Rapping deconstructed

kobamoto

@syrupcore said:

@kobamoto said:
... the purpose of hiphop is unity, white people have always been a part of this.

I think hip hop is too large and means too much to too many people. As such, actual definitions are impossible. But! This is very much my personal definition.

I agree about the amount of opinions out there but there are less facts, what I do whenever someone challenges that statement about unity (and they do) I ask them if they agree or not with the fact that it's a sample based artform and I haven't found someone who's disagreed yet, then I ask them what color are the people who are sampled to create authentic hiphop music and where do they come from.... the answer is usually something to the affect of 'all kinds of people from everywhere'... then I tell them, you have the right to contradict yourself as much as you want, but the foundation of hiphop is based on all kinds of people from everywhere being brought together.... and I tell them that's how powerful hiphop is , it's got you practicing unity even though you think you're against it, you actually love it.

JohnnyGoodyear

@kobamoto said:

@syrupcore said:

@kobamoto said:
... the purpose of hiphop is unity, white people have always been a part of this.

I think hip hop is too large and means too much to too many people. As such, actual definitions are impossible. But! This is very much my personal definition.

I agree about the amount of opinions out there but there are less facts, what I do whenever someone challenges that statement about unity (and they do) I ask them if they agree or not with the fact that it's a sample based arform and I haven't found someone who's disagreed yet, then I ask them what color are the people who are sampled to create authentic hiphop music and where do they come from.... the answer is usually something to the affect of 'all kinds of people from everywhere'... then I tell them, you have the right to contradict yourself as much as you want, but the foundation of hiphop is based on all kinds of people from everywhere being brought together.... and I tell them that's how powerful hiphop is , it's got you practicing unity even though you think you're against it, you actually love it.

You Sir are Mahatma Gandhi and I claim my five pounds!

mireko_2

@kobamoto said:

@syrupcore said:

@kobamoto said:
... the purpose of hiphop is unity, white people have always been a part of this.

I think hip hop is too large and means too much to too many people. As such, actual definitions are impossible. But! This is very much my personal definition.

I agree about the amount of opinions out there but there are less facts, what I do whenever someone challenges that statement about unity (and they do) I ask them if they agree or not with the fact that it's a sample based arform and I haven't found someone who's disagreed yet, then I ask them what color are the people who are sampled to create authentic hiphop music and where do they come from.... the answer is usually something to the affect of 'all kinds of people from everywhere'... then I tell them, you have the right to contradict yourself as much as you want, but the foundation of hiphop is based on all kinds of people from everywhere being brought together.... and I tell them that's how powerful hiphop is , it's got you practicing unity even though you think you're against it, you actually love it.

Wow great insight!

RUST( i )K

I think there is a distinction that should be made between Hip Hop and Hip Hop culture.

Although, they are closely intertwined, their are differences. I guess it is a matter of whom is benefiting. The music industry versus the communities touched.

For one, it was more outreach and expansion the other more therapeutic and looking inward. I know it may be splitting hairs, but, it is kind of a big deal for some.

Ultimately it is those various relationships' push and pull that have fundamentally redefined the culture as we know it.

I grew up in NYC and consider myself very lucky to have experienced the hip hop world from its inception. This is an interesting thread for many reasons. Love of music being the most important.

Icepulse

@Nathan said:

@RustiK said:
I grew up in NYC and consider myself very lucky to have experienced the hip hop world from its inception. This is an interesting thread for many reasons. Love of music being the most important.

>

Yes, I can see/hear how positive and influential hip hop can be, in the right place and time from inception up to the present. I've visited NYC several times, including the tail end of the 70's, and loved the melting pot atmosphere, while being equally perplexed at the sharp, often territorial differences.

At the time, in the UK, we did have something comparable. The Two Tone label, originating in my home town, Coventry. The Special AKA (later just the Specials) and others, were doing a great job of both making music, and getting kids to understand that black and white folks were _both _being crapped upon by the Thatcher government.

"This town, coming like a Ghost Town" had an effect on society.

Love Terry Hall. Love English Beat. What a great phase.

mister_rz

@kobamoto said:
don't know about rap but the purpose of hiphop is unity, white people have always been a part of this.

This was my experience of hip hop also, I draw a distinction between hip hop and mainstream gangsta rap from the 90's, former for me was about unity and the latter perpetuating stereotypes.

mister_rz

@dblonde said:
Ursella Rucker.
Great rap and poetry.

One track I love by her is cypha feat kuf knotz, tried to find it on youtube but no joy, summed up how I felt about what happened to hip hop to a tee.

mister_rz

Two tracks I loved separated by a few decades

synthandson

thanks @kobamoto for your many great posts in this thread! and to all the people posting links to good music!

Funkdoobiest - Dedicated

Gauge The Mental Murderah - Cranium

Natural Ressource - They Lied

Kool Keith - Livin' Astro

The Beatnuts - Lick The Pussy

kobamoto

thank you Synthandson, Jg, and everyone it's so cool to have a positive convo about these things.

W.erd to everyone, the audiobus forum goes great with steamed veggies.

Will

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@kobamoto said:

@syrupcore said:

@kobamoto said:
... the purpose of hiphop is unity, white people have always been a part of this.

I think hip hop is too large and means too much to too many people. As such, actual definitions are impossible. But! This is very much my personal definition.

I agree about the amount of opinions out there but there are less facts, what I do whenever someone challenges that statement about unity (and they do) I ask them if they agree or not with the fact that it's a sample based arform and I haven't found someone who's disagreed yet, then I ask them what color are the people who are sampled to create authentic hiphop music and where do they come from.... the answer is usually something to the affect of 'all kinds of people from everywhere'... then I tell them, you have the right to contradict yourself as much as you want, but the foundation of hiphop is based on all kinds of people from everywhere being brought together.... and I tell them that's how powerful hiphop is , it's got you practicing unity even though you think you're against it, you actually love it.

You Sir are Mahatma Gandhi and I claim my five pounds!

What he said. Dayyuum hoss! Flapping beautiful.

u0421793

Brian Eno & Rick Holland - Multimedia

RUST( i )K

Childhood revisit..........................

RUST( i )K

When I was a junior in high school I got suspended for doing New Jack Hustler at a talent show in which parents were at.

Just because I grabbed my crotch at the "get off my jock" part and then when the part goes, " you don't like how I'm livin' then f_ck you" - I held the mic out and the crowd yelled "F U C K Y O U"

I don't remember what my parents said/did.

My motivation for the performance was my earlier meeting and hanging with Ice T.

I am still trying to procure a copy of the video to post.

JohnnyGoodyear

@RustiK said:
When I was a junior in high school I got suspended for doing New Jack Hustler at a talent show in which parents were at.

Just because I grabbed my crotch at the "get off my jock" part and then when the part goes, " you don't like how I'm livin' then f_ck you" - I held the mic out and the crowd yelled "F U C K Y O U"

I don't remember what my parents said/did.

My motivation for the performance was my earlier meeting and hanging with Ice T.

I am still trying to procure a copy of the video to post.

That I would like to see.

JohnnyGoodyear

Épater la bourgeoisie....

RUST( i )K

@Nathan said:

@RustiK said:
When I was a junior in high school I got suspended for doing New Jack Hustler at a talent show in which parents were at.

Interesting how rebellion crosses generations and race to mean the same thing. Back in the day, I recall a school friend getting into trouble at an assembly where performance was encouraged, for doing his version of Bowie's song Time -

"Time - He flexes like a whore
Falls wanking to the floor
His trick is you and me, boy."

Yeah, it is interesting.

Almost more so is the depth of character and interest of this forum and the people who are into it.

I am so blessed to have found this forum and IOS music as a whole.

It has proved a very positive thing in my life. I never thought music could take on new way of being part of my life.

But it has.

Icepulse

@Nathan said:

@RustiK said:
When I was a junior in high school I got suspended for doing New Jack Hustler at a talent show in which parents were at.

Interesting how rebellion crosses generations and race to mean the same thing. Back in the day, I recall a school friend getting into trouble at an assembly where performance was encouraged, for doing his version of Bowie's song Time -

"Time - He flexes like a whore
Falls wanking to the floor
His trick is you and me, boy."

I always thought that was a Jacques Brel song, but I guess I confused it w/ "My Death".

JeffChasteen

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Épater la bourgeoisie....

I think the last time that actually happened was when K. Stockhausen expressed his admiration for the conceptual brilliance of the September 11 events.
Hell, the bourgeoisie are now the makers and consumers of "shocking art"
They are the only ones who give a damn; everyone else is too busy watching cooking shows.

Icepulse

@Nathan said:

@Icepulse said:

I always thought that was a Jacques Brel song, but I guess I confused it w/ "My Death".

>

FYI, Time was written by Bowie in New Orleans in November 1972, during the American leg of his first Ziggy Stardust tour.

As you probably know, Time was from Aladdin Sane. But on Ziggy Stardust, the year before, the song Moonage Daydream had the line "Keep your 'lectric eye on me babe." How's that for a vision of what we're doing right now.

I don't think the notion of a distopian future where everyone is perpetually surveilled is something Bowie predicted.

I mean, Orwell, no?

JohnnyGoodyear

@Icepulse said:

@Nathan said:

@Icepulse said:

I always thought that was a Jacques Brel song, but I guess I confused it w/ "My Death".

>

FYI, Time was written by Bowie in New Orleans in November 1972, during the American leg of his first Ziggy Stardust tour.

As you probably know, Time was from Aladdin Sane. But on Ziggy Stardust, the year before, the song Moonage Daydream had the line "Keep your 'lectric eye on me babe." How's that for a vision of what we're doing right now.

I don't think the notion of a distopian future where everyone is perpetually surveilled is something Bowie predicted.

I mean, Orwell, no?

Cicero?

[Deleted User]

@Icepulse said:

I don't think the notion of a distopian future where everyone is perpetually surveilled is something Bowie predicted.

20 years later 1997 ...

[Deleted User]

I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

JohnnyGoodyear

@lala said:
I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

Come now, I think there are more cameras per square foot in my beloved London than anywhere else I might choose to live....Your blanket bias against almost anything American leaves even a sympathetic audience pretty deaf pretty quickly...

Icepulse

@lala said:
I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

Ever see "Red Road"? It happens everywhere. If you think it doesn't, you're simply deceived.

Icepulse

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@lala said:
I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

Come now, I think there are more cameras per square foot in my beloved London than anywhere else I might choose to live....Your blanket bias against almost anything American leaves even a sympathetic audience pretty deaf pretty quickly...

Yeah. It's getting pretty old.

JeffChasteen

@Icepulse said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@lala said:
I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

Come now, I think there are more cameras per square foot in my beloved London than anywhere else I might choose to live....Your blanket bias against almost anything American leaves even a sympathetic audience pretty deaf pretty quickly...

Yeah. It's getting pretty old.

Must. Resist. Godwin...

Agreed.

[Deleted User]

@Icepulse said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@lala said:
I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

Come now, I think there are more cameras per square foot in my beloved London than anywhere else I might choose to live....Your blanket bias against almost anything American leaves even a sympathetic audience pretty deaf pretty quickly...

Yeah. It's getting pretty old.

Don't get me started on UK anti EU politics, lol
u don't want to hear either

Icepulse

@lala said:

@Icepulse said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@lala said:
I wonder why americans seam to be ok with being spied on. They listen in on all calls and read your email, America doesn't care ... This is Not the land of the free I imagined.

Come now, I think there are more cameras per square foot in my beloved London than anywhere else I might choose to live....Your blanket bias against almost anything American leaves even a sympathetic audience pretty deaf pretty quickly...

Yeah. It's getting pretty old.

Don't get me started on UK anti EU politics, lol
u don't want to hear either

At least you'd be in some position of propriety. You spout a lot of ill-informed criticism of the US, then trivialize the significance of rap lyrics, which express the condition of the very people most oppressed by the US system you so disparage. Then say you "live in the future".

Quit while you're behind.

[Deleted User]

If I can't dance to it it's not my revolution.