Audio Evolution Mobile Studio

dwrae

@bargale said:
Did you see a post i added earlier in regards to a bug recording midi from animoog z?
I posted the steps to recreate it.

I cannot reproduce it and I can hear what's already been recorded when I just press record again, odd. So this is without external MIDI keyboard?

ipadbeatmaking

@bargale said:

@dwrae said:

@bargale said:

@dwrae said:

@cokomairena said:

Im giving AEM a serious chance and noting all the little UX things that drive me mad but i think this make it unusable for me.

AEM doesn’t auto fade the audio clips making them click when you loop them. All audio should have micro fade that ensures no clicks happen when pasting takes.

I created this with the repeat feature.

@dwrae is there a way of addressing this I’m missing? Maybe there is a setting? But if there is it should be activated by default. I’ve tried manually adding fades in and out but it is a very tedious work and it doesn’t work all the time

It would be a serious disaster for most people if the app started to fade clips automatically.

Only if it faded clips that don't sit on top with other clips
Otherwise it would be a blessing.
All daws on desktop work this way and even the latest fl studio update highlighted this feature.

It's not a feature for a small niche but rather a standard for many years already.

While we want it, we also understand you're only human and you already have plans.

I think the best thing to do to make the development roadmap transparent by creating a roadmap like what loopy pro has.
This way you could also see what is more important to us users and what will serve a niche audience.

This is the loopy pro roadmap as a reference -
https://loopypro.com/roadmap

That's the thing, if you move a clip on top of another clip, it will ask for a cross-fade or not. Just putting clips after each other should never do this.

I am very sorry, I won't publish any roadmaps.

I have no malice intentions, it's your software and your choice.
P.S
For the faded clips, adding it as an option in the settings and being able to set it as default could become a goos compromise, thus not affecting anyone who doesn't want it.

+1 For Auto Faded Clips, implemented the way ableton does them would be great! It really helps the process of bringing in, and arranging stems from other apps hardware etc.

Abletons fades are ultra gentle and basically only there to prevent clicks on the loop. The fades aren’t actually audible and that’s what makes them great. On a mobile app, it would be ‘one less task’ a producer/artist/engineer has to complete which is always a good thing. Just drop the stems in, and arrange without worrying about loop click fades, it’d be great!

dwrae

@ipadbeatmaking said:
Abletons fades are ultra gentle and basically only there to prevent clicks on the loop. The fades aren’t actually audible and that’s what makes them great. On a mobile app, it would be ‘one less task’ a producer/artist/engineer has to complete which is always a good thing. Just drop the stems in, and arrange without worrying about loop click fades, it’d be great!

I'd appreciate it if someone could send me two adjacent clips where this problem occurs (from an actual real-world example) and telling me where these clips come from (recording yourself or purchased). Then I can have a look what the actual problem is in the waveform.

Slush

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there also a micro fade-in build into Gauss looper to prevent clicking?

dwrae

@Slush said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there also a micro fade-in build into Gauss looper to prevent clicking?

In loopers, yes, there should be.

cokomairena

@dwrae said:

@ipadbeatmaking said:
Abletons fades are ultra gentle and basically only there to prevent clicks on the loop. The fades aren’t actually audible and that’s what makes them great. On a mobile app, it would be ‘one less task’ a producer/artist/engineer has to complete which is always a good thing. Just drop the stems in, and arrange without worrying about loop click fades, it’d be great!

I'd appreciate it if someone could send me two adjacent clips where this problem occurs (from an actual real-world example) and telling me where these clips come from (recording yourself or purchased). Then I can have a look what the actual problem is in the waveform.

Does this work? https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/093isZoC-pEBtTGQAiPdkHqdA#loop_example

I guess I’m just used to the ableton way where Actually I had to manually fix some kicks for them not to miss the attack.

I see AEM has clip fades, but they are set at zero, maybe a setting where I can choose this fade default duration could fix my issue? And if that setting defaults at zero AEM just works as it is doing right now?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

dwrae

@cokomairena said:
I guess I’m just used to the ableton way where Actually I had to manually fix some kicks for them not to miss the attack.

I see AEM has clip fades, but they are set at zero, maybe a setting where I can choose this fade default duration could fix my issue? And if that setting defaults at zero AEM just works as it is doing right now?

Thanks for the project. I tried fading out and in, but either you don't hear a click and hear the fades, or you still hear a click if the fades are too fast. Is there a technical explanation somewhere on how other apps do this and does Cubasis and Auria do this as well?

bargale

@dwrae said:

@cokomairena said:
I guess I’m just used to the ableton way where Actually I had to manually fix some kicks for them not to miss the attack.

I see AEM has clip fades, but they are set at zero, maybe a setting where I can choose this fade default duration could fix my issue? And if that setting defaults at zero AEM just works as it is doing right now?

Thanks for the project. I tried fading out and in, but either you don't hear a click and hear the fades, or you still hear a click if the fades are too fast. Is there a technical explanation somewhere on how other apps do this and does Cubasis and Auria do this as well?

Cubasis doesn’t do it, auria pro does
This is the implementation in fl studio 21, I’d say it’s done perfectly
Edit - timing reference is 1:45 in the video.

It’s best used when working with audio editing, vocal takes on the same track, mangling breaks from old vinyl records and etc And reduces the time you’ll spend editing a performance with multiple takes.

The way it works right now is it creates a wave file and it is very unusual and counterintuitive, I don’t expect it to create a new wave file and I’m not really sure what is it doing exactly in the backend because other daws don’t react this way, even the ones without auto fades, you’ll just have to edit audio fades manually

bargale

@dwrae said:

@bargale said:

P.S
For the faded clips, adding it as an option in the settings and being able to set it as default could become a goos compromise, thus not affecting anyone who doesn't want it.

Sure, I just don't understand the need or reasoning yet. If you fade-in the start of a kick-loop, you would lose the attack. If you put two loops after each other, you cannot cross-fade since cross-fading requires data that isn't there. If you purchase loops like the ones within AEMS, then the loops are made in such a way that they start and end properly, so no clicks can occur.

P.S
Did you see a post i added earlier in regards to a bug recording midi from animoog z?
I posted the steps to recreate it.

Yes, it's just incredibly busy, sorry. I'll need to look at it.

Yeah, no hurry
Glad you saw it

dwrae

@bargale said:

@dwrae said:

@cokomairena said:
I guess I’m just used to the ableton way where Actually I had to manually fix some kicks for them not to miss the attack.

I see AEM has clip fades, but they are set at zero, maybe a setting where I can choose this fade default duration could fix my issue? And if that setting defaults at zero AEM just works as it is doing right now?

Thanks for the project. I tried fading out and in, but either you don't hear a click and hear the fades, or you still hear a click if the fades are too fast. Is there a technical explanation somewhere on how other apps do this and does Cubasis and Auria do this as well?

Cubasis doesn’t do it, auria pro does
This is the implementation in fl studio 21, I’d say it’s done perfectly
Edit - timing reference is 1:45 in the video.

It’s best used when working with audio editing, vocal takes on the same track, mangling breaks from old vinyl records and etc And reduces the time you’ll spend editing a performance with multiple takes.

The way it works right now is it creates a wave file and it is very unusual and counterintuitive, I don’t expect it to create a new wave file and I’m not really sure what is it doing exactly in the backend because other daws don’t react this way, even the ones without auto fades, you’ll just have to edit audio fades manually

Ok, but that's just cross-fading. You can do that as well in AEMS. Yes, it creates a cross-fade clip in between since the app cannot deal with two audio clips on top of each other, but that doesn't really matter. What was suggested or otherwise I interpreted wrongly, is that if you have 2 clips of let's say 4 beats and there is no other audio data before or beyond that, and you put them next to each other. There is no way you will even be able to cross-fade those since there is no data to cross-fade. So you could overlap them, but then they would get out of time.

bargale

@dwrae said:

@bargale said:

@dwrae said:

@cokomairena said:
I guess I’m just used to the ableton way where Actually I had to manually fix some kicks for them not to miss the attack.

I see AEM has clip fades, but they are set at zero, maybe a setting where I can choose this fade default duration could fix my issue? And if that setting defaults at zero AEM just works as it is doing right now?

Thanks for the project. I tried fading out and in, but either you don't hear a click and hear the fades, or you still hear a click if the fades are too fast. Is there a technical explanation somewhere on how other apps do this and does Cubasis and Auria do this as well?

Cubasis doesn’t do it, auria pro does
This is the implementation in fl studio 21, I’d say it’s done perfectly
Edit - timing reference is 1:45 in the video.

It’s best used when working with audio editing, vocal takes on the same track, mangling breaks from old vinyl records and etc And reduces the time you’ll spend editing a performance with multiple takes.

The way it works right now is it creates a wave file and it is very unusual and counterintuitive, I don’t expect it to create a new wave file and I’m not really sure what is it doing exactly in the backend because other daws don’t react this way, even the ones without auto fades, you’ll just have to edit audio fades manually

Ok, but that's just cross-fading. You can do that as well in AEMS. Yes, it creates a cross-fade clip in between since the app cannot deal with two audio clips on top of each other, but that doesn't really matter. What was suggested or otherwise I interpreted wrongly, is that if you have 2 clips of let's say 4 beats and there is no other audio data before or beyond that, and you put them next to each other. There is no way you will even be able to cross-fade those since there is no data to cross-fade. So you could overlap them, but then they would get out of time.

Nope, I interpreted it wrongly
He meant auto fades for declicking.
Oops

dwrae

@bargale said:
Nope, I interpreted it wrongly
He meant auto fades for declicking.
Oops

Ok, then I need to see this in action somewhere. Clicks come because the waveform is not aligned, and even if it is, it can cause phase weirdness which you can hear, so the only solution is to cross-fade, but you need enough data on either side to perform that cross-fade, meaning the left clip needs some more milliseconds to the right and the right clip needs some more milliseconds of data to the left.

somblebeats

@dwrae Check out the declicking section here for how FL Studio does it - several options are provided but the default is out only 10ms fade. https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/chansettings_sampler.htm

Ableton simply adds a 4ms fade to the start and end of each audio event. https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069969-Create-Fades-on-Clip-Edges-to-avoid-clicks

I find particularly that I run into clicks when I’m chopping up audio on the timeline and rearranging it (something I often do to get more mileage out of loops). In my experience Ableton’s approach works great most of the time, I rarely notice the fade and rarely get clicks, and I can easily edit in either direction when necessary.

cokomairena

@dwrae said:

@cokomairena said:
I guess I’m just used to the ableton way where Actually I had to manually fix some kicks for them not to miss the attack.

I see AEM has clip fades, but they are set at zero, maybe a setting where I can choose this fade default duration could fix my issue? And if that setting defaults at zero AEM just works as it is doing right now?

Thanks for the project. I tried fading out and in, but either you don't hear a click and hear the fades, or you still hear a click if the fades are too fast. Is there a technical explanation somewhere on how other apps do this and does Cubasis and Auria do this as well?

I'm not asking for CROSSFADING (althought I would also want it), that was introduced in FL 21, I'm asking for DECLICKING, this is as old as FL ver. 8:

The technical explanation is this:

Declicking
These options help to remove 'clicks' at the start (in) or end (out) caused by sharp level discontinuities when you slice Audio > > Clips. That is, where the sample starts or ends with a value significantly different from another sample in close proximity, the > sudden jump from one value to the next causes a 'click'. The default setting is 'Out only' (10 ms fade), this will not cause > > > > audible artifacts. Set by ear. NOTE: Alternatively you can use Audio Clip Fades. These allow you to set the length and shape of > the fade-in and fade-out section of an Audio Clip.

So basically is a very quick 10ms fade (it says cosine S-shaped) that it's applyed to sliced audio samples to avoid the instant change to 0 or to the position of the next clip if there are too clips joined.

cokomairena

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069969-Create-Fades-on-Clip-Edges-to-avoid-clicks

This is the Ableton guide

You can activate Create Fades on Clip Edges in the Record/Warp/Launch section of Live's Preferences to prevent any clicks. A short fade (up to 4 ms) will be applied to the Clip start and end.

cokomairena

Ableton does it better so 4ms might be the answer, thecruve is important also, maybe not so much for declicking, but very much for cross fading... But I don't want to touch that

cokomairena

@somblebeats said:
@dwrae Check out the declicking section here for how FL Studio does it - several options are provided but the default is out only 10ms fade. https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/chansettings_sampler.htm

Ableton simply adds a 4ms fade to the start and end of each audio event. https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069969-Create-Fades-on-Clip-Edges-to-avoid-clicks

I find particularly that I run into clicks when I’m chopping up audio on the timeline and rearranging it (something I often do to get more mileage out of loops). In my experience Ableton’s approach works great most of the time, I rarely notice the fade and rarely get clicks, and I can easily edit in either direction when necessary.

Exactly this, sorry I didn't saw this message, but this is exactly what I'm talking about

dwrae

@cokomairena said:

@somblebeats said:
@dwrae Check out the declicking section here for how FL Studio does it - several options are provided but the default is out only 10ms fade. https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/chansettings_sampler.htm

Ableton simply adds a 4ms fade to the start and end of each audio event. https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069969-Create-Fades-on-Clip-Edges-to-avoid-clicks

I find particularly that I run into clicks when I’m chopping up audio on the timeline and rearranging it (something I often do to get more mileage out of loops). In my experience Ableton’s approach works great most of the time, I rarely notice the fade and rarely get clicks, and I can easily edit in either direction when necessary.

Exactly this, sorry I didn't saw this message, but this is exactly what I'm talking about

Ok, but you will probably hear this when it's not a cross-fade, at least on the project in the zip file. Can you please do the 4ms fade in ableton on the same clip arrangement and share a render on how it sounds like?

cokomairena

@dwrae said:

@cokomairena said:

@somblebeats said:
@dwrae Check out the declicking section here for how FL Studio does it - several options are provided but the default is out only 10ms fade. https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/chansettings_sampler.htm

Ableton simply adds a 4ms fade to the start and end of each audio event. https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069969-Create-Fades-on-Clip-Edges-to-avoid-clicks

I find particularly that I run into clicks when I’m chopping up audio on the timeline and rearranging it (something I often do to get more mileage out of loops). In my experience Ableton’s approach works great most of the time, I rarely notice the fade and rarely get clicks, and I can easily edit in either direction when necessary.

Exactly this, sorry I didn't saw this message, but this is exactly what I'm talking about

Ok, but you will probably hear this when it's not a cross-fade, at least on the project in the zip file. Can you please do the 4ms fade in ableton on the same clip arrangement and share a render on how it sounds like?

Here I used the exact same WAV that I sent on the AEM project,

imported to Ableton,

set the bpm to 83,

and I show you the starting 4ms fade that Ableton does on the beginning of the file, you can se the fades are not linear, it's an S shaped curve.

then I duplicated the bars from 5 to 9

and I show you the fade, it ACTUALLY makes a 4ms CROSSFADE by default

So then I unlinked both clips so it didn't cross fade and it makes two 4ms s shaped fades.

then I get rid of the fades and the file seems to loop perfectly, I couldn't even hear a click in the not faded version.

maybe I should try it with a part that don't perfectly loop:

Here I forced the samples to not aling and you can here that both crossfading and fading out and then in don't click.

In this case when I get rid of the fades I get a click.

This is what I'm asking.

On Ableton I don't have to even think about this. It is however an issue when there is a sample with a quick attack, so you can both disable the function or tweaked super fast as I showed you in the video.

I hope this illustrates my point

dwrae

@cokomairena said:

On Ableton I don't have to even think about this. It is however an issue when there is a sample with a quick attack, so you can both disable the function or tweaked super fast as I showed you in the video.

I hope this illustrates my point

Kind of. I don't hear such click in the AEMS project. Only a slight disturbance that one might not even hear when so closely listening. I used two types of headphones. I can also only hear it when going from the 2nd to the 3rd clip, not the 1st and the 2nd, those two are completely without clicks.

What I don't understand in your 2nd video is that at a certain point in time you separate the clips, such that they have a gap, but the audio is gapless..

cokomairena

I don't hear such click in the AEMS project. Only a slight disturbance that one might not even hear when so closely listening.

Is AEM sample accurate? maybe there is a difference between what's playing on your side and mine?

I'm not even using headphones I'm using the iPad speakers, the click is very clear for me, you can hear it in the first video where I uploaded (this: https://youtu.be/nANpTStUkQs )

I can also only hear it when going from the 2nd to the 3rd clip, not the 1st and the 2nd, those two are completely without clicks.

this is correct, as the 1 to the second is just a split of the same clip to be able to duplicate and extend it further, so the sampes should align perfectly there.

What I don't understand in your 2nd video is that at a certain point in time you separate the clips, such that they have a gap, but the audio is gapless..

take into account the shaded part of the screen is 4ms, and that gap was way smaller, maybe a couple samples of silence, so I don't think it's possible to hear.

In any case, can you put an option to auto fade clips with 4ms and make it off by default so people hae the same experience they have had until now?

Then in the future if someone is bothered by clicks it would be an easy "flip this config switch" fix.

Thanks for your time @dwrae !

cokomairena

I don't hear such click in the AEMS project. Only a slight disturbance that one might not even hear when so closely listening.

Also the intensity of the click will depend on the wave diference between the ending sample of the previous clip and the star sample of the next one

this wouldn't click at all:

but this will be louder:

And also the context matter a lot, in very percusive sounds you will probably not notice it at all, but in steady more sine wave like content it will be very evident.

That's Why I only noticed on the sample I sent you, it was a melodic stem

edk

Hi,

I'm looking for a DAW that is able to program change the Elektron AR mk1. The manual says there is a program change parameter but I was wondering if anyone had tried sending program change to the AR? does it work?

dwrae

@edk said:
Hi,

I'm looking for a DAW that is able to program change the Elektron AR mk1. The manual says there is a program change parameter but I was wondering if anyone had tried sending program change to the AR? does it work?

I see no reason why it wouldn't work. It would be a matter of creating a (pure) MIDI track and adding program changes in the piano roll.

edk

@dwrae said:

@edk said:
Hi,

I'm looking for a DAW that is able to program change the Elektron AR mk1. The manual says there is a program change parameter but I was wondering if anyone had tried sending program change to the AR? does it work?

I see no reason why it wouldn't work. It would be a matter of creating a (pure) MIDI track and adding program changes in the piano roll.

I just bought AEM and tried it out. It doesn't seem to send program change to the AR.
I set on AR to receive on program change on channel 1 and set AEM out on midi channel 1 in program change. I put say 1 at bar 1 and 3 and bar 4, and start play and it doesn't send out the changes. Did I miss something out here?

espiegel123

@edk said:

@dwrae said:

@edk said:
Hi,

I'm looking for a DAW that is able to program change the Elektron AR mk1. The manual says there is a program change parameter but I was wondering if anyone had tried sending program change to the AR? does it work?

I see no reason why it wouldn't work. It would be a matter of creating a (pure) MIDI track and adding program changes in the piano roll.

I just bought AEM and tried it out. It doesn't seem to send program change to the AR.
I set on AR to receive on program change on channel 1 and set AEM out on midi channel 1 in program change. I put say 1 at bar 1 and 3 and bar 4, and start play and it doesn't send out the changes. Did I miss something out here?

As a test, load a midi monitor app and send to that to see if it was sent..to make sure the issue isn’t on the receiving side.

dwrae

@edk said:
I just bought AEM and tried it out. It doesn't seem to send program change to the AR.
I set on AR to receive on program change on channel 1 and set AEM out on midi channel 1 in program change. I put say 1 at bar 1 and 3 and bar 4, and start play and it doesn't send out the changes. Did I miss something out here?

Please select the Output button on the track and see if the right MIDI device is selected.

christsinfamie

Hey guys, I watched this video (link: ) and just wanted to check in here, if AEM is a good choice for me to use it alongside BM3 and AUM, especially for tracking live instruments and vocals. Usually I record one instrument after another, but of course that doesn’t always mean only one mic at a time (up to 8 mics at a time would probably be the most I could think of realistically). I also want to do some mixing in the DAW and use my own plugins. The alternative on my radar would be Cubasis but 3 is way more expensive and 2 is not being supported as heavily anymore, which is kinda a big deal to me.

edk

@espiegel123 said:

As a test, load a midi monitor app and send to that to see if it was sent..to make sure the issue isn’t on the receiving side.

Yes I load up midi spy and can see it sends program change on 192 and the respective program change number.

@dwrae said:

@edk said:
I just bought AEM and tried it out. It doesn't seem to send program change to the AR.
I set on AR to receive on program change on channel 1 and set AEM out on midi channel 1 in program change. I put say 1 at bar 1 and 3 and bar 4, and start play and it doesn't send out the changes. Did I miss something out here?

Please select the Output button on the track and see if the right MIDI device is selected.

yes that is also selected. tried both tick to midi event and also to specific channel.
I also tried with the blofeld pulse2, it doesn't work, maybe it's due to the bank, msb and lsb values.