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O.T.: An extraordinarily dark day in American history...
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Rudy Giuliani should be arrested & charged immediately. Sedition, treason, accomplice to insurrection, murder, wrongful death. Of all people, a man once respected by many, he now has the blood of his fellow citizens on his hands. He must be held accountable for his role in the events of 1/6.
2001: Leads a City & the Nation through one of its darkest hours after hate-filled fanatics & terrorists, by order of their insane leader, attack the foundations of US democracy.
2021: Leads a City & the Nation into one of its darkest hours, inciting hate-filled fanatics & terrorists, by order of their insane leader, to attack the foundations of US democracy.
Arnie weighs in:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1348249481284874240
All nationalists think they are patriots. In some ways it seems that the tighter you hold the flag and the more you chant USA, the less you actually respect the laws, people, and system of government of the United States.
I would like to thank the insane Trump crowd for going full on treason so the Americans with blinders on can see who they really are and always have been. Fascists, no different than in any other country.
I know it’s just a meme or whatever but I deeply dislike this sort of demonization image. The reality is appalling enough as it is. I think that grotesque caricatures just undermine the argument.
Just a general observation, not a dig at you @Max23
The education I was speaking of has nothing to do with degrees. It has to do with basic knowledge. I was educated for a few years overseas in my youth, and let me tell you there are things that you don’t learn. Things that aren’t generally just “known” regardless of your education. More specifically, things that have to do with US history, civics, and anything that has to do with race or fascist movements in America.
Some of the many topics untouched and unexamined:
Jim Crow
Any civil rights leader other than Martin Luther
Reparations
Coups in Iran, and all over South America
Our participation in propping up banana republics
Tulsa Race riots
Sun down towns
Our support of Hitler (up to a point)
Smedly Butler (and a previous coup attempt by our oligarchs)
American mythology has papered over our attempts to make this a truly egalitarian society, and has be weaponized by the right as a means to stifle reform and dissent. You’re with us or against us. Socialmalisms! Freedums! American Exceptionalism is no exception. It is a myth.
History didn’t end. We aren’t the only super power (policeman to the world). Greed isn’t good. The confederacy lost. The shining city on the hill (that never really was) is now tarnished.
I still love this country but we need to face a lot of our deliberately forgotten past and reckon with who we actually are.
I enjoy any derogatory image of this fascist.....the more the merrier
Amen. British history is also rife with behaviour that gets brushed under the carpet when educating our citizens. It’s not just historical stuff either...
Empires are assholes
I agree. The caricaturization, if anything, blunts the genuine but more mundane evil of a manipulative narcissist who willfully misleads people (at great cost to society) for his selfish ends.
He began his political career by brazenly spreading lies about Obama’s birth. He lied about the pandemic from the beginning because he didn’t want the stock market to tank —those lies about the pandemic led to hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths and continue to have the effect of undermining efforts to control the pandemic — those lies led to the failed insurrection whose goal was to reverse the results of a legitimate election. His lies were taken up by the majority of his party who now baselessly believe in a massive conspiracy to steal the election from Trump.
It should not be forgotten that many Republicans who are decrying the violence are still furthering those other lies — not because they believe them, but because they know they have popular appeal. They see that it worked for Trump.
Portraying him as a literal demon merely lets people say “see you people are out of control”. The reality is bad enough. Let’s stick to that and educate people about the facts.
@audiblevideo Lol. True. However, it’s not unpatriotic to acknowledge one’s country’s misdemeanors and flaws and seek to improve things for the future.
Truth
Headline: Republicans pushed election lies and armed protests, but say their rhetoric didn’t spur U.S. Capitol chaos
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2021/01/republicans-pushed-election-lies-and-armed-protests-but-say-their-rhetoric-didnt-spur-us-capitol-chaos.html
Pssy *ss btches! seditionists, and sedition enablers, with no regrets. They should be run out of ever holding power.
Not least of which was the introduction of chattel slavery to the American colonies in 1619 — a scourge whose fallout plagues the U.S. to this very day. It is often forgotten that this practice existed for over a century and a half before the colonies declared independence.
Some on this thread had earlier mentioned "Deep Blue" California.
Well, if this is "Deep Blue" I have zero interest in seeing "Deep Red:"
"Here in California’s rural, conservative northern counties — where people have long wanted to split from California and form a new state called Jefferson — the kind of anger and distrust of the government that Trump has fomented is on full display.
And it is not likely to go away any time soon, because some residents believe there is great political utility in making government officials believe that potential violence could become all too real.
“We have to make politicians scared again,” Carlos Zapata, who attended the supervisors’ meeting, told The Times. “If politicians do not fear the people they govern, that relationship is broken.”
As one guy put it: "When the ballot box is gone, there is only the cartridge box. You have made bullets expensive. But luckily for you, ropes are reusable.”
A day before Capitol attack, pro-Trump crowd stormed meeting, threatened officials in rural California - Los Angeles Times
https://apple.news/AHfV5IROST5OfTfxlZ0z6zQ
I know you weren’t advocating eugenics but science did, starting here in the United Kingdom and spreading across the world, used by the NAZI’s to determine who could and couldn’t, ultimately exist.
Yeah. Obviously a bad thing. It’s how you use the tools, etc.
Conan speaks...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/arnold-schwarzenegger-capitol-siege-trnd/index.html
When the male, Austrian, immigrant, white privileged, top 1%, republican tells you it’s bad and wrong it’s f*cking wrong. (Also when Chris Christie says it bad and wrong 🙄)
A coupla things.
The 25th Amendment does not require Trump's assent. If the Vice President and half the cabinet vote to invoke it, the President can challenge it after four days at which point it goes to Congress where it needs a super-majority to be renewed. True that its initial intention had to do with physical disability (Eisenhower had had major heart attacks in office that incapacitated him for a time and there was a brief period when Kennedy was utterly incapacitated but alive before he succumbed to the wounds that killed him), but it was intentionally worded to not just cover such cases. The notion is that if for any reason (physical or mental) that the vice president and half the cabinet find the President incapable of performing his duties that there is a mechanism to suspend him (at least temporarily). It is a a clumsy mechanism (like impeachment) that relies on the majority of actors acting in good faith. But it is the mechanism we have -- and it could be used to reign in a Mad King -- as long as they vice president and cabinet decide they want to do such a thing.
The reports of Trump's behavior over the past week certainly call into question whether he is mentally fit to perform his duties. (It is astonishing how little he is doing -- not the least of doing nothing to get things moving on the the vaccination rollout or doing anything to stop the acceleration of the pandemic -- members of his own party have acknowledged that Trump was excited by the events at the Capitol and was disappointed that others weren't).
I was probably overstating it to use the phrase "Pence has his back" -- perhaps more accurately "Pence is not willing to permanently alienate MAGA". Why do I say that? Pence being silent not only on the 25th (though he has now indicated that he will consider it something else happens) but also silent on calling out those that have endlessly promoted the lies that incited the crowd (Cruz, Hawley, Nunes, Gaetz) to me indicates that he hopes at some point to earn the support of the MAGA/QAnon faction of the party -- and has no intention of shutting them down or invalidating their beliefs -- even though they might well have killed him on Wednesday if they had found him.
What we are seeing is that the majority of GOP politicians are trying to tread a line where they can condemn the smallest number of people possible -- without acknowledging that they have fed the lies that have fed the insurrection. McConnell made a beautiful speech on the Senate floor about why the election must be confirmed.
BUT what he didn't do -- and which would have prevented this from ever happening in the first place -- was acknowledge in November that Biden had won a free and fair election. He waited over a month before acknowledging that Biden had won -- and made no (or little) effort to quell the work of the Senators seeking to sow doubt about the election's validity.
While better than nothing, it stops short of saying that there can be no unity until those that fed the insurrection by baselessly encouraging people to doubt the validity of the election are held accountable -- and that those people should have no voice in determining how to achieve unity. There needs to be a naming of names. Cruz, Hawley, Tuberville, Gaetz, Nunes and a host of others (heck over 1/2 of the GOP in congress) have encouraged their follower to believe in lies in order to fire them up.
Arnold's video might be a nice first step -- if the next step isn't telling us that for the sake of unity we must move on to healing and stop accusing people of things.
We need some truth and accountability before there can be healing and before we can start to have some safety.
As it stands, we still have a considerable number of people in this country that believe in the lies that fueled whatever you want to call what happened on Wednesday. As long as a considerable number of people believe that stuff, our democracy is fragile.
Great thoughts! Once I realized WHY cabinet members were suddenly resigning, I realized how cowardly it was- it had nothing to do with moral outrage. One of them of course being Mitch McConnell’s wife. Sounds like something similar to “Plausible deniability” for all of them- thinking about their own future plans in office rather than what’s best for the country. They can always say “I condemned it! But it was too late to remove him since there was only 2 weeks left in his term.” Of course, since Trump has been doing the same things since he was in high school, too late was a long time ago.
No worries, but this sentence is a heck of a comment that puts a good perspective around it. It’s like complaining your steak tastes like steak or that your “food” at McDonald’s is unhealthy. It is what it is and doesn’t surprise.
It’s a little OT on the already OT, er umm Topic but extra points if anyone can tell us about or give definitions to any of the following:
(I’m curious as to how many people have heard of any of these things/people/topics)
Jim Crow
Any civil rights leader other than Martin Luther
Reparations
Coups in Iran, and all over South America
Our participation in propping up banana republics
Tulsa Race riots
Sun down towns
Our support of Hitler (up to a point)
Smedly Butler (and a previous coup attempt by our oligarchs)
No one should be pandering to the fascists.
Agree Capn. I don't wish to throw any more misery onto the fire, especially when the most important short-term thing is to have Trump out of the Oval etc., but many of the rotten roots of this variable tree can be connected to the problems and endemic corruption of the political soul that comes with a strictly two party system.
The evidence that Pence is not willing to alienate MAGA is that he has remained silent when quite a few Republican leaders have now gone on the record as saying that Trump is unfit and that his efforts to undermine confidence in the election are unconscionable. I think Pence's silence speaks volumes. He will take action if Trump's actions will do something that will tarnish his own (Pence's) standing to such a degree that he has no choice. But he is not willing to alienate them now.
If he had any real courage AND patriotism, he would make a clear statement. He hasn't. It also isn't a surprise. Pence is a reactionary who believes in white Christian supremacy. He is tied to the Council for National Policy and the Mercers -- major backers of Ted Cruz and Breitbart. If you aren't familiar with the Council for National Policy and the Mercers, it is worth spending some time reading up on them.
More insight from Timothy Snyder, author of Tyranny...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage