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Comments
Having purchased something and then having it taken away from you is theft in my book.
If my Nanostudio ever disappears, the shit's really gonna hit the fan.
I paid £4.49 and now have nothing.
It isn't any concern of mine that the manufacturers have gone out of business to do something else, although good wishes to them all in their new endeavours. I paid £4.49 and now have nothing. This 'developers fee' - an annual fee - I don't see the relevance. They've done the development, the app is developed, it has been sold to a number of people, it doesn't need any further development (let's say), so there's no requirement for asking a further developers fee if there's no further development - it's developed. Leave it there, it is now a finished product. The manufacturers can go and do something else (in some cases, even die, unfortunately) but that's not connected with my paying actual money for something that is a finished final product. Leave it there. That way I'd have paid £4.49 and still have something.
As things stand, I paid £4.49 and now have nothing.
I understand your arguments but there's also something as costumer satisfaction. Apple once promised that once you bought an app it was yours for the rest of your life. That technology advances doesn't matter. Some of my friends still use iPhones 3G's and 4/4S. Just because they are attached by the formfactor and because you can get them cheap. In the same way you can be attached to a game that a lot of people call stupid or redundant (flappy bird... anyone) and some people just want them also on their new iOS devices.
Besides that there's the conserve history argument, look a web archive ( https://archive.org/web/ ), just because you can do it and of course it is hard to tell what at this moment will be relevant in say 50 years. Moldavia could be erdicated, an Olympic fan app could be relevant to what once was. Throwing things away reminds me of 60s and 70s television shows and news that never was back-upped. That said Apple has money enough to archive and conserve all this old stuff. Maybe they just should make an obsolete archive in a seperate store.
I have downloaded over 5000 apps, btw most of them freebees just because I was and still are addicted to download and try new stuff. And especially in the early app store years there was a type of creativity that I never saw again. probably all to do with the limitations of programming and exploration of the new medium. A good example are the music apps by Okahon http://okahon.sakura.ne.jp/okahon_ori/
It would be a shame if this kind of stuff disappears because Apple wants to clean up. Personally I find this kind of early apps intriguing, but others probably see apps that I see as stupid intriguing. It's hard to talk about taste because it's personal. As said earlier Apple should just create an obsolete app store or just make a a choice for consumer so hide apps that Apple considers as obsolete. This should not be too difficult.
The problem is the TOC virtually gives Apple the ability to do what they want. I've struggled with agreement with this after having a good read of it. I now firmly believe I am probably better off putting any future monies into stand alone hardware product for my music making. Yes, I love iOS music making apps, I just don't see it as being long term economically sound for myself. Your mileage may vary. I probably won't be consuming much if any iOS product from now on. I'm beginning to see the sweet shop for what it truly is - a false economy.
I smell a thread closure...
Well I get down with the "non-possibility to sell apps that I don't need anytime apple policy" and so... so, money has it's relevance but is not the most important IMO since I support most apps (like Lemur, Modstep...) more for what they are than use (just these two are anymore in my iDevices but I don't regret these purchases since these are still working if someday I need them). It's related to trust and compromise. I can understand Apple changing the rules f##k the business model and devs need to think twice how to deal with it (iap, subscription, hardware licensing and dependency) and I can understand why Apple could gift GB or sell it under cost (of its development) so ok, that's why I purchase some apps even I use them few times... because it's a trust relationship and I want to support them.
I usually become salesman of most of them over the net, with friends etc etc... but it's a two side knife because if (due to Apple changes or not) a developer discontinnue a "one time purchase" app users feel cheated and will not trust in it the next time.
That's all (folks).
Yeah the auto download update thing is really bugging me. I need space on my iPad and it keeps downloading the 1.1Gb so I have to delete it. Then it re downloads. Even though I have auto download turned off.
Seriously how do we get them to stop this? Has anyone heard if this is supposed to be fixed or if it's just how it is supposed to work?
I have a backup of those
(If I recall correctly those books were given away for free when 'Books' were introduced to the iTunes Store).
What actually happens at the end? I reached the last chapter and then......
Don't think it's really about 'taking sides' with this issue. It's just mostly discussion on something that will affect most of us at some point or another.
The whole problem is that the whole app system too closed, which I somehow can understand. But just for continuity sake it would be an intersting option to allow side-loading as is possible on Android devices. With Apple deciding for me what is obsolete it goes the wrong way. Or as I said earlier Apple just should implement an option to hide what Apple declared obsolete apps. So we can decide by ourselves what we want to download.
I remember when I first started participating on this forum a little over a year ago... I got lots of flack for asking if apps I was interested in, but hadn't been updated in over a year or two. I was told "it still works so it doesn't really need an update"
I'm going back to being vigilant about checking. If an app hasn't had even a maintenance update within about 6 months and the dev doesn't appear active... No sale.
Most of the apps I’ve bought for iOS are still working, were very inexpensive compared to what I’ve paid for music-making stuff in the past, and many still get updated with new features all the time FOR FREE. In other words, thanks to evil Apple, this is the best it's ever been for me. If a few cheap apps I bought go bust, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it, much less abandon the platform. I’m prepared that in several years, if I’m still around, I’ll have had to adjust to many changing conditions, and devices/apps I use now may be gone but replaced with better ones. It’s evolving. If I don’t get my money’s worth out of it, that’s my fault.
Where has my long and very serious response with youtube example to Bram Bos gone. There was nothing offence in that post, it was just putting arguments why conserving an archive like archive.org is of interest. And that taste just differs because it personal.
I use this same approach. That said I'm a bit concerned about Enkl by Klevgrand - it has not been updated and has a different design language than the other Klevgrand synths. I suspect its days are numbered.
Similar instability on Desktop led me to just use the built-in effects and synths in Logic Pro, and forget about all the 3rd party Mumbo Jumbo..(except for Spectrasonics).
I could be on the way there again with GB iOS.
The Korg MS20, which I bought new nearly 40 years ago and cost less than I've spent on iOS music apps is still working. And I could sell it for three times what I paid for it, getting 40 years free use into the bargain.
Will I be able to say the same about my Air 2 and copy of iPolysix?
Unlikely, especially if they've removed it from my account.
I have sent another message and editing it I have been splashed with moderation warning. Since I'm more supporter than hater I supose these will back after moderation.
I've read through most of this thread and I don't remember reading anything inflammatory. If a discussion about apps on a forum about apps is out of hand, then so be it.
Could you find someone who will trade their old hardware to you for your iOS stuff? Maybe there’s a good deal there that works for both.
I’m also with those above who check to see how long it’s been since an app’s been updated. This is a different world today, but I pretty much buy the same when it comes to evolving technology. If I don’t think I can get my money’s worth out of something before it goes obsolete, I don’t buy it. This iOS market is not like buying instruments that you expect to last a lifetime, so make purchases based on reality.
Without any advanced notification, this smacks of theft to me. It doesn't seem the customer is high up on Apple's list of priorities. Yes, I can write it off as a relatively insignificant loss (in terms of money...I liked the app), but what if this happened to one of your favorites...an Auria, Blocs, Gadget, etc.? Maybe unlikely, but Apple is proving they can and will do it, if it's in their interest.
As an aside, I keep my iPad4 just full enough where the auto iOS update can't download, and will now dedicate it to the apps I would regret losing.
This is like in Avatar, where they turn the avatar chambers off.
I hope so, because I really put a lot of effort in it, as said nothing offence. And I just tried to come up with alternatives as an obsolete appstore by Apple or possibilty to choose for everything (including those old obsolete stuff) in the app store or just Apples choice with stuff that it ready for the last generation iOS devices.
btw I was editing my post though because, because saw grammar mistakes... English is not my native language
I actually still do use the approach. I first check for the last update to see if it's being maintained at all. Then, I check the dev contact to see if they're still blogging, tweeting or any kind of response at all within 6 months.
If they don't have any updates and they aren't active anywhere, I usually won't buy. If it's dirt cheap, like $1-$2 I'll decide if I'll get much out of it within the next 6 months before it likely stops working, and if so I might buy a "disposable" app.
What gets me though... there's a lot of anger towards Apple at the moment which is understandable, but some developers like Deregulator, have (now had, gone now too) apps that barely even work at all. Deregulator can crap out your whole system completely losing audio until a forced reset, and yet this developer still sells this app without any updates in a couple years, and was even putting it on sale frequently. For apps like this that have now been chopped from the app store, I say good riddance.
I didn't read the response so I don't know what it was about. But just to clarify, I'm not necessarily an advocate or supporter of the "big purge" (or more specifically: the hamfisted way Apple go about it). I just thought I'd chime in with a few counter-perspectives in addition to what has already been stated. One way or another, something had to be done about the current size and state of the Appstore. And I understand that from a technical perspective it's also very costly and unpractical to keep shipping and maintaining a 32-bit copy of iOS along with every new 64 bit system now that 32 bit iOS devices haven't been sold for quite a while.
For most people the impact of the clean up will probably be minimal because they have typically already moved on to newer games and apps, and will have long since deleted their old stuff anyway. It is likely that we as a music community are hit harder with the consequences than the average user.
On a side note, I'm amazed at the civility of these discussions on this forum. There's still hope for humanity seeing we can have a proper discourse of this kind without resorting to cheap potshots and ad-hominems and irrational conspiracy theories like most other corners of the internet (I'm looking at you, Gearslutz).
The "selling it for 3 times what I paid for" only works for famous stuff. I still have several PC from the early 2000. Not famous mac vintage models just old windows PCs. Worth nothing.
I have some old Yamaha/ Korg keyboards, not a famous synth. Worth something but not 3 times what I paid for them (more like 3 times less what I paid)
Stored somewhere in my house there's also typewriter from the 80s, and printer from the times before USB. The typewriter works, the printer compatibility was broken with windows 10, worth nothing.
I like this post , I'm inspired now to start going hardware again. I have most of what I need anyways. I've got my voice, guitars, brothers full acoustic drum set, piano, Roland keyboard, microphones etc...
Etc,etc....
I have a Fostex recorder/ mixer that still works amazingly great, have Ableton, Reason 9 on Pc hooked up to a high quality interface.The only iPad I have is iPad mini 2 and my daws are Auria standard and Harmonicdogs' multitrack daw. Auria works not bad but its a resource eater and gigabyte eater. My iPad is 64g. Multitrack daw hasnt been updated in awhile so who knows. I was planning to pick up Cubasis to have it but maybe not now.
This thread is alot to think about. I don't buy itunes albums anymore because I'd rather get a high quality copy of an album and burn it to a physical cd so its an object that's truly mine rather than a digital mp3 file I'm paying for the license to listen to. For example downloaded last year off of Kate Bushs' site a high quality of 50 Words for Snow and it's fantastic. Burn it to cd and it's great. Never buying itunes stuff again.
And even with the talk of new iPads coming just leaves me feeling blah. And I can't just keep buying a new iPad everytime they appear....
As a matter of interest does any one know if its any different over in Android or WindowsApp stores.
All my musical hardware from the arse-end of pre-history is still going strong: guitars, amps, synths, fx, multitrack etc. and while most aren't worth MORE, they've earned their keep and can still be sold for something if I need the cash.
Computer based music is a different kettle of fish, but I can still run my ten year old copy of Reason on my old PC and have sold other software (Live, Cubase etc.) for a few quid towards new stuff.
My iOS apps in contrast can't be re-sold, and there is no guarantee they will work after the next iOS update, since no-one knows what it will do. And now they can remove purchases from my account.
I'm not knocking iOS as a fun music making platform, but it needs to prove itself as a serious long term contender, and this is not the way to do it.
At some point (soon?) I turn on "airplane mode" and this Air 2 becomes hardware. I like the sound of that more and more: "Airplane Mode". Like the ending of Welles' "Mr Arkadin", a little prop plane circling high overhead, unreachable by radio, ground control's pleas unanswered.
As stated my response to you was just about arguments why Apple should keep up old apps. You talked about relevance of a Moldavian Olympic app or the millions stupid game apps. My argument was that the first could be relevant as a historical document in the future as Moldavia could cease to exist in ie 50 years. About millions of outdated and stupid games I think taste levels differ, people could become attached to things and want to have them also on there latest iOS devices. Taste is something personal. In the end I gave an youtube link to a magnificent music iapp by OKAHON from the very early app store times which I find is an important thing for me, but probably a lot of people here, to keep available. I have also Powon from the same designer and it uses nowadays half the screen because made for iPhone 3G res. But still it's interesting for my taste.
As said an alternative for the outdated stuff could just be the possibilty to hide those apps for people that want the greatest and latest experience, so let peopel decide be themselves. Besides that I think Apple should be aware of that apps have a history some things could just be gone forever, like those 60s and 70s tv shows that were destroyed because nobody thought it would interesting for future generation...