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Ya. People don’t realize how much work went into dodging that bullet.
Linking to that shit gives it oxygen.
@richardyot : I always wonder if the actual qanon originators believe the stuff they post. I suspect not. It seems like they may be people that “hate the libs, etc.” and that know some people are gullible. So, they make stuff up to manipulate these people and power-trip on both the gullibility of the people that believe it and that people are reacting against it.
That a world leader retweets this stuff is mind-boggling.
Of course the originators might simply be trolling for lolz, in fact that's very likely. But the believers are deadly serious, and there are a surprising number of them in the US. It's a hair away from fascism, and there is a willing following.
I am not even sure it is a hair away. In many ways, I find the 8chan-bred crypto-fascists even scarier.
I don’t doubt how serious this is .... 650,000 a year is pretty serious to me so my point again is why all the fuss now ? It’s mountain out of mole hill at present because we have no solid facts yet and will only have them once this is over ..... Thing is , when will it end ? Will it ever end ? We get Flu every year , and it kills on a massive scale every year so why is this year so different ? Reading stats from SARS would have you believe this will not be so bad ..... All experts say that %WILL in all likelihood fall once final numbers are in ....
So again my question is why panic now ? Because that’s what this has been portrayed as , a global panic, yet .... A gentleman touring in a camper in France was on Tv this morning stating everyone he had encountered so far was relaxed and just getting on with it . Still shaking hands and hugging each other !? Yet later in same segment it’s announced that the french President is saying situation is dire n people are panicking ?!
I try to keep a very open mind and question everything ..... why should I take the word of someone expert or not in today’s climate of lies and manipulation ? Can we agree , Everyone has an agenda ? , some greater than others ? And that greed is running the planet ?
If we can then why is it such a big step to consider there are people in positions of trust and power willing to lie and manipulate ?
Am I so stupid / gullible or paranoid to think it’s possible and very easy for us to be manipulated on a massive scale ?
It matters not what the reason for the manipulation is ....
I try to look at big pictures and find patterns ....
History is great for that ......
Wonder who will be making money from this ?
Wonder if it will generate more cash than good old fashioned war ?
Company’s going bust , being bought ... share prices plummeting in areas that could be easily predicted prior to an outbreak 🤔
I try to not jump to conclusions whilst exploring as many angles as possible.... This often has people label me as conspiracy theorist, like it’s a bad thing 😁. If stimulating debate and wanting to see or work things out myself by thinking outside of the box gets me this label , then so be it 👍 I’d rather be considered a little bit nutty than sit back and just accept what makes no sense to me ......
like why this years outbreak is any different to any previous year where different strains of flu have been killing hundreds of thousands of people.....
Scored TP, Paper Towels and Kleenex at Walmart this morning 7am sharp. Stocks were at XMas Eve levels. Had to fight off a horde of six people to get in the store. One of them offered me candy.
yeah, it was disappointing to see him lose his nerve. maybe ‘Glycon’ told him to do it 😳
@silverk: You raise more points than it is possible to address. But let us start with the point you keep raising which is "A lot of people die from the flu, why make a fuss about the coronavirus?"
This is really the key issue. You can look up the facts in any number of places that aren't "the media" (whatever that means).
The flu does not kill massive numbers of people in industrialized nations. That large number you give is deceptive because it is out of context -- and it is hard for us to process big numbers out of context.
So, let's analyze.
While, the raw numbers seem large. when you look at the numbers as a percentage of the population, the lethality is small. In countries with wide-spread vaccination, the lethality rate is on the order of 0.05 - 0.1%. That means that of 2000 infected people only 1 to 2 people die.
In countries that did nothing to avert this epidemic early, the lethality has been on the order of 3% or more of identified cases. What does that mean? It means that if 2000 people were symptomatic, 60 would die.
Do you see the difference?
Why haven't we seen hundreds of thousands die?
1) Countries are taking extreme measures. The countries (like Japan) that took measures very early, seem to have stopped the virus dead. This doesn't mean the virus wasn't a threat: it means they acted very quickly and prevented an epidemic. It didn't turn into a catastrophe because they did something.
2) So far, in the U.S. we are early enough in the epidemic that our hospital system is not yet overwhelmed. Our hospital system has very limited "extra" capacity. It is designed to be monetarily efficient -- which means hospitals run at close to full occupancy in normal years. The lethality of the virus is largely related to the ability of hospitals to provide respirators and intensive care for the people that develop lung infections. So far, we have not exceeded the capacity to do that. The skyrocketing death tool in Italy happened because they hit that limit. They had to decide which people got respirators and which didn't. Those that didn't died. In the SF Bay Area, a number of hospitals happen to have access to limited supplies of an experimental drug that seems to be helping. But we won't know for a couple of weeks how widely the epidemic has spread. If we acted early enough, there will be few enough cases that the hospitals will be able to keep up and the death rate will be low.
The only reason things aren't worse are extreme measures that places are taking. These measures aren't being taken as the result of media manipulation.
Anyway, read the articles I posted. Even if you don't trust the media, the authors share the math and methodology. You can then do the math yourself and see if it checks out.
If it doesn't check out come back and tell us why.
If "the media" says 2+2=4, you can check it out. If you find an error, you can call it out.
I'd like to address one other point. You wrote: "Am I so stupid / gullible or paranoid to think it’s possible and very easy for us to be manipulated on a massive scale ? "
What are your bona fides for thinking that your analysis is more rigorous than other people's? What gives you confidence that you are less gullible than the people that you see as gullible?
Do you have expertise in some field where you have risen above your peers?
In your life, has it turned out that your analytical skills were superior to those around you and that your insights have been acknowledged by those with expertise?
All of us need to consider the possibility that we are the gullible and incorrect ones. In fact, that is what scientists and mathematicians do when they work out their theories -- they try to knock them down -- they rigorously doubt themselves and try to disprove their conclusions. And then they invite their peers to find the flaws.
The good ideas are the ones that survive being contested. And contesting involves pointing to a flaw in the logic or math.
Your credibility here is lost. Too many iterations and no change in your clueless advice.
Not panic. Planning and execution based upon the early indications from the other countries.
Everything being done my the healthcare and location governments is aimed at minimizing panic.
Doing nothing is not a plan and it's just skepticism without curiosity. The information available is
beyond doubt.
Your credibility here is lost. Too many iterations and no change in your clueless advice.
Show some intelligence or it's time for the "ignore" option. It's not worth the effort to help you.
Too many people to help understand the situation... I have neighbors and relatives that are still going to Mass and eating in the less crowded restautants following the advice from their "news" sources.
Most of these news sources would probably use you for interviews about "panic" and why it's bad for business. Such an easy attitude to sell... "Clam down, carry on. Nothing to see here."
Walking pneumonia is still a mild case... you don't need oxygen YET.
We're just not used to watching a loved one slowly dying and learning they cannot be admitted to the hospital because the wait's too long right now.
In one ear and out your ass, IMHO. Carry on.
Don't get me started on the eye rolling over that. Yeah a few nutcases went overboard, but it was real and a huge amount of work and planning went into fixing systems, which was successful. I don't know anyone who worked on that stuff (including plenty of people who would have preferred to have done something else, myself included) who thought it was a waste of time.
@SilverK : I am genuinely curious to understand where you get trusted information from as it sounds like you doubt everything. Would you mind citing your trusted sources of information?
Here’s a YouTube channel for the group @rackersr was associated with if you’re curious:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsTzmojEh6B205Iz8XadBLQ
I saw the live stream last night and they clearly have developed an extensive explanation which is very different from anything I’ve been exposed to or read about. There do seem to be a lot of theories which most people would classify as conspiracy theories all woven together and combined with ongoing current events which can be verified with those which I can’t find evidence for.
I think someone would have to feel very strongly about one of the theories that’s part of their belief system and have very little confidence whatsoever in government, business, mainstream media, or other cultural institutions to be drawn into such a group.
The fact that such groups do exist is to me, like the canary in the coal mine with respect to how much distrust and lack of control many feel they have in their lives. This can lead to feelings of alienation and powerlessness so when you find others who share your beliefs and concerns about what’s going on and have some plan to address it, it can be appealing.
Even a rejection of your beliefs by the larger culture can serve to strengthen your allegiance and confidence in the group. The persecution many church members face for their belief system can be an example of this although it’s certainly not limited to church groups.
While I think it’s easy to dismiss the ideas and thoughts of people which are very different from your own and to think many of their ideas are dangerous and irrational, it’s usually the case these people truly believe what they’re doing is positive. People who do not trust the society they live in to take care of them can be vulnerable to manipulation by others whether it’s groups with alternative beliefs opposed to the mainstream, politicians, advertisers, or con artists.
If we‘re really concerned about the growth and influence of these sorts of groups, we should probably come from a place of trying to address and change the conditions which fostered them. This can’t be accomplished without some insight into how and why people are motivated to form and join them. We could use this as an opportunity to also examine what we as individuals are doing to make positive contributions in our communities, countries, and the world. In the short run it’s easier to support and care for those like us and to put down and dismiss those who aren’t— in the long run it’s not.
I have a friend that worked on it for a year or more at one of the big banks. She said that they were all holding their breaths for the first month of 2000 and again at the beginning of 2001. Because they could only test simulations of their fixes -- the actual systems are so complicated with reliance on so many other systems that they had to hope that their testing off-line systems was truly representative.
This virus kills more people, demands more healthcare resources and spreads more quickly. And I call bullshit on 'All Experts'. The stats at this point have been pretty consistent. Around 1% if under control, significantly higher if it gets out of control (which you'd expect - there are only so many doctors/ventilators).
What you see as panic, is people taking reasonable measures to try and stop this thing before it gets out of control. One reason to panic is dickheads hugging each other and shaking hands.
Sure everyone has an agenda. For most of the scientists I know there agenda is being good scientists, and providing good data/analysis. Most scientists could make a lot more money doing something else.
The big cartel of epidemiologists and critical care doctors, just waiting for the right moment to take over the world and impose one world government you mean.
I mean you are being manipulated, just not in the way you think...
There's about to be a big recession which will cost a lot of people a lot of money. Among them airlines, shipping companies, landlords, electronics companies, car companies, restaurant chains and people who own bonds. On balance most people who have money will not do well in this. But sure, spin your conspiracy.
Wars are terrible for business. This is a myth based upon a misunderstanding about the US economy in WWII. Yes if you're economy is recovering from a massive depression war can be a useful stimulus. Otherwise it's just a good way to trash your economy. Most countries have left wars poorer than they entered them - history is filled with wealthy families who were destroyed by wars.
I dunno - because more people will die? I mean, WTF.
My bank had some small failures, but they were localized. One of the big fears were network effects, or cascading failures. A lot of work went into preventing that.
@InfoCheck : do you feel that the ideas in that video deserve serious consideration?
I may be misinterpreting your words, but it sounds as if you might think that the world is being unfairly dismissive of the ideas and world-view being espoused in that video?
No, you're totally right about that. What I mean is, linking from respected sites give it more presence in Google rankings. You can mention it, just don't do them a favor of actually providing a working link.
Good point!
I'm just going to leave this here for you.
Welp, I’m officially on personal leave from my job because I’m a high risk for the spreading chaos. Will be working on upcoming albums and my YouTube channel.
Good luck to everyone out there
The world is a big place and I don’t speak for the world.
Lots of “experts“ here who seem how to run the country. Same as in every Starbucks or every deli counter where there’s some unemployed guy holding the poor sandwich maker hostage behind the counter being forced to listen to his “solutions” to run the world better. People with real answers for which there in fact aren’t any don’t tend to post on social media.
Seems like an explosion of “virologists” lately without degrees. Just sayin’....
As for me I’m hedging bets as to what will be available first.. Coronovirus vaccine or ......Drambo.....
I’ve been told to work from home from now one. Good luck everyone.
Weird situation for me, since I've been working from home for the last 16 years, and the nearest city is an hours drive away. Lunchtimes I'll have a walk up the village lanes, and might pass one or two people, so Monday to Friday usually the only other humans I properly see are the Mrs and the boy. Weekends we'll probably go off somewhere, or meet up with friends, but some weekends we just stay in (storms), or go for country walks.
So as long as I avoid the news, and this thread, I can almost pretend it's not hapening. Though obviously in a few weeks time that probably won't be the case, and they'll be screaming zombies coming up the drive.
Weirdest thing is the sudden influx of work. Including someone calling today about developing an app for them...just leave me alone ffs, I want to make some more silly noises before I pop my boots.
Yup. Even though I live in town I'm largely an introverted bastard, we both run the company from home, and the dog isn't on Twitter. It's the seventeen year old who causes the exposure and danger in our lives. Thinking of making him sleep in the car. Also saw this one and thought of you
@Telstar5, I can see your point, but also think there are some pretty educated people here with clear thinking and, perhaps, modestly non disclosed credentials ( I am not one of them. I just specialize in emotional moralism). It is up to us as readers to judge their remarks and if they make sense to us.
I once read a quote that business leaders make the right decisions 50% of the time. That is anecdotal perhaps, but points to fallibility everywhere, including the “ experts”. Why would I not want to consider what folks here, who have proved their credibility and insight time and again, have to say.
Shunryu Suzuki said “ To the beginner the possibilities are many. To the expert the possibilities are few”. I think it is good to hear from both,
As usual, this thread is dominated by a few posters... no complaints with that at all. But I do implore those who do not regularly post to join in. Especially with stories of their own experience with the virus. It would feel very reassuring to hear from you and would strengthen the sense of community.
This forum is comforting in that we have a common interest in something that is both niche and cutting edge. People who engage in this endeavor are well, maybe... a little different. Generally I find something to like with almost everyone who speaks up here. Even those I disagree with.
I just sense there are so many more people out there who it would be great to know, and that, together, we can keep a bright candle of hope and positivism alight as well as share the more fearsome aspects of this global event. So, please, don’t be shy. Tell us what is going on with you.
One thing about this disaster is that many people who do not often shine out step up and deliver so much to many others. Namaste, gang.
This is one of the few things written on this thread that actually makes much sense imo.