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Audiokit released their 909 app

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Comments

  • wimwim
    edited November 2020

    @oceansinspace said:
    Oh my, please timing is fixed? I realize this drum synth is sick but those issues kill the flow and I actually thought link supported and worked fine? Thats another crucial one! No bad vibes just wondering what would cause these timing problems on a drum machine. Thanks yawl at audio kit.

    Link is is irrelevant unless you're using it standalone. As an AU, the host takes care of Link and provides the sync to its plugins.

  • edited November 2020

    @SpartanClownTide said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @SpartanClownTide said:
    Update, 12ms. Not great, not terrible. At least things are moving in the right direction. There's been some good work done on this overall, hopefully the timing gets a proper fix but it's progress.

    Really? I’m still getting the 25ms. In fairness, the update didn’t say that the timing had been improved.

    Yeah I only just got the update but it seems to have rolled out a while ago so maybe there's a delay there, which is kind of poetic I suppose.
    Checked my measurements, I'm standing by them, 12ms. Yeah I hope they don't close the case on that, seems it's not straightforward given that it's taken to now. Maybe they don't want to make promises.

    Lol, after some delay the update arrived here as well. Sadly, the timing delay is unchanged. Tested in AUM both with the internal sequencer and triggered by Rozeta xox. Buffer at 64. Ruismaker by comparison shows no delay at all so I don’t think it’s setup. I’m on an Air 2 running 13.7 so perhaps that explains the discrepancy?

    Edit: lag is sill around 25ms.

  • @oceansinspace said:
    Oh my, please timing is fixed? I realize this drum synth is sick but those issues kill the flow and I actually thought link supported and worked fine? Thats another crucial one! No bad vibes just wondering what would cause these timing problems on a drum machine. Thanks yawl at audio kit.

    Doesn’t look like it.

  • @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @SpartanClownTide said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @SpartanClownTide said:
    Update, 12ms. Not great, not terrible. At least things are moving in the right direction. There's been some good work done on this overall, hopefully the timing gets a proper fix but it's progress.

    Really? I’m still getting the 25ms. In fairness, the update didn’t say that the timing had been improved.

    Yeah I only just got the update but it seems to have rolled out a while ago so maybe there's a delay there, which is kind of poetic I suppose.
    Checked my measurements, I'm standing by them, 12ms. Yeah I hope they don't close the case on that, seems it's not straightforward given that it's taken to now. Maybe they don't want to make promises.

    Lol, after some delay the update arrived here as well. Sadly, the timing delay is unchanged. Tested in AUM both with the internal sequencer and triggered by Rozeta xox. Buffer at 64. Ruismaker by comparison shows no delay at all so I don’t think it’s setup. I’m on an Air 2 running 13.7 so perhaps that explains the discrepancy?

    Edit: lag is sill around 25ms.

    That's odd then, maybe someone can check though it's a bit academic really, Timing's tight or it's not.

  • @SpartanClownTide said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @SpartanClownTide said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @SpartanClownTide said:
    Update, 12ms. Not great, not terrible. At least things are moving in the right direction. There's been some good work done on this overall, hopefully the timing gets a proper fix but it's progress.

    Really? I’m still getting the 25ms. In fairness, the update didn’t say that the timing had been improved.

    Yeah I only just got the update but it seems to have rolled out a while ago so maybe there's a delay there, which is kind of poetic I suppose.
    Checked my measurements, I'm standing by them, 12ms. Yeah I hope they don't close the case on that, seems it's not straightforward given that it's taken to now. Maybe they don't want to make promises.

    Lol, after some delay the update arrived here as well. Sadly, the timing delay is unchanged. Tested in AUM both with the internal sequencer and triggered by Rozeta xox. Buffer at 64. Ruismaker by comparison shows no delay at all so I don’t think it’s setup. I’m on an Air 2 running 13.7 so perhaps that explains the discrepancy?

    Edit: lag is sill around 25ms.

    That's odd then, maybe someone can check though it's a bit academic really, Timing's tight or it's not.

    iPad Pro 2018 12.9 on latest everything. Timing still sucks when used as a plug-in within Cubase. Have to move all tracks to compensate, and it still doesn’t feel quite right.

  • ❤️ AR-909!!

  • @royor said:
    ❤️ AR-909!!

    It’s the best drum delay in the AppStore. Soon to be the most expensive.

  • @jolico said:

    @royor said:
    ❤️ AR-909!!

    It’s the best drum delay in the AppStore. Soon to be the most expensive.

    I am sooo stealing that.

  • @jolico Zero delay when I’m jamming with my guitar or bass + recording audio direct to my Zoom H6.. kind of like I used to do with my old 4 track cassette recorder.. the 909 is my easy to tweak, easy to program drummer.. 🥁 of course, YMMV..

  • Still not in time.

    Tested on iPhone 11.

  • @brambos (best example Ruismaker au) what are audiokit doing wrong with their timing code?
    Please help them nail it. Much appreciated. 😁

  • My gut says the timing is an engine issue. Unlikely to be fixed any time<~heh soon.

  • If I export to an audio file and trim the gap at the front most of the rest is then early except any kicks. It’s just weird and it’s too bad because the sound is AWESOME!

  • I watched a few of the YouTube videos on the AR-909 as AudioKit always get good coverage online. Not one of them mentioned the timing issue! So weird.

  • @gusgranite said:
    I watched a few of the YouTube videos on the AR-909 as AudioKit always get good coverage online. Not one of them mentioned the timing issue! So weird.

    This is why I ended up passing on making a video on this, that's not acceptable for me in a drum machine, as much as I love the sound

  • edited November 2020

    @gusgranite said:
    I watched a few of the YouTube videos on the AR-909 as AudioKit always get good coverage online. Not one of them mentioned the timing issue! So weird.

    I guess that most people were just using it alone maybe so didn't notice the timing issues? Or were they making vids where you could hear clearly that the beats were off?

  • Since the latency seems to vary per sound it could be some internal DSP modules in use have high latency.

  • I know it's been said more than once, but bears repeating: If testing from Rozeta XOX be sure to turn off 808 timing.

  • Okay, more weirdness. Only the bass drum has a latency of 25ms in my setup, all the other sounds are around 12ms. @SpartanClownTide
    Have to say, testing gets a bit tedious so I’ll wait for another update.

  • @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Okay, more weirdness. Only the bass drum has a latency of 25ms in my setup, all the other sounds are around 12ms. @SpartanClownTide
    Have to say, testing gets a bit tedious so I’ll wait for another update.

    Weird. Is the bass drum a sample?

  • @gusgranite said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Okay, more weirdness. Only the bass drum has a latency of 25ms in my setup, all the other sounds are around 12ms. @SpartanClownTide
    Have to say, testing gets a bit tedious so I’ll wait for another update.

    Weird. Is the bass drum a sample?

    As per Matt, all sounds are synthesised. No idea really.

  • @gusgranite said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Okay, more weirdness. Only the bass drum has a latency of 25ms in my setup, all the other sounds are around 12ms. @SpartanClownTide
    Have to say, testing gets a bit tedious so I’ll wait for another update.

    Weird. Is the bass drum a sample?

    Oh. I didn't think to check each track, only had a casual play around so must of missed it. That's worse to be honest. At least internally it was together. I generally like playing everything live but putting some drum loops together and sorting out the sync in Auditor or something was a feasible strategy.

  • @Jamie_Mallender said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    I miss the days when that type of news was broke and discussed here first. Back when Devs were excited to announce and discuss their new apps, updates, challenges and excitement with the community.

    I don’t blame them (Devs) at all for avoiding this place these days.

    I’m glad you said this. Since I first became really interested in iOS Music about 5 years ago, one of the things I’ve enjoyed most about the community is just how helpful and positive everyone is. Right across the Facebook groups, Reddit, Instagram, Twitter, even YouTube there are so many upbeat people - enthused and highly motivated by IOS music making. But it’s different here. A forum is worth nothing if the people who contribute aren’t forthright and honest, but it’s possible to express yourself, be critical, negative even - without being unpleasant. Some people write as though they don’t know the developer is going to read the comment, or maybe they suspect the developer will - and offending them is the desired result. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that developers do read the comments and are feeling less and less inclined to come here. There’s no way that’s good for the community. Same with crucifying the beta testers for the AR-909 (I’m one of them,) they are people who contribute here too, people who give an awful lot to this community - people who spend a lot of time helping, sharing and progressing what we do. If you’ve noticed that those kinds of people are here less and less, this is why.

    Which devs are you speaking for?

    My take on the "don't be horrid to the devs" thing is that I don't believe that anything I say has any impact on anyone. IF it does then I think that's something they need to deal with.

    For example, I was recently charged with being horrid to Hainbach. Hainbach horrid. All I thought about that was that I was pretty sure he wouldn't give a flying fig about my opinion and they certainly wouldn't change a single iota of anything he decided to do.

    People say shit.

  • @ashh said:

    @Jamie_Mallender said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    I miss the days when that type of news was broke and discussed here first. Back when Devs were excited to announce and discuss their new apps, updates, challenges and excitement with the community.

    I don’t blame them (Devs) at all for avoiding this place these days.

    I’m glad you said this. Since I first became really interested in iOS Music about 5 years ago, one of the things I’ve enjoyed most about the community is just how helpful and positive everyone is. Right across the Facebook groups, Reddit, Instagram, Twitter, even YouTube there are so many upbeat people - enthused and highly motivated by IOS music making. But it’s different here. A forum is worth nothing if the people who contribute aren’t forthright and honest, but it’s possible to express yourself, be critical, negative even - without being unpleasant. Some people write as though they don’t know the developer is going to read the comment, or maybe they suspect the developer will - and offending them is the desired result. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that developers do read the comments and are feeling less and less inclined to come here. There’s no way that’s good for the community. Same with crucifying the beta testers for the AR-909 (I’m one of them,) they are people who contribute here too, people who give an awful lot to this community - people who spend a lot of time helping, sharing and progressing what we do. If you’ve noticed that those kinds of people are here less and less, this is why.

    Which devs are you speaking for?

    My take on the "don't be horrid to the devs" thing is that I don't believe that anything I say has any impact on anyone. IF it does then I think that's something they need to deal with.

    For example, I was recently charged with being horrid to Hainbach. Hainbach horrid. All I thought about that was that I was pretty sure he wouldn't give a flying fig about my opinion and they certainly wouldn't change a single iota of anything he decided to do.

    People say shit.

    It would not be appropriate for me to name developers who have been put off visiting this forum by attitudes such as yours. That would be dragging them into a conversation they may not wish to take part in and I think that would be out of order. But I can assure you, that the list of developers and youtubers who once thrived in this forum and now avoid it is long. It’s not just a couple of super fragile people I’m talking about either. Fortunately for me, I’m far more broad shouldered than most people. If there’s one thing the music business will do to you it’s toughen you up. You put yourself out there to entertain people and everyone has an opinion - everyone is a judge - and nowadays, with the internet - you get to read every single criticism. The more successful you are, the more people want to have a pop. That’s gonna make you get tough or get out. But developers don’t necessarily have that experience or the thick skin to deal with an attitude like yours. Like, you’re gonna say what you want and if anyone has a problem with it then it’s them that has a problem. Not correct. You are an adult and you are responsible for every word that you say/type. For me, if I even suspect that I might have possibly hurt or offended someone online I’m going well out of my way to apologise or explain my point - because I don’t know that person personally. Some people are very fragile, we don’t know.

    Always be honest but kind. It’s not hard.

  • @Jamie_Mallender said:

    @ashh said:

    @Jamie_Mallender said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    I miss the days when that type of news was broke and discussed here first. Back when Devs were excited to announce and discuss their new apps, updates, challenges and excitement with the community.

    I don’t blame them (Devs) at all for avoiding this place these days.

    I’m glad you said this. Since I first became really interested in iOS Music about 5 years ago, one of the things I’ve enjoyed most about the community is just how helpful and positive everyone is. Right across the Facebook groups, Reddit, Instagram, Twitter, even YouTube there are so many upbeat people - enthused and highly motivated by IOS music making. But it’s different here. A forum is worth nothing if the people who contribute aren’t forthright and honest, but it’s possible to express yourself, be critical, negative even - without being unpleasant. Some people write as though they don’t know the developer is going to read the comment, or maybe they suspect the developer will - and offending them is the desired result. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that developers do read the comments and are feeling less and less inclined to come here. There’s no way that’s good for the community. Same with crucifying the beta testers for the AR-909 (I’m one of them,) they are people who contribute here too, people who give an awful lot to this community - people who spend a lot of time helping, sharing and progressing what we do. If you’ve noticed that those kinds of people are here less and less, this is why.

    Which devs are you speaking for?

    My take on the "don't be horrid to the devs" thing is that I don't believe that anything I say has any impact on anyone. IF it does then I think that's something they need to deal with.

    For example, I was recently charged with being horrid to Hainbach. Hainbach horrid. All I thought about that was that I was pretty sure he wouldn't give a flying fig about my opinion and they certainly wouldn't change a single iota of anything he decided to do.

    People say shit.

    It would not be appropriate for me to name developers who have been put off visiting this forum by attitudes such as yours. That would be dragging them into a conversation they may not wish to take part in and I think that would be out of order. But I can assure you, that the list of developers and youtubers who once thrived in this forum and now avoid it is long. It’s not just a couple of super fragile people I’m talking about either. Fortunately for me, I’m far more broad shouldered than most people. If there’s one thing the music business will do to you it’s toughen you up. You put yourself out there to entertain people and everyone has an opinion - everyone is a judge - and nowadays, with the internet - you get to read every single criticism. The more successful you are, the more people want to have a pop. That’s gonna make you get tough or get out. But developers don’t necessarily have that experience or the thick skin to deal with an attitude like yours. Like, you’re gonna say what you want and if anyone has a problem with it then it’s them that has a problem. Not correct. You are an adult and you are responsible for every word that you say/type. For me, if I even suspect that I might have possibly hurt or offended someone online I’m going well out of my way to apologise or explain my point - because I don’t know that person personally. Some people are very fragile, we don’t know.

    Always be honest but kind. It’s not hard.

    Nicely put @Jamie_Mallender ...👍

  • @gusgranite said:
    I watched a few of the YouTube videos on the AR-909 as AudioKit always get good coverage online. Not one of them mentioned the timing issue! So weird.

    There are a few reasons people such as myself have made videos about this app and haven’t mentioned the slight timing lag. Firstly, when you make a YouTube video about a brand new app, often that app gets fixes and updates before you’ve even uploaded to YouTube. You have to consider that when there’s a slight flaw that the developer says there’s a fix coming for - maybe by the time your video is seen - the issue won’t even exist any more. That’s a difficult one to know how to play. Also, I was a beta tester but I didn’t run tests to check the latency like videos that have been posted here. I’m a full time muso. My value as a beta tester is that I make a lot of music so I simply did that. I’ve made a whole bunch of tunes with it. I mean, you can hear any issues in my video? There’s no timing correction in the music whatsoever. When you record a real life drummer what do you think the average latency is on every hit - even a top session player? It’s more than is present with this app. I’m not saying that makes it ok or that it shouldn’t be fixed but - it sounds incredible and it’s £3. I reckon everyone should stop pissy panting about and go make some music with it. :)

  • I hummed and hawed and finally passed on Drum Computer due to price - I know, I know, but hey, I’m trying to adjust to the ‘new normal’ of prices for VSTs on Ableton, and a budget can only stretch so far. It’s what has stopped me buying any Sugar Bytes apps so far, I admit it, I’m cheap.

    So £3 for the AR 909 was a no-brainer. Since my stuff does not usually use conventional drum patterns, but only discrete sounds, the latency issue is of no great concern to me. And I am blown away by the quality of the sounds, especially what you can do with the bass drum once you mess with pitch and the onboard analog and crusher controls. Put that through, say, Velvet, and maybe Bark Filter, Woot, or Band Delay, and it’s instant Dark Ambient heaven (or hell, I suppose.)

    A very good use of £3, I think. But yes, it’d be cool if it could also, you know, actually be a drum machine that keeps time. Playing out of time after all was my job, back when I used to do a bit of kit pummelling.

  • @Svetlovska said:
    I hummed and hawed and finally passed on Drum Computer due to price - I know, I know, but hey, I’m trying to adjust to the ‘new normal’ of prices for VSTs on Ableton, and a budget can only stretch so far. It’s what has stopped me buying any Sugar Bytes apps so far, I admit it, I’m cheap.

    So £3 for the AR 909 was a no-brainer. Since my stuff does not usually use conventional drum patterns, but only discrete sounds, the latency issue is of no great concern to me. And I am blown away by the quality of the sounds, especially what you can do with the bass drum once you mess with pitch and the onboard analog and crusher controls. Put that through, say, Velvet, and maybe Bark Filter, Woot, or Band Delay, and it’s instant Dark Ambient heaven (or hell, I suppose.)

    A very good use of £3, I think. But yes, it’d be cool if it could also, you know, actually be a drum machine that keeps time. Playing out of time after all was my job, back when I used to do a bit of kit pummelling.

    I really wanted drum computer but had to pass on it due to price. No gigs since March, students aren’t allowed to come to me for guitar lessons... it’s really tough. I was going to just get it at Christmas as I’ll no doubt get some App Store vouchers. But I was lucky enough to win it in Ali Ahmets Facebook group, The Beat Community. I’ve not had a lot of time with it as I’m behind with my video making. I owe videos to Blue Mangoo and Bleass and I’ve been sent a guitar to demo too. But it’s pretty stunning! I mean it’s well worth the money and whilst it looks complex, it all makes perfect sense very quickly. Highly recommended if that lottery win comes up. :)

  • edited November 2020

    Sorry, but I can't understand the "just get on with it" comments. I've already stated I'm happy with the app just to make samples with, the sounds are good, but it fails as a drum machine as you can hear instantly that the timing is off. It does not play nicely with others.

    A real drummer might not be perfectly on grid either but that's not what this app is pretending to be. To give it its due, AR-909 doesn't get pissed or try to get off with my wife. But It's not a nice, lazy drummer feel timing issue either. It's just latency plain and simple. It's like trying to play live with bluetooth headphones -- but worse as it can't even play back in time when programmed.

    I'm happy to give audio kit time to fix their app, I'm in no rush, and am hopeful that they can and will fix it. They clearly know about the issue and have stated they are working on it.

    But I can't accept that it's useable as it is as a drum machine. It's not.

    It does make nice sounds and I'm happy to have it to make samples for use with samplers, but please stop pretending the timing issue is being unfairly criticised.

  • @Jamie_Mallender : yup, I definitely want to get Drum Computer, it looks like I could have a lot of fun with it. Glad you managed to snag it as a freebie. Here’s a promise on the lottery win - If I get the £116 mill up for grabs tonight, everyone on this forum gets an App Store voucher :) (just, you know, don’t bank on that coming through, I understand it’s quite difficult to win the lottery... ;) )

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