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@VirSyn I love AddStation but I'm finding it's not working properly in ZenBeats. Confirmed on two different iPads. @MatthewAtZenbeats, it passes the plug-in scan but everything sounds massively distorted no matter how I set plug-in compatibility. AddStation works fine in AUM but then again all my other synths seem to work fine in ZenBeats so not exactly sure where the problem lies. Can anyone else with both ZenBeats and AddStation confirm please?
I don't have ZenBeats installed but have you restarted your iPad since installing AddStation?
Thanks for the suggestion. Just tried that but doesn't seem to have helped unfortunately. Increasing the buffer size in the settings seems to reduce the distortion but even at the highest buffer size it's still unusably distorted
I've been curious about this but holding back. Finger painting partials is a bit hit and miss, not to say tedious, though I'm sure some interesting results can be discovered, still I'd like some more options here. Some combination of spectral analysis/resynthesis and additive maybe.
I see there's a filter section applying depth per partial and I'm a bit confused. Dealing with sinewaves, isn't filtering essentially equivalent to basic amplitude control, is it something to do with phase management? Have I got any idea what I'm on about?
The envelope and LFO options seem really basic. I'm not craving some massive modulation matrix, I like the way EG and LFO are hardwired to respective parameters here, but given the wild morphing possibilities in the timbre department, it just feels a bit weak. As does the arp thing, does the job I'm sure but would look more at home on some retro 80's emulation.
I'm not being mean for the sake of it, I am genuinely intrigued and I love what I've heard so far. I love the sounds you can get from PPG Infinite too and I wonder whether there's enough cross over to sit this one out. That and I'm a bit skint.
I'm really intrigued here. What do you think the lfo and eg sections could be like to make it better?
Finger painting partials is anything but tedious, it is quick and simple (unless I suppose you are trying to get something VERY specific). And the filter section does not apply it per partial, you paint the filter shape you want and that is applied to the whole waveform coming out of the additive section. If that is just static, you could mimic that by adjusting the partials, but of course you can animate the filter cutoff using the envelope and lfo settings. And you can morph between different partials and filter shapes using the blocks. So the whole thing is very flexible, and yet quite easy to navigate given the huge number of parameters it is managing.
AND each partial has an attack and decay associated with it, so you can have movement in the sound even before it hits the filter section. So for example you can have faster decay for higher harmonics as happens with a plucked string, or slower attack for higher harmonics as happens in some wind instruments.
Great comment Phil. So do you think it should have presets for individual blocks or do you think that is not necessary?
C'mon guys just trying to talk myself out of it 🤣
OK so envelopes, having control over the rate of transition within each stage, ie curves, the possibility of random break points, looping sections that work like LFOs. Maybe the added complexity wouldn't be worth the rewards. Sometimes it's not. LFO's, basic waves dropdown menu, OK. This thing is morph heaven, until we hit the LFO's, then it's back to the pioneer days. Nothing wrong with basic waves, based on analog oscillators, because that's what there was, but I'm saying given the general vibe here is you can do crazy stuff in the digital realm it just seems, I don't know, a bit limited.
OK the partials editor. I'm not interested in trying to synthesize particular sounds, nothing wrong with trial and error, but maybe interesting and meaningful spectra don't simply happen at random and I'd want to explore that. I appreciate the envelopes per partial this is important. Otherwise it's just a glorified Hammond.
I think it would be useful as it would make it quicker to build up sounds. Obsidian (NS2) has presets for all the components of the synth and it's an amazing little feature.
The only real test is how it sounds and it sounds fantastic. The variety of sounds is really impressive and it can sound very analogue if you want it to. i've found it very intuitive and have created my own sounds by copying and pasting blocks from other presets and then tweaking partials and filters etc which is a work-around for not having 'template' presets for the individual blocks. It would be much better to have Harmonic Presets like in Additive Pro though and it also needs to work in ZenBeats or I won't be able to actually use it in any of my tracks:-)
I doubt we’ll ever get resynthesis but including some spectra templates would go a long way. Some of the basic wave shapes are already there in Addictive so its implementation shouldn’t be too difficult.
One thing you’ll appreciate is the numeric feedback you get when adjusting the harmonics and filter shape - this is somewhat of a guessing game in Addictive. That said, Addictive does give you more wriggle room when adjusting the first half dozen partials, so it’s easier to dial in a spectrum without inadvertently adjusting a neighbouring partial. The first half dozen partials has the greatest effect on the overall timbre so i’m hoping we’ll get similar implementation here.
I didn’t think I needed AddStation as I own both Addictive Pro and the hardware equivalent, but I’m really liking what Virsyn has accomplished and I’m sure the app will improve over time. If there was a way of automating the centre point (bias) of the formant filter things would get really interesting.
Replying to my own post. Must say something fundamental I'm sure. Anyway I really want to use AddStation in ZenBeats so I did some'trial and error' testing. AddStation works fine in both Cubasis 3 and AUM so I figured it ust be a ZenBeats isue. Having experimented with all the settings, I found that disabling Auto Resampling in the Plugins/Settings menu fixes the issue and AddStation now works fine. Further investigation showed exactly the same behaviour is reproducible with Addictive Pro so it may well be an issue with all @VirSyn plug-ins but at least there's an easy fix. @MatthewAtZenbeats - why does ZenBeats Auto Resample plugins by default when AUM and Cubasis 3 don't. Just curious but the main thing is it works - thought I'd post in case anyone else has the same issue
I've heard that one reason for that is to be able to run the session at different sample-rate than the hardware.
Since iOS devices are a mixture of devices with 44.1 and 48 (which in some cases can not be changed).
Some plug-ins do not respect the session sample-rate set by the host but use the hardware sample-rate, some plug-ins are optimized for 44.1 and will sound out-of tune at 48k so the 'resampling' option is there so devices with both 44.1k and 48k sample-rate play the same.
AUv3 plug-ins should respect the sample rate set by the host but too many use 'hardware sample rate' which makes things wonky.
So yeah, it's a 'sample rate mess' caused by Apple and iOS/iPadOS that forced the re-sample option to keep plug-ins optimized for 44.1 playing properly on devices with 48k hardware sample-rate.
Just in case you bump into a plug-in that is 'out of tune' in ZenBeats it's most likely due to re-sampling being turned off...
Makes perfect sense thanks @Samu. I'll now be able to blame any out of tune vocals on Apple too which is an added bonus😉
Hi there. We defaulted to Having Force 44.1 enabled as (at the time) it yielded the most compatible outcome for external plugins. As developers update their app to support multiple sample rates, this will no longer be needed. Personally, I turn it off and when I come across a plugin that doesn't work well at 48k, I report it to the developer.
Hmm see what you mean @Samu! Just played the same notes on AddStation and then on the built-in ElectroGuitar and AddStation sounds like it's about a semitone flat compared with former. So it's still pretty much unusable unless there's fix/workaround you're aware of?
This is something I guess @MatthewAtZenbeats should be able to answer.
In Cubasis 3 there's always the 'real time render' option. Don't know if ZenBeats has that kind of option yet?
One option is to use an external audio-interface that allows you to set the sample-rate and this in turn will make Addstation 'switch' to 44.1 and thus play back in tune with the rest of the app.
Hi @MatthewAtZenbeats, thanks for responding. Well I did turn it off and it 'works' but as per my post below and as @Samu predicted it now sounds out of tune! Any idea how I resolve that? Just to assist in diagnosis ('cos ZenBeats is my DAW of choice) AddStation sounds in tune in Cubasis 3 when compared with the built-in Microsonic instruments but out of tune in ZenBeats compared ElectroGuitar etc
I would contact the developer of that plugin and ask them to properly support 48k. In the meantime try this. Uncheck Force 44.1 in Settings, then load the plugin. In the main plugin menu, you should see some Plugin Compatibility options to force the plugin instance to 44.1k. Let me know if that helps.
And yes there is a real time render option for both stere and stem mixdowns if needed.
LOVELY synth - great fun standalone but doesn't mingle well.
I've reached the point where I've returned to the Mac do do anything serious leaving the ipads for idle doodles and fooling about. Too unreliable and fault-filled. Anything beyond a couple of apps and effects and I'm getting crackling, spikes, random surges and distortion.
Done all the sensible things - stripped out all the sample based apps I don't use - got the 256gb capacity down to under 40gb in use for storage, fiddled with my buffers, even downgraded the graphics rate ... no difference.
I fear that Apple is throttling its products. Again. I won't be buying any more ipad apps till the situation improves... if it ever does. Serious screen-based synth builders need a new platform somehow ... the days of ipads are over... at least for me.
Hi @MatthewAtZenbeat, I've emailed the @VirSyn developer as suggested with my attempted explanation and a link to this thread. I tried your suggestion above but as soon as I set Plugin Compatibility to 44.1k it goes back to being incredibly distorted. I've also noticed though that with Auto Resampling turned off in the Plugins/Settings, EVERY synth I add (Zeon, Bassalicious 2, SynthMaster One) sounds one semitone sharp (not flat as I said yesterday!) in comparison with the ZenBeats built-in instruments. Fortunately these other synths still work, and play in tune once Auto Resampling is turn back on.
What I still don't understand though, is why AddStation works fine (and in tune) in Cubasis 3, despite the latter not having all those Plugin Compatibility options. Similarly in AUM I can ONLY set my Sample rate to 48k and AddStation works and plays in tune so I'm not clear that the issue is AddStation not supporting 48K but maybe that's me not fully understanding it properly?
Also Cubas> @charalew said:
What does AutoResampling actually do if a synth is already running at 48K?
If a synth is already working at 48k, nothing. If a synth reports to Zenneats that it only supports 44.1, we resample it so it is in tune. Some synths support this, some don't, but it is better to try to make it work if we can.
Some host will force samplerates to 44.1 without telling the user. I don't believe Cuabse does this as I have some AUv3 instruments that play out of tune at 48kbut it is hard to say. It does seem that each developer handles it differently. We certainly have more work to do here.
>
Agree, most 'hosts' on iOS just adapt to using hardware sample-rate which is not always desirable.
For example my old iPad Air 2 defaults to 44.1K (it is capable of 48K as well) but on the iPhone 8 the only option is 48K.
So If I'm not careful in selecting the sample rate of the session on one of the devices I'm screwed and get mixed 44.1K and 48K recordings. Thankfully the iPad Air 2 can run at both 44.1 and 48K so It's not that bad.
Newer devices seem to be locked to 48K for internal sound, and even here Apple screwed up as video is recorded with 44.1K audio for some strange reason even though 48K is standard for video, some kind of malfunctioning 'Apple Logic' at play here or something?!
Honestly I would prefer if the DAW selects the session sample-rate independently from the connected or used hardware and all plug-ins would check what sample rate the DAW session is running at and adapt instead of by default looking at the hardware sample-rate.
Since the AUv3 specs have less than stellar documentation some developers have like just assumed that 44.1k will do and let CoreAudio handle the rest which is what is causing this malfunctioning out of tune plug-in mess that we have
Cheers!
Makes sense! If it helps at all @MatthewAtZenbeats , both my two devices are both quite recent an iPad Mini 5 (for work) and an iPad Pro 2020 and both appear to be 'locked' at 48k (i.e. I cannot select 44.1k in either Cubasis or AUM). So my hardware isn't even capably of 44,1k!
We could reproduce this here and are trying to figure out the reason. There are different ways how the host tells the plugin about the samplerate. AddStation reacts to samplerate changes of some hosts ( AUM, Cubasis ) directly, on some (e.g. Beatmaker ) only after restarting the Host. Maybe @MatthewAtZenbeats could let me know what method is called by Zenbeats in order to fix this issue.
@VirSyn thanks for looking at this. It certainly gives me some hope that this will get fixed! So if I understand what you're saying correctly, AddStation is capabable in principle of both 44.1k and 48k playback? What I'm not clear about from @MatthewAtZenbeats reply earlier is that if AddStatio supports 48k (and presumably it must because otherwise it wouldn't work in standalone mode on my hardware because 44.1k is not supported!) and if Auto Resampling "does nothing" if a synth supports 48k, then why does turning on Auto Resampling in ZenBeats lead to the distortion? Is ZenBeats somehow mistakenly identifying AddStation and other Virsyn synths as only supporting 44.1k even though this isn't actually the case?
@Virysn I'm finding that I still get stuck notes quite a lot with this app, changing patches seems to unstick it.