Rapping deconstructed

carol

@kobamoto said:

@carol said:

@lala said:

@mschenkel.it said:

@carol said:
It's not the cultural thing I don't get , and I like a lot of the backing music in rap . What I don't like , is the vocal rap itself . Brushing aside the meathead mainstream stuff about 'gangstas' and 'bitches' , and promos more akin to sportswear ads than music videos - even the more intelligent rapping just grates with me . It bores me in the same way that spoken word folk or poetry does . Occasionally a track will tickle my fancy - The Bug I quite like - but overall it's a genre I can live without lol . I'm sure there are rap fans who feel the same about the experimental drone stuff I listen to )

Thanks for writing it in my place

the old stuff was about fun and party, the sex stuff was fun and with a lot of not meant to degrade women
its a pose a style element
like girls 10 min under the shower in mangas ...
the gangster thing is awful
None needs that

I was hoping for someone to come up with "angry young women rap" to listen to
that may be fun?

Not for me , sorry , there's enough anger in the World already , it's not something I want to hear when I listen to music )

yeah but then you can't listen to radiohead either, or the blues, or etc.... but I can understand not wanting to listen to an angry song when you want to hear a happy song just like when I want to listen to bad brains I don't want to hear katy perry, it just depends on the mood.

the generalizations though are another issue... it's possible that what might be going on here is that some folks aren't familiar enough with rap music to know that there is more than one genre within rap music, just like there is more than a single genre in rock, punk, and other genres etc.... sounds like rap music is viewed as a singularity, like the definition of rap music is only what 50 cent puts out or something....not a big deal really , you can't blame people for not knowing what they don't know. Come to think of it there are folks who think the only definition of electronic music is tiesto...

I don't mind it when Radiohead or Pink Floyd get angry . I prefer their music when they don't , but each to his or her own. I just don't like vocal rapping , and in particular when it's shouty and agressive , homophobic or misogynist . I can't relate to it , and I don't like it . Simples .

I'm sure I am guilty of being ignorant about the other genres of rap , but if they have someone talking in rhyme over the top of the music , as opposed to singing , then I doubt I'll like it . I didn't even like the bit in Blondies Rapture lol

pichi

Salt 'n Pepper have a hooker look? I don't think so. Maybe you were thinking of Madonna.
These ladies look fine.

@Nathan said:

@lovadamusic said:
As long as no one gets hurt, I try not to judge a different culture.

I'm no judge, just one person expressing a view that is no more or less important than any other. Even if I did have the power, I certainly wouldn't ban rap. If that's how people choose to express themselves, then fine. That said, I can't find anything to admire in a culture that expresses itself through violence and sexual crudity.

Don't get me wrong, sex and rock and roll often but not always go together like peaches and cream, but there are ways and ways. To take an example from black music, Ronnie Spector was, at the height of her fame, very sexy and considered a bad girl of pop. But, she always looked classy. Not like the drugged up hooker look so in vogue these days, which began with Salt 'n' Pepper.

[Deleted User]

kobamoto

@carol said:

@kobamoto said:

@carol said:

@lala said:

@mschenkel.it said:

@carol said:
It's not the cultural thing I don't get , and I like a lot of the backing music in rap . What I don't like , is the vocal rap itself . Brushing aside the meathead mainstream stuff about 'gangstas' and 'bitches' , and promos more akin to sportswear ads than music videos - even the more intelligent rapping just grates with me . It bores me in the same way that spoken word folk or poetry does . Occasionally a track will tickle my fancy - The Bug I quite like - but overall it's a genre I can live without lol . I'm sure there are rap fans who feel the same about the experimental drone stuff I listen to )

Thanks for writing it in my place

the old stuff was about fun and party, the sex stuff was fun and with a lot of not meant to degrade women
its a pose a style element
like girls 10 min under the shower in mangas ...
the gangster thing is awful
None needs that

I was hoping for someone to come up with "angry young women rap" to listen to
that may be fun?

Not for me , sorry , there's enough anger in the World already , it's not something I want to hear when I listen to music )

yeah but then you can't listen to radiohead either, or the blues, or etc.... but I can understand not wanting to listen to an angry song when you want to hear a happy song just like when I want to listen to bad brains I don't want to hear katy perry, it just depends on the mood.

the generalizations though are another issue... it's possible that what might be going on here is that some folks aren't familiar enough with rap music to know that there is more than one genre within rap music, just like there is more than a single genre in rock, punk, and other genres etc.... sounds like rap music is viewed as a singularity, like the definition of rap music is only what 50 cent puts out or something....not a big deal really , you can't blame people for not knowing what they don't know. Come to think of it there are folks who think the only definition of electronic music is tiesto...

I don't mind it when Radiohead or Pink Floyd get angry . I prefer their music when they don't , but each to his or her own. I just don't like vocal rapping , and in particular when it's shouty and agressive , homophobic or misogynist . I can't relate to it , and I don't like it . Simples .

I'm sure I am guilty of being ignorant about the other genres of rap , but if they have someone talking in rhyme over the top of the music , as opposed to singing , then I doubt I'll like it . I didn't even like the bit in Blondies Rapture lol

oh man i love blondies rappin to death, anyways I wouldn't necessarily call you ignorant because you don't know about all the rap genres, I hate eggplant and it will be a cold day in hell before I can tell you about all of the eggplant dishes out there..... makes perfect sense to me. However, there's nothing wrong with giving 'American Culture' the credit it deserves either.

[Deleted User]

morgen wird wie heute sein

mschenkel.it

u0421793

Here’s how they did it in South London back in the day:
So Solid Crew – 21 Seconds

This is how it’s done more recently here in East London, Tower Hamlets and Newham (where I’m typing this):
DizzeeRascal — Here 2 China

kobamoto

@Nathan said:

@kobamoto said:

what do you call the way women dressed in every ted nugent concert and video?

>

Those kind of videos suggest to me that Nugent is not confident in his own sexuality, and so has to adorn his videos like a 14 year-old's wet dream. Contrast that with the classy, confident and still sexy women we saw in many Prince videos, or in Robert Palmer's video for Addicted To Love.

Robert Palmer yes, but prince?... vanity 6/appolonia 6 now those were hookers

carol

@kobamoto said:

there's nothing wrong with giving 'American Culture' the credit it deserves either.

I wouldn't dare say American culture doesn't deserve credit - I don't want Obamas B52's tearing up my driveway for disrespecting him , all I'm saying is that I don't like rapping .

I think rap has an image problem , and that's not the fault of occasional listeners like me who don't research the genre .

Terrible time

kobamoto

[Deleted User]

u0421793

Personally I consider this here to be an important direction going on at the moment:
Lady Leshurr - UNLESHED (Panda Freestyle)

(look at her other stuff on her youtube channel)

yaknepper

Word

@kobamoto said:
the generalizations though are another issue... it's possible that what might be going on here is that some folks aren't familiar enough with rap music to know that there is more than one genre within rap music, just like there is more than a single genre in rock, punk, and other genres etc.... sounds like rap music is viewed as a singularity, like the definition of rap music is only what 50 cent puts out or something....not a big deal really , you can't blame people for not knowing what they don't know. Come to think of it there are folks who think the only definition of electronic music is tiesto...

u0421793

But then again, back to the very early ’80s, and over there in Kingston, Ja,
Sister Nancy — One Two

[Deleted User]

Icepulse

No need to over-intellectualize it. It either speaks to you, or it doesn't. Like anything from any other genre, some hip hop is good, some isn't. Personally, I consider the skilled use of a sampler to be every bit as artistic as any synth performance. Indeed, I find the judicious manipulation of "found" sound to be way more flexible and surprising than what's possible when your core tone is a square or saw wave. I'm a white male, but I'm a New Yorker, and I grew up around hip hop, so I understand the culture. And what's more, I know how to respect and learn about things I can't personally identify with, in the black experience. Hip hop, as a culture, is one of the most colorblind there is. If the rest of America could embrace the principles espoused and practiced in real hip hop, we'd be in much better shape.

One distinct quality of the genre is that folks don't wear kid gloves when discussing your output. It's not a warm and fuzzy backscratching club. No one is going to grin and say "nice!" If they don't mean it. That obliges creators to try harder and harder to hone the craft. A lot less room for self-indulgence and getting one's ego stroked.

Do you hip hop?

kobamoto

@Nathan said:

@kobamoto said:
Robert Palmer yes, but prince?... vanity 6/appolonia 6 now those were hookers

But they were groups separate from Prince himself. In his own videos we see women often empowered; Sheila E, Sheena Easton, Wendy & Lisa. Even Cat and Mayte were classy in their sexuality.

the way I see it it's not a black/rap culture issue, Nicki Monaj and Lady Gagga look and act almost identical. There's nothing that permeates the rap stuff you're talking about that doesn't permeate all of the music. there's not much difference between sex, drugs, and rock and roll and sex, drugs, and the rap you speak of...

but this is something else, I love this musically and rap skill speaking, my only reservations are that sometimes I think she's exclusionary which is something I cannot subscribe to being that Unity is the core tenant of my life.... but she's got skills

[Deleted User]

oh thx
i like this

thats was the kind of stuff I was hoping for
so no I am not to old to like new stuff
holly shit haha

more please @kobamoto

u0421793

The correct usage of a pulse wave:
Wayne Smith - Under Me Sleng Teng

And an article you might enjoy (especially if you used to have a Casio MT40).

u0421793

Of course, if anyone’s having trouble understanding the British rappers, here’s a useful guide:
Smiley Culture - Cockney Translation

RUST( i )K

@lala said:
Most of the stuff I find horrible apart from beasty boys and de la soul.

I used to live in same building as Mike D when I was like 19-21.

Funny I actually listened to the BB and Luscious Jackson yesterday.

I remember seeing them at Lalapalooza seems like a lifetime ago.

Icepulse

@u0421793 said:
The correct usage of a pulse wave:
Wayne Smith - Under Me Sleng Teng

Works for me!

Icepulse

Robert Palmer vids showed women in the most demeaning way of all. Identical, carbon-copy objects. Totally subservient. All white, in heels w/ matching dresses.

Women in Prince's band A) actually were involved in the performance, and some in helping define his sound. Wendy & Lisa, Sheila, etc. Were far more dominant, and brought their own style to the affair. They often were shown dominating him!

JohnnyGoodyear

@u0421793 Good eclectic posts (as is your outlook).

@kobamoto Good heartfelt posts (as is your nature).

@all the larger elephant in this room is race, but historically/sociologically we are probably not ready to see (or have) that conversation clearly, in this room or most others. Reminds me of Zhou Enlai's famous response on being asked his view of the French Revolution: Too soon to tell.

I would like to table a motion for us to reconvene in three hundred years and revisit this discussion. Open bar for all who can attend.

u0421793

@Nathan said:
…
Where it falls down for me is with the (mostly) guys, who rap about killing cops or ****ing their bitches, or use offensive terms and language in every other line.
…

But it’s hardly like that really, those cases are few and exceptional, not representative. If anything, most of the respectable stuff is about having done or gone through those negative scenarios above, then coming back ‘home’ to tell the story to warn about such futility, or counteract it with a message that is generative. It has to mention it though, in doing so, otherwise the audience won’t know what the subject being portrayed is.

Some recent London Grime, along those lines:
Wiley - Chasing The Art

RUST( i )K

@Icepulse said:
Robert Palmer vids showed women in the most demeaning way of all. Identical, carbon-copy objects. Totally subservient. All white, in heels w/ matching dresses.

Women in Prince's band A) actually were involved in the performance, and some in helping define his sound. Wendy & Lisa, Sheila, etc. Were far more dominant, and brought their own style to the affair. They often were shown dominating him!

They were NOT all women in the Robert Palmer vid.

FYI

JohnnyGoodyear

@u0421793 said:

@Nathan said:
…
Where it falls down for me is with the (mostly) guys, who rap about killing cops or ****ing their bitches, or use offensive terms and language in every other line.
…

But it’s hardly like that really, those cases are few and exceptional, not representative. If anything, most of the respectable stuff is about having done or gone through those negative scenarios above, then coming back ‘home’ to tell the story to warn about such futility, or counteract it with a message that is generative. It has to mention it though, in doing so, otherwise the audience won’t know what the subject being portrayed is.

Some recent London Grime, along those lines:
Wiley - Chasing The Art

+1

Icepulse

You mean they were men?

Icepulse

@u0421793 said:

@Nathan said:
…
Where it falls down for me is with the (mostly) guys, who rap about killing cops or ****ing their bitches, or use offensive terms and language in every other line.
…

But it’s hardly like that really, those cases are few and exceptional, not representative. If anything, most of the respectable stuff is about having done or gone through those negative scenarios above, then coming back ‘home’ to tell the story to warn about such futility, or counteract it with a message that is generative. It has to mention it though, in doing so, otherwise the audience won’t know what the subject being portrayed is.

Some recent London Grime, along those lines:
Wiley - Chasing The Art

Exactly.

RUST( i )K

I find that the behavior and language used by an artist when the spotlight isn't there is most important.

I did some work with Pharrell in a non-musical endeavor in Miami's design district in 2008 along with Quest in another case years earlier, and they are more impressive as men not performing then even their art portray.

The nicest guy of anyone I met from Hip Hop was Ice T. He was so cool, that he took me with him out for the night with Donald D and the whole syndicate to any area club at a tour stop in Pennsylvania. The thing was, I wasn't old enough to get in bar/club at that time he didn't care. It was the tour proceeding the release of New Jack City after the original gangsta album. Cool dude. Never forget it.

I also have seen despicable "rappers" in real life and they really represented the worst of what society has to offer.

Puffy and those clowns single handed fu_ked up the Hamptons thriving summer house scene by making it all about "bottles" blah blah.

Prior to that, Hamptons were all house all the time. My understanding is that things are even more different now.
Haven't spent the summer there in years.

Anyway, that is my quick hip hop chronology.