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So, about this coronavirus...
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Bats, cats or rats, nature is wonderful and equally disturbing, humanity even more so.
The number 15 is BS. My wife has friend at JR oxford in virology dep. Apparently there’s more but > @InfoCheck said:
You’ve largely circumvented my argument. Anyway, leaving aside the philosophical and focusing on the practical. I didn’t say that it is easy to isolate the vulnerable as I myself work with vulnerable people. However it is not impossible and certainly easier than deploying arm forces to cordon off a geographic area and organise shipments of citizens to and through etc etc. Identify, isolate and let it through. This virus will mutate before you finish eating your ice cream, in fact it has already mutated. The war has already been lost. Better luck next time, which will happen probably not that far into the future and certainly within most of our lifetimes.
“ Ministers have revealed in parliamentary answers that there are 15 available beds for adult extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) treatment at five centres across England.”
So the government are lying, saying there are less available than there actually are?
I find that hard to believe, if anything they’ll state the opposite.
6 stopping 7 becoming 8
No, sorry I was talking about about confirmed cases.
If I think about him for too long my blood pressure starts rocketing skyward but...You’d think this situation would concern the GOP’s who have so far co-signed every awful idea Donald Trump has. The man discounts science and fact to a startling degree and his supporters parrot his ignorance.
He doesn’t understand the difference between climate and weather. The majority of his cabinet members are on record as not believing in evolution. The Secretary of Health & Human Services Alex Azar is a former pharma lobbyist with no expertise in medicine outside how much a company should sell their drugs for!
Like most narcissistic personalities, Trump discounts & distrusts anything he can’t grasp. So now the WHO joins the FBI, CIA, NSA, all branches of the military & the global scientific community as just another entity that Trump has said he is smarter than in front of a live TV audience. Just like with Mexico paying for the Wall, releasing his tax returns, every American getting “the best ever” healthcare etc., since Trump said the threat of the virus will be over by spring, with plenty of “believe me’s” to boot, what are we worried about friends?
Take a deep breath. Not everything bad in the world is the result of conservatives.
Or, just keep politicizing shit to make yourself feel better.
It doesn’t really matter.
@robertreynolds : true that not everything boils down to politics. Unfortunately, in the US funding for public health has been severely reduced by this administration and scientists in government positions have largely been made to feel that their jobs are in peril if they criticize Trumps’ positions. These are facts. The administration IS dominated by evangelicals that are openly hostile to science (at least any science at odds with their over literal interpretation n of the Bible). You are free to be in agreement with those policies but I don’t think any of what I have just written is debatable.
I was born & raised in NV which is a fairly conservative state, even in my hometown Las Vegas. I have friends who are conservatives as well as family. A few who care more about right & wrong than “winning!” and power retention have given me insight to just how far away Trump is from being a true conservative. The post wasn’t attacking conservatives, it was attacking Trump.
I’ve never seen such unerring devotion towards someone who is so devoid of any redeeming qualities. Trump supporters won’t even criticize the guy in the abstract; it’s full bore cult of celebrity devotion bordering on worship. And the real key is how hypocritical the whole endeavor is. I routinely challenge hardcore Trump marks to the “180 degree test”: What if Obama had done/said that?
Can you look in the mirror and honestly say that if it were Obama hiding his taxes, receiving propaganda & digital hacking support from Russia, encouraging interference in our elections from foreign countries and continually failing fact checks on his tweets and speeches it would not have bothered you at all?
You don’t really have to answer that, I already know.
God works in mysterious and shitty ways. The US CIC can now demonstrate his stable genius and if it backfires and people remember his dismissive ness and arrogance... well, maybe he just won’t be re-elected.
@robertreynolds, my friend. Do you really equate Trump with conservatism? I thought conservatives believed in fiduciary responsibility? Or maybe they just used to. Even that Great American hero Limbaugh admitted that he and his crowd never believed being fiscally responsible was ever important.
Call a spade a spade and a Don a Con. Sorry, I didn’t used to call people stupid names till our mighty leader showed me the light... King ConDon. Oh yes, the vaccine is almost here. My daddy told me so.
We can't get anyone across the chasm with insults.
Remember when Bill Clinton got that blow jpb from an intern and democrats just rationalized that he was doing other good things and this was consensual sex.
Most Trump followers just like that fact that Trump riles up Democrats and does some "Homeland Uber Alles" style authoritarian shit that they like and support. That's the only way to comprehend evangelical support. He gives them the policies and enforcement they want. Old people in general believe the world is going to hell. Hard to argue that one. They know he's a douche of a human but like his "better qualities" and the results like stopping "outsiders" from getting in or killing off big government and firing experts and lowering taxes (they have not unraveled that little bit of slight of hand yet) and stopping jobs from flowing to Mexico and China (though there's little evidence he's done more than raise the price of imported goods that we buy anyway so we're playing the extra costs).
Anyway, insulting their intelligence is alot like their maligning ours and our total lack of morality and the proper fear of God. We love to kill babies, right so we can have more unprotected sex.
The best way to win the future is just play to the independents. Increasingly I'm becoming an independent because my vote allegiance isn't tied to a party but actively searching for some shred of pragmatic since about how to turn the battleship towards something resembling sanity and a government "by the people, for the people." I have a dream but lately they are mostly nightmares of a complete breakdown of the institutions and norms we had that are now being assailed on every side by people with ideologies that seem counter productive to the things I'd prefer get changed.
Incomes continue to flow up to a ethically compromised class of overlords and inherited wealth "Lords" like the Trump douche and his entitled spawn.
"Theres one born every minute" P.T. Barnum. Not naming names or calling anyone out but the group mind seems split and without any sense.
Maybe they will get concerned about being played if 5% of the population gets ill and dies. He'll try to spin it back on democrats but that might be a bridge too far... one can only hope. The stock market crashing will turn the big money folks against his "how does this impact me?" approach to all facts.
It's terrible to wish for catastrophes to hope more people just wake the fuck up to hope clueless this clown and his followers are about running the world.
@McD Excellent post. I just wish people would use the technology we have to educate themselves before they drink so much of the Kool Aid they can't be helped.
We have the entire history of mankind and billions, with a B, billions of books, essays, journals, etc. in our pockets yet most use their smartphone/laptop for Facebook & Pornhub. Not that there's anything wrong with
Pornhub. Don't get me started on Facebook...
Don't watch Fox News, CNN, BBC, etc. for real info. There will be facts reported yes but not reliably. Read our own US or UK reports and mandated yearly agendas, etc.
The Treasury has reported that (shock!) The GOP tax cuts didn't trickle down, they only enriched the top .05%. That "invasion" of brown people, etc? The census reports the US white population at close to 70%, STILL, after all if these supposed immigrant takeovers. 85% of the jobs immigrants take are jobs that wouldn't be & couldn't be filled by the American employee pool (i.e. fruit cultivation labor, under $7 an hour to clean toilets, wash dishes and make beds, etc).
Facts. Not very popular with half the electorate any longer. In Oct. Trump went in front of reporters on live TV and admitted he called the Ukrain re: investigating his likely political opponent Joe Biden, plus he doubled down saying China should as well. On LIVE TV. For over two months of the impeachment saga the GOP's defense was Trump NEVER called & asked Zelensky to investigate Biden, not just as a quid pro quo, but they said he didn't do it PERIOD. The last week of the trial their defense changed to YES he did ask for Biden to be investigated or else no aid was going to be delivered BUT, it wasn't an impeachable offense.
For two months McConnell, Trump, et al lied to the American people and on a dime flip flopped like there was nothing to see here...We are living through the Death of Truth and Republican Conservatives just do not care. So sorry if my expectations on how they'll handle a complex nuanced situation like a percolating pandemic are exceedingly low.
We're not supposed to talk politics but facts should be allowed. Too bad we all use our own facts. I like yours and I suspect the have authoritative sources. But we all tend to filter facts to our needs.
Historians claim that things have been worse at various times in our history... the civil war period was a real low point for a chasm that still hasn't been effectively closed.
It would be nice (and respectful of our gracious host’s wishes) if everyone could drop the politics.
As much as I do feel politics is a disease, that’s not the disease the topic is dealing with. That discussion is actually interesting and useful too.
As much as I might agree with your sentiment, I don't think the two politics and this virus can be divorced at this time in our history.
But I'm no further going to fan any flames.
No problem then. I’m out. Y’all have fun.
Agree with your sentiments. This thread will only end up winding people up and bringing out the worse aspects of our community. We’ve learnt time and time again that politics on this forum is just a recipe for disaster.
We all fall for its trap. I did early when I commented on ‘remoaners’, like a big kid calling names just to wind people up. I should have known better - not because someone might have felt offence, because people are offended at times no matter what we do in life, but it was just rather childish of me. We all fall for it now and again, especially when we see a group vomiting forth an agreement of a specific ideology, like it came forth from the heavens and they ere the new prophets. Problem is though, winding up zealots just makes them worse.
So I apologise for joining in, even if in a small way - I now back out and will let you that want to rant and rave your political opinions until you can find a nice juicy mob fight against those opposing ‘unbelievers of a neighbouring state’ (Zappa).....sure many of you know the rest of that album
Facts are over. You fact-liking people lost, get over it.
Problem with the use of the word ‘remoaner’, is that it’s used as an insult against the 48% of voters who wanted to stay in the EU, by leave voters. And there’s an element of trying to stifle alternative opinion, on the biggest issue the UK has faced in generations, as well as the divisive name calling. Johnson has stated we mustn’t even refer to Brexit as Brexit, as he doesn’t want the predicted shitstorm to be connected with his personal involvement in the leave campaign.
So not only are those of us who voted to remain having to live with the negative effects of leaving the EU, we get insulted and told we can’t even discuss it any more. So it rankles. You ‘won’, no need to rub it in, and don’t tell me to keep quiet about it.
I’m not talking about you personally Mr Bat, I love you obviously, I’m talking about ‘them’.
But anyway, in response to @wim I think we should be able to discuss politics in a grown up, respectful way on here, as it affects almost every single part of our lives. And many creatives and musicians traditionally use their skills to inform and enlighten listeners, readers, viewers, about stuff that maybe the mainstream media isn’t telling them about. It’s what we do.
Some of us on here might die because of this virus, and it might be due to our government giving our money, to their rich friends, instead of investing it in healthcare. We need to talk about this stuff.
But no name calling. Don’t make it personal. Be kind to each other. There are more worthy targets out there causing the problems many of us are having to endure.
Yes, I admit I personally need to rise up and be better than that, hence my open apology.
It obviously happens from all quarters though. As you have felt insulted from people who voted to leave, many of us who voted to leave have been insulted by comments from those who voted to remain. I would never try to insult your intelligence Mr Monzo, and I’m sure you in return would not wish to insult mine. This has not been the case though for much of the last three years from many who have insulted and tried to belittle the 52%.
I’ve only been here about five years and it was obvious to myself that while us two have fundamental differences of opinion, we are both pretty decent guys, who have a great love for music in common. I heartily agree with your final sentence too. I do however disagree that any political discussion here tends to end well, but that’s why I decided to bow out of it and keep my peace - I respect you all to make your own choices on the matter
You too. As for the disagreement on political discussion, I just think that's something we all need to work on, including me. Otherwise there's a great big elephant in the thread.
As it happens, two of my best mates locally are proper right-wing Brexit/UKIP/Tory voters, and full-on climate change deniers. As a green, remain voting, lefty hippy, most of my other friends wonder how we can possibly get on so well since we're at total odds on so many things.
Easy. Apart from their political leanings, they're both lovely blokes, and both have gone out of their way at times to do things to help me when my lefty right-on friends were nowhere to be seen.
We're multi-faceted-dimensional beings made from meat and electricity and ghosts, and no one thing can define us. Look for the good bits and we'll all be ok.
I actually really like it when I'm proven wrong. Obviously it never happens, but if one of my mates points out a glaring error in my pro-EU comments, then I've learned something new. Just like their drip-feed of Daily Mail 'facts', sometimes my Guardianista world might become too blinkered, and they're on hand to put me straight.
Facts are very unfashionable these days, but I like them.
Well said mate.
Edit: putting social groups against each other is the oldest trick in the book. Sort of domestic divide and conquer for which us regular humans fall all too easily.
To be honest, it's not the insults that bother me, it's the unprecedented wholesale removal of rights and privileges from citizens of a democratic state that I'm angry about. Rubbing salt in those wounds invites a reaction.
I always used to find the left / right divide such a crutch that many used to keep opinion decided and hence hold on to their power. I have mostly classed myself to be mostly centre ground on much politically, sometimes wildly swinging (not swinger!
), slightly left leaning. Problem is with any definitions, they vary wildly upon the social times that we reside. Friends who once called me ‘one of them’, now call me ‘far right’ and fail to see that my views while moving here and their, have not in actuality changed that much - so how did such a wild swing to the right happen? It’s obvious really that it didn’t. I change my views like all of us as I am affected by life and my surroundings, but the metrics have clearly changed and right / left as a descriptor, no longer has clarity.
You are indeed correct though, that a person cannot be judged by one aspect alone. It is indeed often better to judge a man by his actions than by his words or as my old mate Colin would have said “judge a woman not by her tits - that is my job and my job alone”
Colin could be a bit of a bigoted bastard at times in many ways, but I couldn’t have had a better friend at times and would still trust him over my more left leaning friends when giving support was not the easy or self serving option 
Pretty amazing how American people is.....american.
I love this kind of americancentrism. It's very silly and....even kind.
I think because politics have become so polarised, mostly due to Brexit. As @supadom said, division is used to conquer, and creating division has been ruthlessly used by politicians (on both sides) to extremes here (and in the U.S.) over the last few years to gain power.
That's why we should be sensitive to name-calling - that's what they want us to do. They want us to fight amongst ourselves instead of questioning what they're up to. And what they're up to is terrifying - we're facing an ecological catastrophe (as well as all the other stuff) and the rich and elite are attempting a land grab on a massive scale, and they will do it by slowly eroding our rights and freedoms. Johnson lied to the Queen and illegally shut down parliament a few months ago. That's proper dictatorship stuff.
The Tories are no longer conservative. Even their previous leader and PM John Major has acknowledged that. We're living in dangerous times, so it's good to talk.
Enough politics for me though
off to make some Coronavirus inspired music instead 
There's absolutely something to be said about there being a time & a place for everything. This is a music forum, thank you drive forward.
But I can't help but notice the microcosmic example here of the sweeping aversion & apathy towards politics that manifests itself with almost half of the eligible voter's in America staying home on election day.
Yes, talking about our world & politics can be an extremely difficult slog for all involved, but things that are important & worth doing are generally difficult to begin with.
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
H. L. Mencken
Well, they have just banned any gathering of more than 1,000 people in my country. For example, the Geneva International Motorshow has been cancelled. This is a loss of more than 200 millions $. I don't think the government is doing this just to frighten us...