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O.T.: An extraordinarily dark day in American history...
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I agree he wants to see where he can land. To maximize his landing area he is doing the absolute minimum so as to minimize who gets alienated. I don't mean to imply that he feels loyalty to Trump.
What I was trying to convey is that his only guiding principle is minimizing damage to his future opportunities to be President -- and I believe in that calculus is a belief that he can't alienate MAGA more than he already has -- and a belief that he can win them back over time (not starting tomorrow but when he reemerges in 18 months to start campaigning for the nomination).
I disagree that Pence's base isn't Trump's base (though he might not have Trump's ultimate charismatic appeal). Pence was critical to Trump appealing to the evangelicals that are critical to any Republican winning the nomination. Trump knew it and Pence did. I have no doubt that they have despised each other from day one. Pence need to be VP to launch a future Presidential campaign -- Trump needed the stodgy stick-in-the-mud to appeal to evangelicals.
Pence's future to get the GOP nomination may hinge on his maintaining FUTURE viability with the MAGA base. I have no doubt that Pence knows that if he takes Trump out now that Pence's career is over. Pence has no credibility (zero, absolutely none) with what people now call the moderate wing of the GOP. He knows that. He hates them more than Trump -- because the moderates (to the extent that they exist) are opposed to evangelical rule. They believe in science and gay rights -- things that Pence hates. He, like most of MAGA, put up with Trump in order to achieve the most evangelical-dominated administration ever and to put justices on SCOTUS (there are now six of them) guided by fairly hardcore non-mainstream religious principles.
He probably hates that he gave Trump cover since Trump probably does not care about those policies at all -- except that they earned Trump adulation from MAGA.
Pence hopes that at some point MAGA will see that he is the guy they can count on. Sure, he presided over the counting of the already cast and certified vote -- but he'll let them know that he did it out of loyalty to them. That he had no chance to prevail at that time and was ensuring that he would be around to fight another day.
Will MAGA buy it? Who knows? They bought Trump as some sort of Christian populist even though he is a billionaire who like pornstars and fake boobs and despises what he sees as low-class people.
Will MAGA love him tomorrow is not on Pence's mind. To him, the question is: do I have some chance in four years. Even if it is a small chance, it is bigger than the 0% chance he will have if he pressures Trump to leave. Politicians have massive egos (even good ones -- otherwise they wouldn't be able to get through the endless campaigning). He must imagine that he can eventually win them back.
It isn't clear that that is correct. Trump's former chief-of-staff and former cabinet member said the 25th amendment is the right move -- at least one other former cabinet member has said that Trump should leave office immediately (or words to that effect). It would not surprise me to learn that Chao and Devos chose to resign when they realized Pence wasn't going to pursue the 25th and were worried about what would happen if he remains in office -- they probably didn't want to be there if something else happens. Enough major GOP politicians have expressed belief that Trump needs to be gone immediately that it is not a given that the 25th would have failed if Pence had decided to pursue it. With Chao and Devos gone, it may be harder to pull off.
But pursuing it means the end of MAGA appeal.
Is is interesting to me that Pence has leaked in the last 24 hours that he is considering it -- this is a notable change. And, a cynical ploy. His greatest likelihood of achieving it was immediately -- but Pence didn't realize at that point how many mainstream Republicans wanted Trump gone. Now that he has seen the growing swell of support for removing Trump, he lets it be leaked that he will consider using the 25th if Trump pulls another stunt.
I believe that this is clearly tactical. He is playing it both ways -- trying to signal to the moderates that want Trump out today that he hears them without actually taking any more action. He is praying that Trump doesn't do something terrible in the remaining 10 days.
He is maximizing his options as you said.
Anyway, that is my take.
Sadly, everything you state makes perfect sense, @espiegel123.
You have done an excellent job at pointing out the multi-layered tactical considerations of the typical slim we refer to as "politicians."
Zero morals.
Zero values.
What ever it takes to maintain power...
“Huge numbers of our population, good people on both sides, believe in a complete alternate reality. Alternate facts as it were. But just as intensely as I believe they are deluded, they think I am the one who is deluded. Maybe I am. So how can I be confident in my perception?
It can be quite difficult. But I have found that in times of confusion, particularly when emotions are running high and creating tunnel vision, the presence of Nazis can be an extremely helpful indicator. If I am attending a local demonstration or event and I see Nazis… neo-Nazis, miscellaneous-Nazis or the latest-whatever-uber-mythology-Nazis, I figure out which side they are on. And if they are on my side of the demonstration, I am on the wrong side. It is tough to argue moral equivalence when I am standing next to a Nazi.
Look to my right. Is there a guy wearing a 6MWE (6 million wasn’t enough) t-shirt? I am on the wrong side. Look to my left. If that guy is wearing a Camp Auschwitz t-shirt? Wrong side. Speakers referring to things Hitler got right? Wrong side. Team-spirit face paint and hat with horns? This is an unclear indicator that could mean anything but safest to keep my distance from that guy even at a football game. But I can always, always, always, rely on the presence of Nazis as a guiding light through a fog of disinformation."
Though they might ALL not BE Nazis the right is now standing WITH Nazis. May this be a compass we use to navigate by.
Who is Smedley Butler
https://www.arcadiapublishing.com/Navigation/Community/Arcadia-and-THP-Blog/September-2018/Smedley-Butler-and-the-1930s-Plot-to-Overthrow-the
The fact that someone would try to distract from the basic premise of an insurrection to point out that there were a few who have a different color skin is incredibly sad.
We have a long way to go before we can say we’ve even made a small dent in resolving race issue in America, but I feel you’re right @CapnWillie - there will be people who try to nullify the racism aspect of these groups who participated by parading any non-white participants.
Things are going from bad to worse with my dog. He told me today he has a large following on a social media platform only for dogs. I was shocked. It’s called Critter. He says when I’m not looking he posts up to 50 woofs a day, mostly rewoofing slander against cats. Help!
Sorry to hear it - that’s ruff...
"Well you know the man that was talking to the dog, looked at the dog (sort of staring in disbelief) and said 'you can't say that!' "
— Frank Zappa
Like I said...
My dog is now insufferable because she has more Twitter followers than Trump.
Yeah, sometimes you have to just take a step back and try to put yourself in the shoes of others the best you can. There’s a lot that probably doesn’t translate into news articles, and it’s easy to forget that and just take the incomplete picture and go from there.
Quckers! Livin’ Tha Stereotype!
Excellent article, thanks!
I didn’t see that, I had just read that he died. It was suicide? That’s awful.
Wow, thanks for posting that, it was a great article.
I think we need a musical break.
https://youtu.be/M-r1b2H9FKs
Coleman Hughes works for the Manhattan Institute which is a very right wing think tank. Whatever he wants to call himself, he's a right winger. Glenn Loury was selected for the position of undersecretary of education for Reagan's administration (before having to withdraw due to a personal scandal) in 1987 - so yeah, definitely on the right. John McWhorter I don't know so well (though some of the people he associates with I do). He hates the book 'White Fragility' so he can't be that bad I guess. So yeah I take it back about him - I was judging him by some of his associations, but I haven't actually read anything by him.
It's a complaint in the sense that it's wrong. There are left leaning and left wing magazines in the US - Vox isn't one of them.
I don't really care. The man deliberated created a fuss over something very silly at his old university, and lied about the events that happened in order to himself look like this massive victim. I don't think he's honest, or is acting in good faith.
The whole who’s left, who’s right thing does somewhat depend on where you’re standing in the lineup...
The left / right world view dysmorphia thing does seem to be a crutch for many, like religion.
Exactly!
It seems that this whole thread is about exactly this. It starts off as "An extraordinarily dark day in American history..." and quickly becomes a rant by the author and his supporters in an effort to out other forum members as to their political stripes. Where upon they descend like a bunch of ghouls to feast on the caresses of their imagined political opponents.
No real political discussion allowed here. Just rants and finger pointing.
Typical pinko commie replicant bullshit. Go back to Tyrell.
I've got to say, I'm taking no small delight in the news of the most infamous rioters already being arrested, and reading the #NoFlyList posts on Twitter. I'm waiting for the updates from the House and on the 25th.
While I'm anxious about the next 9 days (and even after), 2021 is looking bright. We just have to wait out the tail of 2020. (Who thought it would be a good idea to use a space reverb?!)
Oh... just wait for that drop... (it ain't over yet)
HA HA. See what I mean. This guy is really confused. He can't tell up from down or left from right. He thinks he knows all the buzz words anyway.
Do you have some political insights to share? Or did you just want to point your finger at other people for what you consider finger pointing?
?
USA, 6000km far away.
I don't fucking care.
My insight is this;
Even though you may think that you know best, sometimes it makes more sense to stand back from the crowd and clear your mind and spread positive thought through positive actions like making music.
Ahm gonna get rich donatin' to this here wrastlin' slot machine Ma!