The Sad Reality of Music

Igneous1

I agree, I'm surprised it has been allowed to carry on, this far. I had a thread closed which was considerably less 'toxic' than this one...

mireko_2

And this is why aliens haven't made contact with us yet.

AndyE

@Igneous1 said:
I agree, I'm surprised it has been allowed to carry on, this far. I had a thread closed which was less ' toxic' than this one...

Exactly.

u0421793

But, but, but… nobody’s yet mentioned …

AndyE

@u0421793 said:
But, but, but… nobody’s yet mentioned …

Ha ha. Save yourself good fellow.

u0421793

@DaveMagoo said:
…
I think this may shed light on some of your mullings....

http://m.mic.com/articles/96266/there-s-a-magic-age-when-you-find-your-musical-taste-according-to-science#.cqXLoADF0

My 24th Birthday has this in the charts:

PAUL MCCARTNEY AND THE FROG CHORUS
BLACK LACE
LIMAHL

Are you sure about that 24 thing?

telecode101

@DaveMagoo said:
http://m.mic.com/articles/96266/there-s-a-magic-age-when-you-find-your-musical-taste-according-to-science#.cqXLoADF0

Meh... I think these sorts of articles are broad generalizations.[1] They definitely don't apply to me. I don't identify with the music that I was listening to back when I was 19 - 24. I completely forgot most of the stuff from that era and moved on a long time ago.

I think, if anything, its a personality type thing. There are people that seem to be stuck in their own little convoluted "glory days" bubble. I know those sorts of people. We all do. People that go on and on about all the "wild and crazy stuff they did back when they were 21 or something like that -- and every time you are in a social situation with them, you can be sure that they will repeat those stories once again for the gazillionth time. I would say those are the type of people that would probably have a greatest hits compilation of all the stuff they were listening to back when they were 19 to 24 and have it on constant rotate.

[1] There was another one I recently read someplace else that said men drastically change their musical listening habits in their 40s and start to listen to a lot of new types of music and start to listen to a lot of teeny bopper music. . I guess its related to mid life.

telecode101

@u0421793 said:

@DaveMagoo said:
…
I think this may shed light on some of your mullings....

http://m.mic.com/articles/96266/there-s-a-magic-age-when-you-find-your-musical-taste-according-to-science#.cqXLoADF0

My 24th Birthday has this in the charts:

PAUL MCCARTNEY AND THE FROG CHORUS
BLACK LACE
LIMAHL

Are you sure about that 24 thing?

My 24 list.... :-)

• Under the Bridge, Red Hot Chili Peppers
• November Rain, Guns N' Roses
• Tennessee, Arrested Development
• Smells Like Teen Spirit, Nirvana

I don't listen to that shit anymore -- and the above is the better stuff that was around.

But looking back now at that list sure brings back some memories. There was so much shit music back then.. I am so glad its over. > 95% of that stuff was total crap.

http://www.musicoutfitters.com/topsongs/1992.htm

Will

Sorry, I couldn't read past the first post but picked up here at the end. Popular music was definitely amazing when I was 24. http://www.musicoutfitters.com/topsongs/1995.htm Been missing Hootie and The Blowfish!

[Deleted User]

Maybe this....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2460668/Scientists-prove-taste-music-DOES-change-lifetime.html

AQ808

@JRSIV said:
The great thing was that his love of a multitude of different genres and artists didn't stop in 1978 or something. I remember being with him at a Wherehouse records when he bought "Synchronicity" by the Police and a Kraftwerk album the same trip.

From the story, it sounds as though he is more representative of the open-minded set than the close-minded cranks I aimed this towards.

AQ808

@JeffChasteen said:

Man, blueslawyers can be some of the most tedious people on the planet, but that type of attitude is not prevalent on this forum.
As an aside, I tried to convince an amp builder friend of mine to develop and manufacture a hand-wired boutique amp called The Litigator.

He'd make a killing on TGP.

AQ808

@u0421793 said:
This past week I’ve made a decision to stop listening to Radio 2, it’s nothing but a celebration of ’80s pop music. I’ve switched to Radio 1. I used to listen to that when I was a third my age, and now I’m finding the music better (and I mean really good), the chat frighteningly shallow (expected), the overall outlook is a lot happier. About five years ago, though, I couldn’t listen to Radio 1 — it was too dark and serious in its effort to monopolise the youth.

So, can you help me with this?

Was it that the format on Radio 1 rotates (progresses through time by year), or was the format the same and you had changed over the 5 years?

u0421793

@AQ808 said:

@u0421793 said:
This past week I’ve made a decision to stop listening to Radio 2, it’s nothing but a celebration of ’80s pop music. I’ve switched to Radio 1. I used to listen to that when I was a third my age, and now I’m finding the music better (and I mean really good), the chat frighteningly shallow (expected), the overall outlook is a lot happier. About five years ago, though, I couldn’t listen to Radio 1 — it was too dark and serious in its effort to monopolise the youth.

So, can you help me with this?

Was it that the format on Radio 1 rotates (progresses through time by year), or was the format the same and you had changed over the 5 years?

No, the format was definitely less happy and trying to portray a serious industry.

1P18

@RustiK said:
Huh?

+1

JRSIV

@AQ808 said:

@JRSIV said:
The great thing was that his love of a multitude of different genres and artists didn't stop in 1978 or something. I remember being with him at a Wherehouse records when he bought "Synchronicity" by the Police and a Kraftwerk album the same trip.

From the story, it sounds as though he is more representative of the open-minded set than the close-minded cranks I aimed this towards.

Possibly, but my Uncle, his brother was similar, as was the many 'old dudes' I ran into over the years.

I think some may feel older folks are being dismissive of newer music based solely because it's new or different than their usual intake of music they like. While some may have that view I think most just don't like the majority of the new stuff based on its own merits.

Your OP was very insightful but the pompous attitude of older folks can be totally echoed in young cats. If you don't dig their stuff then it's because you have a tin ear, no sense of taste or "you're just an old f**k!"

Sometimes people don't like what others do no hidden agendas, just different tastes. Last story on my Pop: I played him Red Hot Chili Peppers "Give It Away" and he thought it sucked. He said "Sounds like the "Come Together" bass line with echoey drums and bad stammering over it." I disagreed, but didn't say he was some old fool. Just his take. He said to play some stuff off Parliament Funkadelics second record if I wanted to hear some "bonafide ghetto street funk" (his words, lol).

Thing was, I played that album...and he was right. RHCP were cool, but P-Funk was a bit better...

[Deleted User]

@JRSIV said:

@AQ808 said:

@JRSIV said:
The great thing was that his love of a multitude of different genres and artists didn't stop in 1978 or something. I remember being with him at a Wherehouse records when he bought "Synchronicity" by the Police and a Kraftwerk album the same trip.

From the story, it sounds as though he is more representative of the open-minded set than the close-minded cranks I aimed this towards.

Possibly, but my Uncle, his brother was similar, as was the many 'old dudes' I ran into over the years.

I think some may feel older folks are being dismissive of newer music based solely because it's new or different than their usual intake of music they like. While some may have that view I think most just don't like the majority of the new stuff based on its own merits.

Your OP was very insightful but the pompous attitude of older folks can be totally echoed in young cats. If you don't dig their stuff then it's because you have a tin ear, no sense of taste or "you're just an old f**k!"

Sometimes people don't like what others do no hidden agendas, just different tastes. Last story on my Pop: I played him Red Hot Chili Peppers "Give It Away" and he thought it sucked. He said "Sounds like the "Come Together" bass line with echoey drums and bad stammering over it." I disagreed, but didn't say he was some old fool. Just his take. He said to play some stuff off Parliament Funkadelics second record if I wanted to hear some "bonafide ghetto street funk" (his words, lol).

Thing was, I played that album...and he was right. RHCP were cool, but P-Funk was a bit better...

This sums it up nicely. It's not about age.

Also our tastes change over time. Many bands I wasn't keen on when younger, I quite like now.

lovadamusic

People who are opinionated, judgmental, defensive, and tend towards paranoid generalizations when they’re young, tend to be that way when they get old. They can be the last to know.

AQ808

@JRSIV said:

@AQ808 said:

@JRSIV said:
The great thing was that his love of a multitude of different genres and artists didn't stop in 1978 or something. I remember being with him at a Wherehouse records when he bought "Synchronicity" by the Police and a Kraftwerk album the same trip.

From the story, it sounds as though he is more representative of the open-minded set than the close-minded cranks I aimed this towards.

Possibly, but my Uncle, his brother was similar, as was the many 'old dudes' I ran into over the years.

I think some may feel older folks are being dismissive of newer music based solely because it's new or different than their usual intake of music they like. While some may have that view I think most just don't like the majority of the new stuff based on its own merits.

Your OP was very insightful but the pompous attitude of older folks can be totally echoed in young cats. If you don't dig their stuff then it's because you have a tin ear, no sense of taste or "you're just an old f**k!"

Sometimes people don't like what others do no hidden agendas, just different tastes. Last story on my Pop: I played him Red Hot Chili Peppers "Give It Away" and he thought it sucked. He said "Sounds like the "Come Together" bass line with echoey drums and bad stammering over it." I disagreed, but didn't say he was some old fool. Just his take. He said to play some stuff off Parliament Funkadelics second record if I wanted to hear some "bonafide ghetto street funk" (his words, lol).

Thing was, I played that album...and he was right. RHCP were cool, but P-Funk was a bit better...

No, the whole point of the thread was to point out those who bludgeon others over the head with what they think is "best", especially the set that believe the best music was created 50 years ago because of their cultural brainwashing.

It had nothing to do with the notion that everyone must like everything.

Again, these are typical boomer defense mechanisms.

You are attempting to create an argument I didn't present to defend against.

Why not focus on what I actually wrote?

And sad to hear that story, as by this point, he may have grown into the exact type of person this thread discusses.

Again, it is this desire to share an unsolicited negative opinion which is the hallmark of the over 50 gas bagging which I hope people reading this thread pull themselves back from.

It should help to at least consider some reflection on the matter so as not to fall into the same trap.

It isn't something to be honored.

AQ808

@lovadamusic said:
People who are opinionated, judgmental, defensive, and tend towards paranoid generalizations when they’re young, tend to be that way when they get old. They can be the last to know.

I can't help but point out that the only people who should have a problem with what I wrote are likely those who engage in the behavior, and feel pretty damn justified about it.

It's a shame.

AQ808

@AndyE said:

@funjunkie27 said:
@Sebastian - this thread strikes me as a good candidate for closure.

This should be closed. It's descended into name calling.

I formally give you permission to stop reading this thread.

There are a little over 12,000 others in this forum.

Enjoy!

AQ808

@DaveMagoo said:

http://m.mic.com/articles/96266/there-s-a-magic-age-when-you-find-your-musical-taste-according-to-science#.cqXLoADF0

This was interesting, thanks for the share!

Like others, I do have trust issues with many of these types of studies, but this was interesting none-the-less.

AndyE

I'm busy recording music. Go trol someone else.

JRSIV

@AQ808 said:

Also, try not to argue with anyone over 50 regarding the state of music, as they've had at least 50 years of industry brainwashing through Top 10 lists in magazines, fawning documentaries, and pay to play broadcasting, that they have no capacity to come to any conversation regarding music with anything close to an unbiased opinion. The disappointing thing is that nearly all of them believe their opinion is original rather than "industry implanted".

I feel like art really can die if you take it to the internet where every one of these old farts feel entitled to blast anyone doing anything other than what they've been industry brainwashed to believe is "great". The tragedy of the internet is that it has given these entitled shits far more of a voice than they deserve.

Mr.808, I am trying to be civil and restrain myself. I like this board, realize it isn't as volatile as other music boards can be, which I like. But you said I was debating off topic and as above shows I was not.

Your contempt and angry-young-man stance is very erratic anyway, or at least whatever point you were trying to make besides " old fucks piss me off" is difficult to decipher.

You made points about the common "internet is the death of face to face social exchange" that are regardless of age, true to a great degree. Your opinion though that 90% plus of the information you've recieved is just that...your opinion.

Sometimes in life you just gave to agree to disagree. In that vein, barring any other shots you may take towards me personally that may merit a heel turn, I will just agree to disagree with you brother. Be cool...

AQ808

@u0421793 said:
The flip side of this is that one of the things I keep banging on about is generational loss of intellectual capital. Some of you may remember me from my youtube series “Our Robot Future”. One of the single main messages was that we’re only three generations away from a new “Dark Ages”, if people don’t pass knowledge to the future generation, and that generation doesn’t … etc. Future generations will consider it all magic.

It’s already happening in a lot of areas of engineering, and apparently one of the most in demand careers at this moment is chemical engineering. There are 70 year old chemical engineers not allowed to retire, because nobody is coming into it.

Similarly a lot of big money in programming is being earned by those who program in “legacy” languages that were in vogue in the ’60s. Nobody new is learning those languages, but there’s still systems around running them.

In many areas there is a serious gap in technique and approach, as well as the knowledge, resulting in younger generations having to make the same mistakes as previous generations (of course) but in some cases, not get past those mistakes. A previous generation may have had a lucky event or perspective that allowed progress, and if that is lost, knowledge is reset to how it was prior. A lot of the early Apollo mission engineering knowledge is now gone — never recoverable.

Losing a lot of ‘old rockers’, the David Bowies, etc, this year has placed a new responsibility on younger people to keep on keeping on. Repeating the same mistakes is neither necessary nor efficient. Newton said that thing about “Standing on the shoulders of giants”, which is inscribed around the milled edge of a £2 coin. What he meant was that his achievements although lauded were really nothing more than an incremental push forward of what had already been learned by people who came before him. He was a dwarf, standing on the shoulders of giants. Newer generations are doing good with music, so no problems there.

Of course, being 55 and having walked out of my job a couple of years ago into thin air and no money, I now realise a lot of what I knew to be so, was so rigid lest I should lose my job. In my teaching job I was going backwards as my knowledge was not moving forward.

I think about this often, though I don't know that it is loss of intellectual capital as much as entities are raising massive paywalls around information to create a more dull populace in order to prevent new competitors from entering the market, and institutionalize de facto monopolies and demand for their products.

Many corporations are shedding their home-grown training programs, and will no longer pay for their own employees to improve their knowledge anywhere else. All of the cost falls on the worker's shoulders, while the corporation reaps most of the benefits of it.

Things have become so distorted of late, especially in the US.

And the paywalls rise higher and higher.

When we are facing a cultural greed which wants to charge for education the exact value a person likely will get out of it, where do we go from there?

But of course we are losing the intellectual capitol which could be utilized to defeat this scourge, but many of the people holding it agree with the philosophy behind the paywalls.

I hope this can be turned around at some point in the future. I think it will have to, but would require a crash of the education market bubble.

How many brains will have to starve before that happens?

Will

@AQ808 said:

I can't help but point out that the only people who should have a problem with what I wrote are likely those who engage in the behavior, and feel pretty damn justified about it.

It's a shame.

In those other recent similar threads you've referenced, I basically argued a version of your point (music's fine, we're just old) but that doesn't mean I think your message wasn't unnecessarily generalizing and needlessly trolly.

Will

@AQ808 said:
When we are facing a cultural greed which wants to charge for education the exact value a person likely will get out of it, where do we go from there?

But of course we are losing the intellectual capitol which could be utilized to defeat this scourge, but many of the people holding it agree with the philosophy behind the paywalls.

I hope this can be turned around at some point in the future. I think it will have to, but would require a crash of the education market bubble.

How many brains will have to starve before that happens?

I take your point here (and certainly have similar feelings on the state of things with regard to corporations and workers) but I hope you see the irony in your post: you're referencing education in the same way you're accusing Les 50+ Crowd of referencing music. You're very much talking about the "old ways" of getting an education, earning a degree or some professional development and presenting said degree/certificate as a value-add to prospective employers.

Meanwhile, anyone with an Internet connection can learn basically anything they want today via structured courses at places like Khan Academy or by sticking a phrase into the search box on YouTube or Wikipedia. Or logging onto a forum and meeting people who have more experience with something or...

funjunkie27

@AQ808 said:

@AndyE said:

@funjunkie27 said:
@Sebastian - this thread strikes me as a good candidate for closure.

This should be closed. It's descended into name calling.

I formally give you permission to stop reading this thread.

There are a little over 12,000 others in this forum.

Enjoy!

Thanks, since you don't offer anything worth listening to anyway.

AQ808

@syrupcore said:

@AQ808 said:
When we are facing a cultural greed which wants to charge for education the exact value a person likely will get out of it, where do we go from there?

But of course we are losing the intellectual capitol which could be utilized to defeat this scourge, but many of the people holding it agree with the philosophy behind the paywalls.

I hope this can be turned around at some point in the future. I think it will have to, but would require a crash of the education market bubble.

How many brains will have to starve before that happens?

I take your point here (and certainly have similar feelings on the state of things with regard to corporations and workers) but I hope you see the irony in your post: you're referencing education in the same way you're accusing Les 50+ Crowd of referencing music. You're very much talking about the "old ways" of getting an education, earning a degree or some professional development and presenting said degree/certificate as a value-add to prospective employers.

Meanwhile, anyone with an Internet connection can learn basically anything they want today via structured courses at places like Khan Academy or by sticking a phrase into the search box on YouTube or Wikipedia. Or logging onto a forum and meeting people who have more experience with something or...

No, there are specific paywalls being put around specific information that is not available for free online.

For example, that article from the previous page was regarding a study which had everything but the abstract of it behind a paywall.

Are we not to assume that the article itself was written as an affiliate gateway for sales of that 27 year old study?

It becomes harder and harder to believe that by the day.

High level theoretical information is falling behind paywalls, on the internet and elsewhere.

It's protectionism itself, the very same thing I'm arguing against here.

AQ808

@funjunkie27 said:

@AQ808 said:

@AndyE said:

@funjunkie27 said:
@Sebastian - this thread strikes me as a good candidate for closure.

This should be closed. It's descended into name calling.

I formally give you permission to stop reading this thread.

There are a little over 12,000 others in this forum.

Enjoy!

Thanks, since you don't offer anything worth listening to anyway.

Thanks for stopping by!