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Comments
LPX and FCPX wow!
Still excited about lpx and fcpx coming to iPad. I can’t find the other thread “logic rumour confirmed“ or so anymore. Has it vanished from the forum or can’t I just find it? Anyone have a link or know why it’s gone?
Edit: Sorry found it: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/38527/logix-pro-coming-to-ios-not-fake-at-least-we-hope/
I think it's more likely Apple gets rid of both products before they bring them to the iPad. Apple has had very little interest in software for years because their is very little profit in it compared to the rest of their business
Wait...what?
Software and services is Apple's second source of revenue. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-revenue-of-apple/
Most if not all the software Apple provides is free for iOS. And they're building themselves to be more software based - https://www.computerworld.com/article/3353038/apple-in-2019-its-all-about-the-software-stupid.amp.html
And Apple doesn't make that many paid software services. Moving Logic and Final Cut (in some form or the other) allows Apple to make a ton more profit from producers, artists, and videographers who use their iPad as their field devices. And it's an investment that can profit them for years to come.
The iPad had almost as good of a revenue generation as a Mac. Considering people don't upgrade their Mac machines for a LONG time ( or people resell their Macbooks a lot easily, thus less return revenue from Apple), it makes sense for Apple to add a little more effort into their iPads. They are lighter, far more portable, have a ton of extra accessories, can be easily replaced, and are user friendly.
The software and services category revenue is mostly from Apple Care, iCloud storage and music subscriptions not from software. I'm a video editor by trade and the majority of companies that used FCP abandoned it years ago because Apple was very slow with development for the software. FCPX was the nail in the coffin because it wasn't viewed as "professional l"app. Apple also got out of enterprise storage and asset software. 99% of the film/tv industry is using Avid or Adobe products (which for the record have all gone subscription based)
I agree that for music the iPad is the present and future which is why I'm here but I still think Apple will make more profit on that side focusing on hardware, iCloud and Apple Care subscription than the expenses of porting FCPX and Logic to iOS. And on the desktop side it seems like everyone now is using Ableton, Pro tools or FL Studio depending on use case and Logic is more of a fringe option for hardcore Apple fanboys that are using it because they've been using it forever
can't imagine using small ipad screen for serious coding... i use 27" monitor 2660x1440 and sometimes i'm thinking about another smaller one just for debugging console...
code on ipad ? hell on earth...
I do video editing on Imac 27, I'm having to do some work on my 13" macbook pro due to AMD/FCPX conflict and it is a positively painful experience in comparison.
I still believe there's value in porting it over. If for anything other than it'll draw Windows and Android users into the Apple ecosystem with the entry level iPads. I'm an example of that. I've bought more apps, software services, within the span of 2 years on Apple than I've bought anything from video games, Windows, and Android devices combined.
Why? Because the simplicity of it allowed me to expand my skills a lot further.
And for their current users, the prospect of continuing their Logic projects on the go, without needing to carry their expensive Macboook pros allows for flexibility. They'd use their Macs for their live performance
The biggest act in 2019 (Billie Eilish/Finneas) use Logic as their DAW of choice. They still use Ableton but for their live set management.
I don't think Logic can compete with where Ableton is right now. But it's not trying to. It has its own niche, and bringing it into iPad OS is a way to stay relevant, while building up return business into Apple's ecosystem.
As a side note, FL Studio Mobile on iOS is really good for the features it has. I was legitimately surprised when I was messing around with the sample projects yesterday. If they decide to finally allow AUv3, then it'll only serve to benefit them in the long run.
It’s definitely not just 1% that uses Final Cut.
The iPad is not presently used by the music industry. I’m sure most people on this forum would agree that the iPad at the moment is a great hobby device. But there definitely is potential that that will change in the very near future. A Logic version for iPad would definitely help with that.
And your claim that Logic on the Mac is only used by some hardcore Apple fanboys. Come on... seriously? 😄
I've been making basic iOS shortcuts on my 9.7 in iPad, and programming Python scripts on it. It's pretty much a modern day notebook.
I recommend getting a larger monitor and using an HDMI converter device. I do have a bigger screen device at home that I use for multi window comparisons (on Windows) but a lot of the times I'm on the go, which is why I like the form factor of the iPad.
In the film and broadcast TV industry it's definitely about 1% of the market. I've been working in the industry for 20 years and I have not known anyone that is using FCPX and I don't know anyone that has used FCP in about 10 years. Parasite was cut on FCP 7 but that's a rarity. I see more people using Resolve professionally now than FCP
Yeah I guess there are not many major film productions done in FCPX but when it comes to indie film making, YouTubers, small production companies etc Final Cut is quite a popular choice due to it’s quick and easy workflow. I guess it’s always a question of work field and maybe even demographics.
I worry more about that if i want to "replace" my macbook with a similar iPad Pro + keyboard setup, same space (and i cannot get the RAM i might need) i save nothing anymore compared to a 13" macbook pro f.e.
One day you realize that you replace a good working machine with another with still some needed workarounds but you pay almost the same. Well, Apple did everything right then
@rms13 when Apple rebooted Logic/FCP it was clear that the target you are pointing and representing aren't in their focus anymore pivoting into what @jacou said and focusing in the entry level users (mostly switchers) like @Samflash3 or even myself (from the Macintel era)
so
It's probably one day we will see Logic/FCP on iPadOS? Maybe.
Will it be like desktop? Maybe but not the best bet.
Will it be enough for their target segment? Well it depends on what Apple says vs truly thinks.
Will it be fot @rms13 segment? Probably not but Apple isn't aiming it to them anymore (just failing with Trashcan and going ARM... talking about Post-pc trucks...)
Will be Universal app? Probably not. Maybe it will arrive a day where desktop = iPadOS (on the Pro units) but due Apple has been stagnating development (for optimisation) waiting for the day they can jump into ARM. Pro Macs and Pro iPads will have special features which majority of prosumers (those who pointed @jacou) will never need. Even it's possible Apple port some of these features as cloud services so you can do basic stuff at you iPad and then render on the cloud instead full clouding like Adobe. Think in Nvidia Grid or Amazon AWS running renders in cloud computing... for 20€/month or similar.
The mac hardware will be like the dongle (as actually is) to use these powerful tools and it could even develop special tooling for @rms13 tier if these day still exist as profitable niche for Apple interests.
Think it twice. Put yourselves in the eyes of the other (including Apple) and make your numbers and understand how a iPad Pro + Pro cloud services could it be more powerful than the regular PC workstation at the same time.
i could care less about logic for ios. Now, bring ableton to the platform and then im excited.
+1 although probably never going to happen
I agree with everything you said
On a side note, everyone I work with are hardcore Apple fanatics. Macs are the only tool for creatives, Macs are so much simpler, Macs just work etc. Now because of this new remote work world we are in we've been forced to switch to Windows because it just works better in our company's set up using vpns, virtual machines etc. There was about one day of moaning and groaning from people and everyone quickly realized that there is basically no difference especially when you spend your entire day within one application that is identical on Windows and Mac.
Same here 😄 I’m working on a 27“ i7 iMac now and surely there will be lots of sacrifice when going for the switch. But at the same time I enjoy to reduce and being minimalistic. I will gain the maximum of physical flexibility, can work in my studio or on a couch or on the go. Reduction can increase creativity. If Logic just has enough features to not be in the way of a proper song production I can balance out the lacks with AUv3s.
The RAM hopefully will be upgraded in the next iPad Pro. But all apps are designed to use little RAM. I guess in the age of SSD that’s more possible now than in the age of classic HDs.
There will be a way. I’m willing to accept the challenge.. I envisioned a pro iPad setup for too long. I’m biased.. it’s too late 😆
Yup. I'm switching into hardware and looking at my mac hardware as standalones (mac mini for Garageband and few apps...), iPad mini for some music theory and so (lumbeat, loopers...) and iPhone less even. I bought a Rc505, synths, looking for samplers/grooveboxes... and I'm not a "pro" but I figured that and understood where my "place" is and will be. Sad times to be fair...
Recently I get a windows tablet fujitsu and it's interesting. I need to test it with traktor/ableton (i5 8gb) but ATM more than enough for what I could need... adaptation if you want to see like that.
I hope the leaked image from new Logic Live Loops will come to Mainstage too but with Roland Zenbeats on this wintablet maybe I will not need it after all.
@Samflash3 makes a lot of good points. and provides sources : )
I heard a program on NPR a little while back that talked about how Apple are slowly merging into becoming a 'services' company with that being their main focus and dominant income. sounds crazy that they would be moving away from devices and software but they are. Product sales are slipping while their services sales are increasing.
why did Apple release the iPhone SE during the pandemic and an uncertain financial situation? because once someone buys the 'inexpensive' device they will also likely purchase their services.. Apple Music, App Store sales, News+, iCloud, Apple TV+, Apple Arcade, AppleCard, etc. which is continuous income for Apple. Logic is so low among their priorities that I can't see them making it available on iOS. what would be the benefit to them? They don't see music creators as enough of an important market to invest any time into, yet. I hope that changes but not seeing much that signals a move in that direction. and i am a music maker using iPads, iphones, Logic, etc. ;0
https://intego.com/mac-security-blog/how-apple-is-changing-from-a-hardware-company-to-a-services-and-media-company/
https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/30/services-really-are-becoming-a-bigger-part-of-apples-business/
https://intego.com/mac-security-blog/apple-solidifies-its-transition-to-a-services-company/
.
Also, @rms13, Logic and FCP are by no means fringe products .. both are just as popular and used by just as many professionals and award winning creators as their counterparts. Any info showing either as "1% of the market" would be welcomed.
That might be true to a degree as Apple is introducing services like crazy lately but I don’t think they would move away from iPhone anytime soon as it is by far the best selling Apple device. Apples Mac sales compared to iPhone are rather low. So in the long run it would make sense to transition from Mac to iPad as the iPad is much more similar to iPhone and iOS. So manufacturing and software engineering could be done in a rather similar way. Well that’s my theory.
Another reason why some of us hope for a LPX/FCPX version for iOS is this tweet by Jon Prosser (who has a good track record when it comes to rumour accuracy):
Yes, i've seen the Prosser tweet. but that's the only source for this speculation. On the contrary, out in the open, is Apple's Project Marzipan renamed Project Catalyst which is a move in the opposite direction ..allowing iOS apps to run on Macs.
https://computerworld.com/article/3331945/an-enterprise-take-on-apples-project-marzipan.html
https://computerworld.com/article/3526463/apples-mac-catalyst-is-becoming-very-very-serious.html
"Todd Benjamin, Apple’s macOS product marketing director in 2019, explained:
“Our vision for Mac Catalyst was always to make it easier for any iPad app developer, big or small, to bring their app to the Mac.... Not only is this great for developers, but it’s also great for Mac users, who benefit with access to a whole new selection of great app experiences from iPad’s vibrant ecosystem.”
There’s a significant benefit to enterprise developers, of course, in that it’s now more likely they will build software first for iPad and port this to iPhone and Mac."
@jacou i agree. i don't think the iPhone, iPad or Mac are going anywhere either. They will simply become less of the flagship product and more so the required tool for providing the services.
Probably desktop/laptop will survive but, being Apple the masters of lies, Marzipan/Catalyst seems more a new-Rosetta than the door for macOS big sales...
Once you have iOS versions running on macOS you start deleting layers from macOS until you get an iPadOS for mac. If you think they renamed OSX into macOS to make the whole family... iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, tvOS... but the technology is coming back from iOS to macOS (after it gone from OSX to iOS back in the day).
Apple will keep macOS alive but in less than a year the first mac with ARM will be delivered and things will get interesting. Firstly it will run macOS but sooner than later it will run that iPadOS (when these finally merge). Mouse on iPadOs, Catalyst, Adobe on iPadOS, touchbar on MBP, etc...
They are merging but saying "It doesn't makes sense merging these..." until they have it done. Remember the PPC era, don't buy the lies... but as I said FCP/Logic for that OS will not be the same version like actual macOS.
In the best scenario possible the app will change depending on the host (desktop/Laptop vs iPad) ala nintendo switch (or like win10 but rightly done lol) and that's what more or less means Garagaband iOS and Logic Remote... but until they want to keep selling x86 desktops it will not happen for sure (because doesn't makes sense, remember?).
The question is "Have Apple the ARM chips ready to fight against Intels?" ...not one to one obviously, but as a "system"...?
Since Apple controls the design and more or less the manufacture they could release a new mainboard with nARM chips and even an hybrid one with x86 chips and ARM working (now it's happening with some parts) so imagine Apple going for that segment (not the higher tier which will be Xeon territory and probably Apple is looking into AMD), just for the non-pro desktops/laptops. It will be less painful than the PPC>Intel era since most of the users come from iPhone/iPad so these are getting more features instead losing them (desktop works in opposite direction being FCP/Logic the best example).
It's just a matter of time because it's happening. That's why that tweet has some possible value. If you port XCode the pieces are setting them in place step by step...
Yeah you’re right there is no other source for the Logic/Final Cut speculation. But my feeling is that Jon must have clear evidence to tweet about that rumour twice and even saying that he’s 100% confident. Sounds very promising to me
I see project Catalyst as a clear sign that Apple prioritises iOS/iPadOS over MacOS. They also could have introduced a project to make Mac apps compatible with iPadOS (which actually wouldn’t make much sense). But developers have to write software for iPad first that also will run on Mac.
So that might encourage many to start developing for iPad to have the best compatibility. Anyway..
It’s cool that you post sources! Sorry for my laziness of research. Can only speak from what I remember of the articles etc. that I read in the past.
I agree with you. I’m also sure Apple will sneak away from MacOS slowly moving to iPadOS as the main system. MacOS feels a bit abandoned already. No major changes since... oh well... a long time. All the excitement about MacOS is gone. No more big WWDC MacOS announcements.
Also agree that there is no way the logic guys will be able to get all features into the iPad version. I’d be happy if Logic will be a noticeable step up from GarageBand.
But let’s see. Maybe they’ll have a surprise for us.
@jacou let’s hope... I will be happy if Mainstage gets Live loops and keeps compatiblity to High Sierra... or I will keep myself to zenbeats and win10 tablet.
11 days till WWDC 2020
UPD. Oops, 1 month 11 days
Yup I expect new Logic with libe loops leaked over these days...
I am actually still in tears laughing at Logic and FCPX being fringe 1% marketshare products, a classic example of using online presence (social media click whore warriors) as a metric.
Here is an official company metric that you need to consider when using click whore culture as a metric, FL Studio has more free and illegal installs than paid installs.
Ableton has click whore culture sewn up, especially via YouTube, nearly all of that content is rinse and repeat (copied from somebody else on youtube) and veryfew of those content creators have ever bought Ableton or indeed take music making as anything more than to collect clicks.
Just because a userbase has very little online presence, does not mean it is fringe.