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Comments
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That's exactly what it appears to be. Other hosts give you the ability to record from auri units, or at least bus audio from them to other routes, Cubasis is lacking that ability it seems. I might be completely wrong, I don't know Cubasis, it's not an app I use on a daily basis.
In LayR just like all other multi out apps I know of main Stereo out is an 'auri' unit. All other outputs are 'aurg' units.
Seems to me that Cubasis devs decided because auri is a "MIDI Instrument" then they would only give you the option to connect them to MIDI or Instrument tracks. Why they chose to ignore auri for audio tracks is only known to them.
Did you see one of my replies disappear then? I edited it, to make it make more sense, and it got held up for a moderators approval
Another option with Cubasis of course, especially as this is the Audiobus forum, is to select LayR's stereo/main output as the input to audiobus and route audiobus in cubasis to an audio track?
@LivingMemorySoftware
Who do we have to talk to to get this bug fixed? I could live with an iPhone UI in AU mode.
a: First I have to thoroughly document the bug,
b: then write code which demonstrates it,
c: then send that to Apple via their bug reporting mechanism,
d: then they wait for ages before looking at it, after which it may or may not be fixed in a future update of iOS....
ab are in progress, c will be done in the next couple of days, d will happen when it happens !
4444> @LivingMemorySoftware said:
FYI folks;
Meanwhile, I am also experimenting with a workaround solution that might work in the interim, but don't get your hopes up too high. The bug is a serious bug. LayR can have 1000s of parameters, think about it! A host app has to be able to cope with them. ( Most can! ). One moment a host knows about a LayR Performance with a single instrument in it, the next it has to cope with 100 instruments... But it's at the point at which it changes from 1 to 100 that this apparent bug in iOS causes host apps to freeze. Our initial investigations are pointing toward what's called an "exception" being "thrown" under the hood, between LayR and it's host. I'd would like the opportunity to talk to someone at Apple about it, but that's not likely to happen either
Also, as far as I'm concerned at this point in time, releasing LayR as an AUv3 would also result in a tech support nightmare when people try to run multi-instances on low end devices.
When it finally does happen, I will likely put an option in the app itself to prevent the engine running when the app launches. That way the CPU on smaller, lower end devices won't be overloaded when an AUv3 is launched in a host app. If you'd prefer to use a limited user interface as an AUv3 then at least you will have that choice.
LayR is designed to be for the future, and also to be future proof as far as I can predict the future ( I've been around long enough to be a good judge ). At the moment LayR is pushing the envelope as far as is can with CPU usage on low end decives in order to get all those voices. On low end devices, of which there are still many, it means running multiple instances of LayR will cause audio problems. audio problems = tech support meltdown. There is only one of ME and I cannot handle a tech support meltdown and work as a designer coder at the same time!!
Wait folks: Patience, it will happen eventually.
No-one is twisting your arm to go buy LayR!
But I'd love it if you did because the more of you that do, the more time I get to continue working on it, without having to take breaks away from it to earn money as a freelance engineer!
This would work if the transport buttons for Cubasis showed up but they do not appear when I load LayR into Cubasis via Audiobus. Recording the master out did work but does require manually switching into LayR from Cubasis but if your timing is decent it could be done.
It seems like the abundance of lower end devices are crippling the capabilities of the more powerful devices. Yet without software that pushes the envelope there's less incentive for customers to upgrade. I guess we'll have to wait 4 years until all those older batteries die.
good point, transport controls for Audiobus, added to roadmap
Hi again folks:
John Walden over at MusicAppBlog has written a review of LayR that does a better job of explaining LayR than I have ever managed to convey so far...
http://musicappblog.com/layr-review/
With all due repect, sir, I think you're right
Just read this. Good concise write up.
I understand the arpeggiator component much better now. And, it sounds incredibly versatile. I kept thinking in terms of using LayR's arpeggiator to drive other external synths instead. But, midi out isn't supposted currently is it? Or, can you indeed use LayR's arp to drive external synths via midi?
Also, can LayR's key color coding be used to specify which ranges of the builtin keyboard are contolling specific instruments? ie, if I configure instrument 3 so that it only plays when a specific range on the keyboard is played, can I color cord that range to green as a visual cue where my instrument 3 is triggered?
The love for this app is growing daily as I expected it would. This will definitely rank high on the list of notable apps for 2017 no doubt about that now.
Skip, I know you sent this in a mail also but I'll reply here, I'd rather our support box was used for more serious issues
MIDI out is not currently supported but is in the roadmap for a near future update.
Key colour is only used to colour the keys, to make it obvious where the octaves begin and end.
Key range could be coloured perhaps, I'll add it to the wish list
Dude, that's the email contact address you have on your site. I asked the question here, and on the musicappblog site too. Couldn't get an answer so I sent an email via your site.
Noticed I didn't get a reply to my email either, but I see in another thread you simply delete email inquiries about your app that you don't deem "valid". Seriously?!
Just sent you the note because I was trying to decide if I wanted to give you my $20. Sorry my question wasn't "serious" enough, and sorry for the trouble.
Since this synth is made for performence it would be lovely if it gets some kind of microtuning (.tun file import would be the best of course). These things are rare on iOS but really needed for projects outside of the western 12 note scales. It also would make the already great drone stuff even much better.
A "simple" wet/dry LFO for the FX would be a great start too for some more interesting swells and waves etc.
So a kind of LayR mixed with Shoom.
Not sure if that would be technical too difficult or would need a rewrite etc.
And i wish all iOS developers could hire Dan Worral for some deep tutorials
I still wonder why there are no demos possible. I remember there was a 7 day demo or so for the DRC synth (not sure really). So i´m a bit confused about this stuff. Are demos really forbidden by Apple?
I'll keep LayR on my iPad for now...
I do miss the option of using the envelopes to control/automate modulation depths.
This is highly usable for fading in/out modulation over time and since the LFO's can go insanely fast and can be keyboard tracked they would be perfect for FM too. I do like to loop able envelopes that can run really fast too.
Velocity to 'Modulation Depth' is another highly useable feature that would be nice to have.
Sure I can use ModSTEP and send midi cc and modulate a lot but it's not a 'seamless experience' yet.
I also like the oscillator design with A & B waves that can be 'mixed' and that the phase of B can be modulated.
(Being a PWM junkie having Ramp Up/Down is quite comforting). I'm one of those 'crazy people' who love to control pulse-width with an envelope... (Yah, I'm 'damaged' by SID-Music).
It's going to be interesting to follow LayR for sure add see what the future holds
Sorry for another question (yeah, but i don´t know how to get all the info otherwise). Does it update everything at audio rate? I really would like to hear a filter cutoff modulation sweep from the slowest (which i hope is really slow, means 0.01Hz or slower) up to the highest possible rate. Can it use other sources (like an OSC) for modulation?
Sorry, i´m a kind of geek about these things.
I can just recommend to release some more tutorials and more important a manual pdf which people could read before buying.....if you want more sales.
I could probably do those kinds of examples if I only could assign an envelope to control the LFO Speed.
LFOs can run at 10Khz but the 'modulation depth'(going from closed filter to fully open) are barely audible at unless the filter is at maximum resonance and then we'd be in the realm of ring-modulation.
The Envelopes can do 100 second attack, decay and release times.
So the example would be to simply assign the envelope to sweep the LFO rate from 0 to 10Khz over a period of 100 seconds... But that's a 'no can do' at the moment.
Thank´s for the info. 10Khz sounds good so far on paper but i have a few synths which can go to audio rate as well (i´m a sucker for this) but some synths still really sucks at a higher rates than 100 or 200Hz because the synth engine doesn´t update at audio rate which makes that a bit useless and you getting more a kind of "fake" audio rate stuff.
Indeed, is it also not possible to modulate an LFO with another LFO (Mitosynth is awesome here)?
This (LFO modulating the speed of another LFO) is also a 'no can do' in the current version of LayR.
PWM and FM are my two closest to heart synthesis 'types' closely followed by sync and ring-mod so I was a bit bummed that LayR didn't allow me to use an envelope to control the 'depth/amount' of modulation.
I do realise that the underlying synthesis-engine is very capable but for now somewhat 'limited' when it comes to source->destination(s) modulation routings.
For true 'audio-rate' stuff on iOS there is always the option to build some stuff using Audulus 3 but It's just 'too much' for me
I think the only "true audio rate" stuff for iOS is Model 15. Audulus is great too but (maybe like LayR) there is a price for synths which can go really deep for layers and modulations having not such high quality audio engines then.
For non audio rate modulations i think Mitosynth is unique and still one of my favourite all time soundscape/drone tool since it let you use endless LFO´s (and other sources) which can be modulated by modulators which will be modulated by modulators etc. etc.
Some of the Virsyn stuff is awesome too. Not sure if any other iOS synths offer those great MSEG (which are damn snappy too).
Did i say that i love MSEG (multi stage envelope generators) or even better, modulation mappers.
I'm a big fan of 'step-sequencers/step-modulators' as they can also be used/seen as custom LFO waveforms...
I guess the developer of LayR (@LivingMemorySoftware) can share some light regarding this architecture behind LayR to ease our curiosity
Wow!!!! Got KRFT linked to LayR synth via Link To Midi app and had the kitArp2 LayR performance playing in sync!!!! Oh wow what a beauty of sound guys!!!!! Speechless!
Try it! Will try to do a short sound demo.
There's no fake in LayR
LayRs modulators are updated per sample.
The envelopes are also updated per sample.
Only the looping part of an envelope, ie the decision to make it restart when decay completes, is updated less often but even that is a maximum of every 64 samples.
Multi-stage EG as modulator? Interesting idea, not in the immediate roadmap, but I add every suggestion I see made to that roadmap so it is in it now ... ( and this road is getting quite long and windy now! I will pick and choose what goes in each update based on priorities I can make with implementation time and demand from users )
>
It's a 'damage' most of us have from using Virsyn apps
I'm more of a 'step sequencer' person.
If/when custom 'LFO-Waveforms' arrive they could be treated as 'step sequencers'.
You already have a nice 'smooth' parameter for the 'S&H'. Now imagine applying it to a 'custom value list'.
At faster rates the custom LFO-Waveforms could be used for 'chip-tune style' arpeggios.
(I'm 'damaged' by chip music and trackers...).
If it's on the road map 'one shot' mode for the LFO's could serve as extra envelopes.
(I would love to control the OSC B start-phase with an envelope as an example).
As mentioned before being able to individually control the pitch of A & B would be nice with an addition of 'mix modes'(add, sub, multiply) and for some truly classic lead sounds oscillator sync.
Can't help to stress it enough but the engine in LayR is amazing but somewhat 'crippled'(for synth-nerds) by the limited modulation routings. (A semi-hidden 'geek mode' could be an option, a simple list of all modulation sources and destinations).
What ever is 'cooking' it's good to know you're here to collect ideas
/Samuel
@skiphunt What's this app that Igor has in the works? Is it going to be universal like the awesome FieldScaper?
I don't know anything about it, other than he promised I'd be very impressed. He seems pretty excited about it. Was estimating about a month, but who knows.
I've been playing with some FabFilter Twin2 presets I bought, layering them, etc. And I just picked up the classic Sunrizer on sale that I didn't already have. I can see why it's so popular!
Grabbed a couple cheap toys to keep me occupied for awhile, so I'm putting this LayR app on the back burner watch list for now. Looks fun, but I'm over my original fascination with it, and would rather wait and see how it matures.
Also want to save my pennies for whatever genius Igor's cookin' up in the lab as this very moment.
Ok - I caved and bought Layr today. Holy cow this thing is lush! I'm finding myself using particular synths for certain roles (Model 15 for bass, Synthmaster Player for leads, iPolySix for that classic Juno-saw-stab sound, etc.) and this is almost certain to be the one for pads. Some of those sounds are just so THICK. I made a quick pad with stereo saw waves and stereo square waves an octave below with a longer attack, and it just bloomed like crazy. Then I chucked in a couple of the pre-built instruments and added some reverb and it just came alive.
The learning curve here is steeper than most as the layout is far from intuitive, but the possibilities are crazy. I gotta dive into this more.