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Comments
Mocking the developer isn't going to help anything.
@rezidue said:
I think what people might not be understanding: AudioKit's goal is to create a pro-quality audio programming framework in Swift -- and Swift was apparently not designed with realtime audio performance in mind. So, there are performance issues that arise because of how Swift works.
My semi-educated guess is that some of the issues they are dealing with are bugs and performance problems in Swift that require Apple's attention to fully address. So, they probably have to spend some time working around quirks of Swift that don't exist in Apple's non-Swift frameworks and some time lobbying Apple to fix things in Swift.
Sometimes they might think that they will be able to find workarounds than is possible.
And all of the people working on it have other "real" jobs. When they get this all sussed out (and I hope they do), it will make it a lot easier for people to write audio apps and plugins.
If it’s something overlooked, it shouldn’t take long to fix... if it’s a challenge now to make instrument to respond to incoming midi then it could be just another empty promise like D1
That sounds about right Ed, though you have explained it much more clearly than Matt explained it to me. Apple have very high level people who check in on this project every week - the head of music is one - and this sounds like a feasible explanation of why they care so much. It is still unfortunate that it was released with such a major flaw, I just hope it all comes together sooner rather than later.
This is correct. In fact, you can't do audio processing directly in Swift at all. Audio processing has to happen in real-time safe context, which Swift is not. You have to use bridging classes to interact with the actual Audio Unit, and you have to do so in a very careful way, or glitches or timing issues will happen. It's not simple stuff. The AudioKit framework tries to make it easier, but that's a tall order.
One such note from the Apple audio unit example code:
Sounds passable... Also raises a red flag
The fantastic and wonderful thing about the FREE AudioKit team library is they're enabling a whole population of developers who don't necessarily have the deep C and DSP coding skills needed to develop apps. The downside is that population is also liable to make mistakes and to have a tougher time fixing them than veterans with decades of experience, such as Bram Bos, would have.
People complaining about these apps may feel better if they realize that despite the issues, they'd never have these apps without AudioKit's amazing FREE contributions. Somewhat broken D1 vs. no D1? Fantastic sounding 909 with some timing issues for $2.99 vs. not? I know my choice.
I hate to see people mocking these new developers. As if not being able to make a living developing iOS apps wasn't enough, taking abuse after probably thousands of hours of effort has got to be enough to make more than one person who might make many great apps for us in the future decide it's just not worth the grief.
Just a quick further note that I think some folks understand and some don't. The Audiokit guys have a lot of heavy lifting to do -- and it is quite a feat to get the traction that they have finally started to get at Apple.
I totally get peoples' frustration with the apps. At the same time -- I think it is worth appreciating that these folks have stuck with this for years and succeeded to get Apple to pay attention to something that would otherwise get no traction at all. I suspect that they will eventually succeed and we will all benefit from apps other folks write.
And I am willing to bet that their efforts are also benefitting non-Swift apps and plugins merely by virtue of the fact that some folks at Apple are having regular contact with music software programmers they wouldn't otherwise have.
One of the problems of Apple having gone from essentially a massively popular boutique company whose customers were disproportionately weighted towards "creatives" to a company whose products are used by the mass market (where "creatives" are a smaller piece of the pie because we are a niche) is that we don't have the traction that we used to have.
I appreciate that the AK folks are getting some regular time with people that impact the support for audio programming.
I would be devastated if after all those lines and troubles I would have to read someone like me...
That’s why I’m keeping my half baked sh!t for myself.
If the framework works most of the time for the most part, it will only attract devs who want quick money...
Yeah - they'll be buying yachts and Teslas and multiple beachfront properties with all that quick money....
If you're not joking, then you're way dumber than I thought.
I wasn’t, so it must be that
There’s dev challenges with timing when dealing w sequencer within a sequencer
I had similar problems with the sequencer in touchscaper. This has nothing (or I suspect, has nothing) to do with the realtime audio rendering "rules".
I don't use the AK framework, just for the record, so these are my own observations with my own code, and touchscaper isn't AUv3. Not yet, anyway.
Triplets were running out of sync until recent update with other sync related issues...
StepBud is midi only, so (kind of) different challenges. Well ... not really ... but less complicated.
909's audio timing problems and sequencer timing problems are two different, though perhaps related, issues. You could play a sound even in the standalone, without the sequencer at all, and the audio would still lag by a significant amount. It's getting better.
@CapnWillie Now that was funny!
While I agree that AudioKit doesn’t do themselves or their cause any favors when they release buggy apps, I do think it’s important to base your expectations of their apps on the understanding that their main goal is to develop code which will enable less skilled developers to create viable apps. If they are indeed raising the bar for Apple with respect to how well Swift functions for real time audio apps, then I think that’s a good thing. Does this mean they should get a free pass when their apps are released with significant flaws? I don’t think so.
Perhaps the users who want to support AudioKit’s mission could help them develop better beta testing protocols so they don’t release apps before they’re fully baked?
If you’re not wanting to be the guinea pig for their new apps, it’d be wise to wait until the bugs are worked out. It seems that creating professional level apps should include adequate testing as part of the process so they can build their reputation rather than discourage people from buying them by having significant bugs upon release.
Coffee down the nose! If you’d added commie to that sentence I’m sure I would’ve bust my stitches. 😂
Bruhhhhhh!!! Should have added a warning, don’t read while drinking coffee. YOU OWE ME A SHIRT!!!!! Driving south to come pick it up.
Another update today. And just playing along quickly in AUM the sequencer seems to be in sync!
Yeh, in general it's "good enough" for me at this point. It should be perfect, and hopefully will be, but I can definitely get along with it now.
Really? I’m still getting the same 25ms lag. In fairness, the update notes said that timing was going to be tackled with the next update.
It was much worse at initial release. Also, manually setting the buffers to match the host helps. I can live with the 25ms lag for casual jamming.
That Crusher section
...
Not fond of the crusher, but I love the "Heat" knob on the kick.
+1 +1
Thanks Audiokit! I owned a 909 in the 80’s. It’s the one piece of equipment I regret selling, if only for the bragging rights of owning a $3000 drum machine. I’m enjoying making beats with the app. Gives me all the feels of the original.
I can't find a way to have arbitrary pattern length, only 16 or 32. Am i missing something or is it a feature not yet implemented (hopefully not something Audiokit doens't plan on implementing - its pretty useless to me unless it supports it)
The pattern length is fixed. I don't know if they plan to change that or not.
Useless though? You can always sequence it with something else. Pads start at midi note 36 (C1 or C2 depending on the sequencer) and go up chromatically starting from the Kick.