Geoshred /Swam Collaborate - Just Wow! - IAP

ion677

@McD said:

@ion677 said:
Here’s another demo of GeoShred cello.

Very convincing and moving performance. I must get this... unfortunately my initial purchase
can't be credited on the bundle so I'll pick 'em off 1 at a time.

@royor said:

@ion677 said:
Here’s another demo of GeoShred cello. Trying to demonstrate a couple velocities and articulations. I’m pretty excited about having these, and I may spring for the violins too.

Gorgeous! Great piece + performance.. 👏 I’d say you demoed the velocities + articulations quite well..

Thank you 🙏🏼

Gavinski

@McD said:
If you are on the fence because of the MIDI Controller/Generatorissue you should JUMP off and get one of these instruments.

@cuscolima slipped me a clue. Just use MIDI channels greater than 1 and GeoShred will treat the input as valid MPE. So, set the AUM keyboard to channel 2 or Fugue Machine's output channels to 2-5 and use 4 copies of GeoShred for each input and you can get polyphonic GeoFlutes, etc.

I tested PolyThemus which distributes incoming chords across channels 2-15 and started 4 GeoShreds and created a simple polyphonic demo using GeoViolin:

This should be configurable in any DAW. So, you can use your typical MIDI workflows by avoiding Channel 1.

Nice tip!

RajahP

@Gavinski said:

@McD said:
If you are on the fence because of the MIDI Controller/Generatorissue you should JUMP off and get one of these instruments.

@cuscolima slipped me a clue. Just use MIDI channels greater than 1 and GeoShred will treat the input as valid MPE. So, set the AUM keyboard to channel 2 or Fugue Machine's output channels to 2-5 and use 4 copies of GeoShred for each input and you can get polyphonic GeoFlutes, etc.

I tested PolyThemus which distributes incoming chords across channels 2-15 and started 4 GeoShreds and created a simple polyphonic demo using GeoViolin:

This should be configurable in any DAW. So, you can use your typical MIDI workflows by avoiding Channel 1.

Nice tip!

Thanks.. SPA is bliss driving this...

Gavinski

Beautiful with Fugue Machine too, oh, I'm So glad there's a way to do this

McD

@Gavinski said:
Beautiful with Fugue Machine too, oh, I'm So glad there's a way to do this

This configuration trick will help sell a lot more GeoInstruments for Forum members.
Most average punters will miss the trick and many will probably refund on the app
because their controller will not appear to work since MPE might not be something they
understand.

A nice video would help explain how MPE uses channels 2-15 to send out chords that
allow pitch bending per note. The MPE spec tried really hard NOT to break MIDI for the rest of us and now we can benefit from their design with this configuration when we don't own
a Roli.

Now I need to go and re-visit my "Noise SWAN Strings" and see if channel 2 on my keyboard does anything to it.

UPDATE: Noise is a Roli app and it's locked up tight to any external MIDI access. It waits for a Roli Seaboard or Block device to be attached.

TheOriginalPaulB

@McD said:

UPDATE: Noise is a Roli app and it's locked up tight to any external MIDI access. It waits for a Roli Seaboard or Block device to be attached.

Yup. Roli suck, although I did find a way to record the standalone output via Audiobus 3.

Krupa

I take it that MIDI in only works with GeoShred Pro / upgraded?

kurth

@moForte ....I'd like to make a humble request/suggestion. Accordian and Harmonica, both extremely difficult. Not orchestra instruments per se, but both intrinsic to modern music.

Paulo164

@kurth said:
@moForte ....I'd like to make a humble request/suggestion. Accordian and Harmonica, both extremely difficult. Not orchestra instruments per se, but both intrinsic to modern music.

I would add some « requests » even more achievable because close to what the existing guitar model does : oud, bouzouki, koto and other oriental/ethnic instruments and even a harp. It would be nice to see GeoShred become progressively an host for great realistic stringed instruments. This business model would be supported with IAPs in the way of Beathawk or Module.

sclurbs

@RajahP said:

@Gavinski said:

@McD said:
If you are on the fence because of the MIDI Controller/Generatorissue you should JUMP off and get one of these instruments.

@cuscolima slipped me a clue. Just use MIDI channels greater than 1 and GeoShred will treat the input as valid MPE. So, set the AUM keyboard to channel 2 or Fugue Machine's output channels to 2-5 and use 4 copies of GeoShred for each input and you can get polyphonic GeoFlutes, etc.

I tested PolyThemus which distributes incoming chords across channels 2-15 and started 4 GeoShreds and created a simple polyphonic demo using GeoViolin:

This should be configurable in any DAW. So, you can use your typical MIDI workflows by avoiding Channel 1.

Nice tip!

Thanks.. SPA is bliss driving this...

Game changers on game changers! Is there a way to do this in 4pockets MIDI Strummer?

sclurbs

@Paulo164 said:

@kurth said:
@moForte ....I'd like to make a humble request/suggestion. Accordian and Harmonica, both extremely difficult. Not orchestra instruments per se, but both intrinsic to modern music.

I would add some « requests » even more achievable because close to what the existing guitar model does : oud, bouzouki, koto and other oriental/ethnic instruments and even a harp. It would be nice to see GeoShred become progressively an host for great realistic stringed instruments. This business model would be supported with IAPs in the way of Beathawk or Module.

Oh hell yeah. A koto, guzheng, or something like that. Would be like sonic serotonin.

I was wondering how the accordion or harmonica action could work, because pitch shifting when pushing it out/ in is such a massive part of the sound. You could tie that to channel pressure, so when you are pushing down, it's acting like you're pushing in an accordion, and vice versa. This would give you essentially a digital accordion with unlimited in/out space that in real life would be 10's of miles long. Volume couldn't be mapped to channel pressure though for this to work.....

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Paulo164 said:

I would add some « requests » even more achievable because close to what the existing guitar model does : oud, bouzouki, koto and other oriental/ethnic instruments and even a harp. It would be nice to see GeoShred become progressively an host for great realistic stringed instruments.

Should be able to get pretty close already with the existing engine. GeoShred’s potential is really underexplored by sound designers. It’s very fertile ground.

DSCB57

I’d like to see a physical controller which embodies the functionality and philosophy of Geoshred - maybe picking up where something like the I1 left off (considering that technology is continually evolving and the Instrument 1 is possibly getting a little long in the tooth now). The great advantage to this would be both a less limited keyboard/fretboard, pitch rounding and the facility for haptic feedback for different functions and techniques - and I’d also like to see the possibility of directly interfacing with an external breath controller and similar devices.

RajahP

Seems so.. Channel 2 and above.. I guess..

McD

@RajahP said:
Seems so.. Channel 2 and above.. I guess..![]

It's still monophonic however. You won't get Polyphony with the SWAM instruments unless
you use the Polythemus note routing app and run multiple instances. 3 instances is solid and 4 and above you're going to get dropouts. 4 might work if you avoid the usual FX treatments. There are 22 "stomp FX" inside Goeshred to pull from and create your own presets: EQ, Verbs, Delay, Compression, Amp/Cab, etc.

Paulo164

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Paulo164 said:

I would add some « requests » even more achievable because close to what the existing guitar model does : oud, bouzouki, koto and other oriental/ethnic instruments and even a harp. It would be nice to see GeoShred become progressively an host for great realistic stringed instruments.

Should be able to get pretty close already with the existing engine. GeoShred’s potential is really underexplored by sound designers. It’s very fertile ground.

I have spent hours on tweeking guitar models but nothing comes close in my opinion to a bouzouki, an oud or a harp...

TheOriginalPaulB

@McD said:

@RajahP said:
Seems so.. Channel 2 and above.. I guess..![]

It's still monophonic however. You won't get Polyphony with the SWAM instruments unless
you use the Polythemus note routing app and run multiple instances. 3 instances is solid and 4 and above you're going to get dropouts. 4 might work if you avoid the usual FX treatments. There are 22 "stomp FX" inside Goeshred to pull from and create your own presets: EQ, Verbs, Delay, Compression, Amp/Cab, etc.

You’ll probably find that using Polythemus will mess with any low velocity overlapped notes triggered portamento, however.

Gavinski

Was just having a play with Polythemus with these, very nice!

Is anyone having any problems in aum with sessions with multiple instances. Could someone try to replicate this please:

In aum make a session with 3 GeoShreds. Put all the presets to, say, cello. Close and reload the session. Now none of them are cello any more they are all shred guitar preset. I didn't have this problem with sessions with just one instance.

But some other problems. Had a session with 2 GeoShreds. Touched one and both died immediately. Anyone else having such kinds of things happen?

Charlesalbert

@Gavinski said:
Was just having a play with Polythemus with these, very nice!

Is anyone having any problems in aum with sessions with multiple instances. Could someone try to replicate this please:

In aum make a session with 3 GeoShreds. Put all the presets to, say, cello. Close and reload the session. Now none of them are cello any more they are all shred guitar preset. I didn't have this problem with sessions with just one instance.

But some other problems. Had a session with 2 GeoShreds. Touched one and both died immediately. Anyone else having such kinds of things happen?

Same here.

Gavinski

Thanks Charles, if a few ppl can replicate we'll know there's definitely a problem

Doggielama

@Masanga said:

@moForte said:

@DSCB57 said:

@Masanga said:

@moForte said:

@DSCB57 said:

@Treaszure said:
@moForte Since the Jamstik Studio MIDI guitar is an MPE device will it work flawlessly and will it be recognized as an MPE device or is it only certain MPE devices like Roli/Linnstrument that is compatible?

I would ask the same about the Artiphon Instrument 1, also being an MPE controller - is it compatible?

We have an Artiphone Instrument 1 MIDI configuration built into GeoShred. I don't recall if it was fully MPE. I'll pull It out next week and look.

The I1 has been fully MPE-compliant since early 2017, though it may not have been yet when the GeoShred configuration was added. But the GeoSWAM instruments also seem to work fine with it using the other MPE configurations built in, including the Seaboard one. I haven't tested all parameters systematically, though.

Thank you. I assume that these were implemented via firmware updates on the I1, so a 2016 model with the latest firmware should be good to go?

I want to reply very directly to both of your questions. I will look a the Instrument1 again next week. With the earlier firmware there was not a pitchRounding algorithm, and thus it was difficult to play in tune unless you used finger vibrato. Both the LinnStrument and the Seaboard have pitchRounding Algorithms.

It's my opinion that controllers that deal with fluid pitch, really need to have pitchRounding, or the performer will struggle. That is why we made pitchRounding such a central part of how playing from the glass works (ie the GeoShred Keyboard).

Artiphon have always been rather resistant to pitch rounding; it may be because their CEO is a string player, but this has been a big – probably the biggest – longstanding request in their forums, at least as an option. It's not terrible with the GeoSWAM instruments as is, and as you say, it's possible to cheat your way through it with judiciously outrageous use of vibrato; I've just spent an evening with the GeoCello and as often with the I1 you find yourself getting better at it without quite knowing what you're doing differently. But horribly off pitches are still easy to hit unless you stay timidly in tap mode (in which, in fairness, they're also lovely).

Just wanted to chime in on this, I have been extremely persistent on the Artiphone forum regarding the need for Pitch rounding on the I1… To no avail! The odd thing is (and I’ve talked with Pat at Moforte about this before) Geo shred seems to handle midi input from the I1 differently then other sources.If all was right in the universe, a note anywhere on the fret of the I1 would be in tune, and proceed linearly toward the pitch In either direction (just like Geoshred’s UI). Controlling other SYNTHS with the L one in fretless mode results in the pitch being correct just before the fret (not on the fret like a real fretless instrument!!) but with GeoShred the pitch seems out only in the middle of the area between two frets. Try layering another MPE synth on top of Geoshred and you will hear the pitch discrepancies… That said, playing the SWAM Instruments from the I1 is has breathed much needed life into it.

McD

@Doggielama said:
Try layering another MPE synth on top of Geoshred and you will hear the pitch discrepancies… That said, playing the SWAM Instruments from the I1 is has breathed much needed life into it.

I think there's a pitch adjustment in GeoShred you could use to address this issue and "tune"
it for your controller. Try these steps:

vertical ...
"Performance Settings"
Control TAB in Pop-up
MIDI Out Tuning
Fine Tune (cents) and Coasrse Tune (semitones)

Adjust the Fine tuning to match a second synth or a droning A=440.

If it's NOT MIDI out that needs tweaking... each instrument has fine and coarse tuning settings to change it's pitch reference.

Doggielama

Thanks for the input... but I don’t think so. Let’s take an A , so the pitch should be correct between frets 4 and 5. With GS as a destination touch just above (past) 4... now slide up slowly. You should hear the pitch (mostly in tune) dip flat and return to pitch as you near (just behind)5. Now don’t remove it, slide back down- the note doesn’t return to pitch, it only goes flat. I’ve tried many other sound sources and none behave like this... just above 4 is always way flat. Hope this makes sense.

McD

@Doggielama said:
Hope this makes sense.

It makes general sense but I'd need an I1 and you indicate it's probably not a great idea.
I should Google to see what it looks like... hold on. OK. I've spent that controller and it's not crazy expensive ($300).

I think a really careful analysis of the pitch events. MIDI really only offers pitch bend and then many controllers and apps implement custom CC's to do more. Pitch bend is NOT a CC.

MPE uses pitch bend to allow a note within a chord to implement individual vibratos by
splitting chords across multiple MIDI channels and standardizing on pitch bends to cover +/-
2 octaves or a 4 octave range so you can glissando all around slide a slide guitar after an attack. That's powerful.

What you are describing is starting a note that immediately needs a very precise detuning via pitch bend. Then you want very precise tracking of the fret positioning to simulate the
sonic effects of a slide guitar on the fretboard.

It would be helpful to see the MIDI stream (using something like MIDIspy) of of the note attack and afterwards for:

destination touch just above (past) 4... now slide up slowly.

If the I1 is send an attack with the pitch bend modification and then more pitch bends then
Geoshred needs to be looked into. If I1 doesn't send a detuned (pitch modified) NOTE ON event then GeoShred is just following the input stream as described.

LinearLineman

@McD, I tried your instructions re assigns parameters to wheels, knobs and pedals. Total failure, unfortunately. However, my workaround of recording the expression track over the unadorned notes should work out ok.

McD

@LinearLineman said:
@McD, I tried your instructions re assigns parameters to wheels, knobs and pedals. Total failure, unfortunately. However, my workaround of recording the expression track over the unadorned notes should work out ok.

Did you try "LEARN"? After you hit Learn you use the knob, wheel or pedal and the configuration is set. I suspect, that just use the control toggle the LERAN off but I haven't tried it yet.

Can anyone else join in the troubleshooting to resolve the issue for @LinearLineman?
Maybe I left out a step or am assuming too much about the MIDi Learn feature.

LinearLineman

@McD, yep, enabled learn.... but you have to disable it after?

McD

@LinearLineman said:
@McD, yep, enabled learn.... but you have to disable it after?

When I use LEARN it shows the incoming Control Type (Expression = 1, Breath = 2, etc) that
is detects from the input keyboard. To program it you then hit LEARN to lock it in and back out of the menu. I find the response time to be really slow on the control widgets I tested.

marmakin

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@McD said:

UPDATE: Noise is a Roli app and it's locked up tight to any external MIDI access. It waits for a Roli Seaboard or Block device to be attached.

Yup. Roli suck, although I did find a way to record the standalone output via Audiobus 3.

Would you mind sharing how? Thank you!

DSCB57

@marmakin said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@McD said:

UPDATE: Noise is a Roli app and it's locked up tight to any external MIDI access. It waits for a Roli Seaboard or Block device to be attached.

Yup. Roli suck, although I did find a way to record the standalone output via Audiobus 3.

Would you mind sharing how? Thank you!

+1 please!