had a wall of frustrating confrontations, making it hard to see, where the other one is actually coming from.
My classic conflict: when I talk like that, most people get the impression "he doesn't know what he wants/has no opinion of his own" So I try to clarify and make my point a little clearer (including my pretty distinguished, though with faults, of course, opinion). This then makes same people turn around and classify me as "a selfish asshole, trying to indoctrinate everybody aggressively".
There's no way getting out of this catch. I seem to be someone without idea or opinion, who forces the same upon others...., well.
Coming from a multitude (and yes, growing with age, seemingly) of confrontations in this kind of style, I do get the frustration OP seems to articulate: people with clearcut rules (unopen for discussion, and thus strict and kind of artificial-feeling) trying to dominate what everyone should be feeling/thinking really make me wanna throw up.
Again, as a result being just the same dominant on others will just be the same wrong.
Guesch Patti used to say this beautifully:
"no personne on monde ne pas se faire dominer" (no person in the world should dominate another) ever.
Let's try to keep understanding and curious, shall we?
Cheers with tears, t :-)
Oh, and:I was built 1965, at the height of that programming, as it was said... . (and I don't think any of us can ever be totally free of our "programmings" (be they conscious or unconscious), we CAN discuss them, though...
The flip side of this is that one of the things I keep banging on about is generational loss of intellectual capital. Some of you may remember me from my youtube series “Our Robot Future”. One of the single main messages was that we’re only three generations away from a new “Dark Ages”, if people don’t pass knowledge to the future generation, and that generation doesn’t … etc. Future generations will consider it all magic.
It’s already happening in a lot of areas of engineering, and apparently one of the most in demand careers at this moment is chemical engineering. There are 70 year old chemical engineers not allowed to retire, because nobody is coming into it.
Similarly a lot of big money in programming is being earned by those who program in “legacy” languages that were in vogue in the ’60s. Nobody new is learning those languages, but there’s still systems around running them.
In many areas there is a serious gap in technique and approach, as well as the knowledge, resulting in younger generations having to make the same mistakes as previous generations (of course) but in some cases, not get past those mistakes. A previous generation may have had a lucky event or perspective that allowed progress, and if that is lost, knowledge is reset to how it was prior. A lot of the early Apollo mission engineering knowledge is now gone — never recoverable.
Losing a lot of ‘old rockers’, the David Bowies, etc, this year has placed a new responsibility on younger people to keep on keeping on. Repeating the same mistakes is neither necessary nor efficient. Newton said that thing about “Standing on the shoulders of giants”, which is inscribed around the milled edge of a £2 coin. What he meant was that his achievements although lauded were really nothing more than an incremental push forward of what had already been learned by people who came before him. He was a dwarf, standing on the shoulders of giants. Newer generations are doing good with music, so no problems there.
Of course, being 55 and having walked out of my job a couple of years ago into thin air and no money, I now realise a lot of what I knew to be so, was so rigid lest I should lose my job. In my teaching job I was going backwards as my knowledge was not moving forward.
I abandoned R2 recently too because of the same old playlists of Adele type dross repeated on every show . I couldnt cope with the R1 idiotic djs so my new radio home is 6 Music and resonance radio . baconface anyone ?
I think this may shed light on some of your mullings....
http://m.mic.com/articles/96266/there-s-a-magic-age-when-you-find-your-musical-taste-according-to-science#.cqXLoADF0
Nooooo! They stole my band name! That’s what I was calling my output in the ’90s.
This should be closed. It's descended into name calling.