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Got the full shabango, Spent some time with it in the last couple of days, here are my thoughts
Short version> Take a Pass.
Basically, - the sound just isn’t there. I mean, it’s a fine app and does most everything you’d expect. Having used the IAA for years when I wanted a guitar solo nonsense kinda sound, I was looking forward to this new version, but, having literally put the IAA and AU head to head with the same presets, I honestly prefer the sound of the older app! It’s my hope that the sound engine will get some more overhauling. Maybe add an “ir loader” (the kids love ‘em) or have someone help alter the core modeling engine. The AU is harsher and more brittle, which is not good for an app where the amps are generally found to have a buzzy distortion. I was hoping that the algorithms behind this app would really improve to match the th-u, nembrini, gainstage vintage clean, level, but that just has not come to pass. Honestly, I may just keep the IAA on my iPad and remove this week’s version.
The thing about Tonestack is that it tries too hard to make your guitar sound like “it’s coming from a guitar amp” where the result is a lot of boxiness, a lack of transparency, and killing a good range of your signal. It forces your sound to go through the app as a filter. When you play through any “amp “ it should sound like your guitar playing, but with Tonestack, things can be masked to the point where I switch pickups and hear no differences in the sound.
Worse, many presets/amps/effects are “noisy” to the point of uselessness as, say, I’ve got massive hum even though I’m playing through humbuckers and, oh yeah, the volume is off. Why is it making noise? No, no one’s signal path is gonna be completely buzz-free, but the ish is really unusually bad. Not just with high gain settings, I mean with the acoustic stuff too. A lot of the reverbs are super artificial, where they jump up in volume immediately after whatever you played. a lot of the amps end up with the samesy samesy ugly buzzy distortion with not much of a feeling of being reactive to my playing. Sometimes effects will slur when changing between presets (like if you were changing the delay-time on an analog delay), but these happen randomly and not just when you reuse the same effect.
Over the years I’ve certainly come up with useable settings on the IAA-version. I do wish I were able to copy/clone one of the effects to another preset. Instead, I keep having to setup the same units to the same settings manually.
HUGE plus column for Tonestack is that it is well designed as a truly native iOS app so everything is super intuitive as far as how to make changes and adjustments. As an AU the interface has been (re)designed to match shrunken rectangular views but still make it easy to jump around. Everything skeuomorphic works the way you would expect it to which is something that TH-U, being a port of a desktop app, completely sucks at)
If you play guitar in iOS, I consider Roxsyn by Yonac to be a must buy, but ToneStack, at the moment, not at all.
...As always, just one shmuck’s point of view...
Someone asked about the polyphonic octaver effect- as compared to a real POG2, it’s good but is always somewhat distorted.
True, some of the fx, like pitchmod octavers and delays are noisy and muddy compared to the IAA version. And the volume is low on the fx.
I hope that an update could fix this issue.
Well I bought it, but I think I like Nembrini and THU better still.
I hear peeps talking IR loads here. Could this be an opportunity to create some pool of favourite ones people have/use? To spare going through millions of iffy ones on the net?
I have to say I’m totally new to IR and never really used the technology but I’m definitely intrigued and especially curious about clean tones.
Thanks, @boberto for the thoughtful review.
Opening the standalone first seems to be pretty standard. I’ve had to do this with several synths.
There was quite a bit of discussion about this yesterday in this thread. See the wiki (search for cabinet or IR and will find an article that includes helpful tips).
Short version: don’t waste your time hunting down free cabinet IRs (the free ones tend to be mediocre or illegal copies of commercial products). Good cabinet IRs such as those from OwnHammer tend to even be preferred to the IRs included in the Nembrini amps or Overloud rigs. The OwnHammer rEvolution has a great assortment of cabs from 112 through 412 that is likely more than you will ever need. (There is a slightly less expensive Tone Bundle, too). The wiki article has links to tips about the 12 IRs in those bundles to install. The article also links to @Daveypoo’s primer on using IR cabs. A lot of folks were IR skeptics till they tried them.
I would be curious to hear what people think of the new ToneStack when using a decent IR rather than the built-in cabs. A great IR can dramatically improve things like fizz.
I believe the free IR @flo26 posted was one that used to be on the OwnHammer site. They used to have a Mesa 4x12 IR that was free. But they removed it some time ago.
One can get single cabs from Ownhammer for about $8 if you know for sure what you want that is an inexpensive way to go.
I have gone through hundreds of free cabinet IRs -- many sounded ok UNTIL you compared them to a really good cabinet IR -- and then I found out that some of the better ones were from commercial packs.
But the thing is that the built-in cabs are almost universally worse than with a good IR that if one had limited time I would think one would want to give an idea of how they can sound with a decent IR. I appreciate it as it gives me a sense of whether the amp sim will give me a good experience.
If I hear it with a mediocre cab, I wouldn't be able to disambiguate a great sim with a mediocre cabinet from a mediocre sim. A lot of the sims sound equally 'not great' with a mediocre cab, but when you use a good cab some of those still sound mediocre but some sound great.
I for one appreciate hearing them played with a decent IR since it is known that that is a weak link easily solvable for a modest cost.
good points
I can't understand why the built-in cabs should be universally worse than IRs. Why wouldn't the built-in cabs leverage built-in IRs? The IRs themselves are each just a few kilobytes of data.
It is an eternal mystery. Good cabinet simulation is apparently harder than one would think -- given how few cabinet simulators (that aren't just using IRs) seem great.
Also, creating good IRs is apparently not trivial. Nembrini, for example, uses IRs, but they just don't generally seem as pleasing as a lot of Ownhammer's offerings.
One little problem might be issues of ownership of top quality IRs by the app developers. They'd need to license the products they resell. They'd be more likely to provide an IR loader and let the user obtain his own IRs. That said, the recent 20th Anniversary amp includes IRs created by the app dev.
Sorry if i missed this - is there a list of what is covered in the main purchase and what is in the IAP?
https://www.yonac.com/tonestackpro/gear.html
If you don’t like the sound, try it with the limiter switched off.
Interesting review @boberto.
For amp sims I’d say Nembrini and good IRS. Like @espiegel123 says, IRS make a huge difference. I myself though it was sort of snobby, I’m not too picky or obsessed with amp recreations being too exact as long as they sound good. And IRS certainly make even the great sounding Nembrinis sound a lot better.
I’d go as far as to say that they’d fix a lot of the boxiness and things that @boberto doesn’t like about ToneStack.
I have the Funk pack and a couple of fuzz pedals on THU. I like ToneStack’s pedals better, and a lot cheaper. THUs octaver (boss emulation one) is terrible, the ones on ToneStack are a lot better.
Again, if not for the amp sims, ToneStack is a great value for the arsenal of effects.
On the subject of IRs...
If anyone is looking for a deal on Celestion IRs use the code SPRING30 to get 30% off until 3rd May
https://www.celestionplus.com/?mc_cid=3ffd6ea7aa&mc_eid=b7e1dfc713
York audio have recently released a $1 2x12
https://www.yorkaudio.co/product-page/mes-212-v30-limited
and ToneJunkie also have a few good free ones if you sign up for their newsletter
https://tonejunkiestore.com/impulse-responses-1
Most cab simulations aren't based on IR's at all. They're software emulations that try to algorithmically model the characteristics of cabinets, just as the amps and FX are modeled. Convolution is processor intensive, and as has been mentioned, it's not easy to produce good IRs, and you can't just download some to put in a commercial product.
Increased usage of impulse responses for cab simulation is a fairly recent phenomenon. I think we'll see more and more apps include IR loaders over time. Happily ToneStack is considering doing just that.
https://youtu.be/7zPd7tGZ6pE
I'll take a look at Patchstorage. Yeah we spent a crazy amount of time trying to do something for patch sharing before, and it didn't work out.
It's as easy as putting on a hat.
I enjoyed that.
Brought a smile to my face.
Nice once.
Yeah, I agree it's worth it for the effects
alone especially the ones based on the classics.
The Fu-Tron iv is a lot of fun.
I love playing bass as well.
That’s exactly how I solved the problem also. 👍
I'm huge fan of Patchstorage, and with this kind of app (so many possibilities) it could be great idea.
I have just jumped into TSP and it is a great app.
Yeah, I lost a chunk of my day just messing around with Fu-Tron. 😂 I was supposed to make dinner but..
Lololololol....
Yeah, been there, still doing that. 😂
I mean, it’s as simple as trying to get enough votes after clicking the “make a request “ in the user menu.
@boberto Thank you. I just checked it. A new platform request proposal:
^ In my opinion "ToneStack PRO Guitar Amps & FX" is to long name for Patchstorage, "ToneStack PRO" should be fine (some another names are also shortened).
^ Additional comment not appear on requested and aproved platform page so I duplicated content from "Additional comment" in "Platform description" at the end.
On Patchstorage is warning: "Once you click 'Submit' you won't be able to make any changes". Should something be changed before sending request?
Agreed. You still can dial in a decent amp/cab tone especially if it’s sitting in a mix and the ability to split signal into stereo will greatly liven up the sound to the point of the purist’s tone becoming secondary.
I always found octaver effect way above anything else I’ve tried hardware or software and it also tracks more than one note which is pretty amazing....it has a decent sound to boot.
The one thing that I’m not too keen on is that effects can’t be bought individually but I guess I’d probably spend more on the few things I like than just going for the, still cheap, bulk option.