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The Nightmare that is a Reality
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It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.
Don’t feed the troll.
I don't think he's a troll. He is just someone who posts questionable "information" and then is unable or unwilling to back it up with any evidence.
He still hasn't answered my question about his claim that governments are taking measures that go "against the science and the maths". He obviously doesn't have an answer. I am guessing he is merely repeating something he heard on Fox News or talkback radio. Or maybe he just made it up...?
Only he can tell us...and he's not answering.
Some interesting COVID "information":
https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/about/
There's some pretty nutty "info" out there....
What intelligent person actually believes “there has never, ever been a credible plan to” — scare quote alert! — “ ‘stop’ the spread”?
A person who wants to stifle debate, spread misinformation and start brush fires. In other words, a troll.
Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."
There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.
There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.
History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.
Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.
The ad hominem attacks are pointless. Provide factual evidence to the contrary or admit you're just wrong.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/489265-6-ways-that-the-coronavirus-pandemic-could-end
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/how-and-when-will-this-pandemic-end-we-asked-a-virologist/
https://www.newsweek.com/can-coronavirus-stopped-how-have-other-pandemics-ended-1490180
Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/22/dr-anthony-fauci-warns-the-coronavirus-wont-ever-be-totally-eradicated.html
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/covid-19-will-likely-be-with-us-forever-heres-how-well-live-with-it
https://blogs.webmd.com/public-health/20200911/will-covid-ever-end
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/05/11/coronavirus-likely-will-infect-us-all-lockdown-delaying-inevitable-14779
And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health
Well said!
Now, perhaps YOU could "put up or shut up"... and answer the question you seem unable to answer:
If "the science and maths don't support and of it", as you claim, why would governments around the world, both left wing and right wing, support masks, vax and lockdowns?
Every politician would love for COVID to just go away. It is a massive problem for them to contend with. Surley, for political survival, they would take the best path to beat COVID. If successful they would remove a huge load from them to manage, plus they could claim victory through their great leadership. They could say "I led us out of the COVID disaster, vote for me!".
Why would they take a path that "the science and math doesn't support"? That would expose them to accountability at a later date when things go badly wrong and people get sick, the health system collapses under the weight and people die. No politician wants that.
Perhaps you could explain your point of view, or maybe you will have to admit you're just wrong....
Re the recent New Zealand outbreak This is true. We have been living normally, mostly, since June 2020. Playing gigs at bars, going to shows, everything except external tourism, apart from a short term 'bubble' link with Australia, which is where our outbreak came from. I think partly we decided not to rush vaccination because other countries were worse off and needed them more. I think our govt was slow on securing supplies, and also decided to adopt a wait and see approach. Which mostly worked. There has definitely been criticism about it though.
We went into full nationwide lockdown 2 weeks ago, which means everyone except essential workers. Supermarkets and gas stations are pretty much all that's open. I had a doctor and a dentist appt cancelled. So when we lockdown, we do it for real.
This lockdown was instituted after 1 community case, but infection has spread quite rapidly. New cases are now mostly family members of cases, which have been in isolation. So hopefully we can get on top of it. Nearly all cases are in Auckland, a few in Wellington. There are none in the South island where I live.
There has been criticism of the slow vax roll out, but that is happening pretty strongly now, as we got a big delivery of the pfizer around the time of the break out. Each day has been a new record of vaccinations.
It remains to be seen whether we'll get rid of it or have to live with it, like everywhere else.
None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.
None of it is even relevant.
Pointing out that scientists have made mistakes is irrelevant.
None of what you posted speaks to the facts I mentioned about the fact that we often are able to take measures that prevent everyone from contracting a particular virus.
Rather than post random links about how mitigation efforts are less than perfect (which is normal even in the best cases) or about scientists making mistakes (which by the way is how science works...it is how scientists respond to those errors that is critical...and how science works), how about articulate you your viewpoint and make your case.
I don't think he understands that "COVID not going away" is not the same as "everybody gets infected".
Echo
In the real world, flus are with us forever. That’ll be the same with COVID.
Your statement was that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps are taken. That is completely different from "COVID wont be eradicated".
p.s. And if it is endemic (which seems likely), it means we still need to take actions (including widespread vaccination and masking and other behavioral changes) to minimize the nimber of people that become infected.
It occurs to me he may have you on "ignore" and not be reading your posts.
Could be. But I think he just doesn't have an answer.
Either way, I'm fine with it :-)
Intransigent in behavior and thought is no way to go through life or a pandemic from an NOVEL virus that IS deadly and debilitating and has proven it can and will mutate given opportunity to. (Vaccines and masking help stop that)
Just throwing your hands up in the air and saying “oh well we’ll all get it” is lazy and dangerous.
Just like throwing your hands up in the air when a natural disaster happens, when corruption happens, when slavery happens, when rape happens, when global human caused catastrophes happen
“Just oh well” is the height of privilege narcissism and nihilism.
(I swear this time I won’t be returning to this thread unless someone throws up a bat signal for me specifically)
Yes, EVERYONE will get COVID eventually because it will remain with us, just like the annual flu.
There’s really nothing left to add to this very basic truth.
True. It’s a choice to play the lottery between no Covid, Covid and long Covid.
As for democracy, it never worked. First it was enforced by a sword, then influenced by gov media and now by the conglomerate of gov and social media. I hope it’s not the best we’ll ever have.
You left out "death" :-)
I guess the other aspect of this is that it might be ok for you to play the lottery with your own health, but it is not when you are playing the lottery with other people's health by possibly infecting them.
Or to look at it from the other direction: would you want to end up in hospital seriously ill just because someone else couldn't be bothered to take precautions?
Yep
Upfront: it is important to take care and be cautious. This virus is dangerous and we shouldn’t allow it to circulate uncontrollably.
I heard the same statement from some top German virologists. We will all get in touch with the virus one day. If our immune system is not so strong like young people usually are then the question is if our immune system is prepared for that. The main goal of the vaccination is also not preventing the infection but rather save us from getting seriously ill. Infected or not infected is not as black or white as one might think. It is more like: did the immune system manage to prevent the intruder from reproducing itself so massively that it outnumbers the countermeasures. For most of today‘s kids Covid will very likely be just like a flu as their immune system had been trained.
I’ve learned about a historic pandemic that might give us an outlook what we can expect. It was called the Russian flu and it circulated in the 1890s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic
For a long time it was considered to be an influenza virus. In recent years there is more and more evidence that it was not influenza but a coronavirus. The symptoms sound astonishingly similar: high fever and loss of taste and smell. So they tried to find the virus and the outcome was that most probably it was the well-known human coronavirus OC43 which nowadays for us is one of these coronavirus that cause a cold with sneezing and coughing. During the global pandemic it killed about 1 million people, circulated in several waves and after some years the pandemic faded out. Most probably because people became immune and the virus mutated into a less harmful strain. Nowadays the virus still exists, we all had got it in our lifetime. It is a human virus and it did not go away. Exactly that is what virologists mean that we all will get infected with COVID-19 one day.
I'm in a country that has a public health system but I guess our USA friends who end up in hospital with COVID not only have the physical pain of the illness but also the financial pain as well. I imagine that would be quite expensive? Thousands of dollars? Tens of thousands?
+1
Somebody could make a fortune if this was printed on toilet tissue, for their bunkers.
I see you responded to a ridiculous comment which still needs to be refuted.
Vaccinated people can still get COVID. Vaccinated people can still transmit COVID to others. These are documented facts.
Given those two facts, it is the sole responsibility of those at-risk and their families to get vaccinated and to take whatever measures are appropriate to their situation.
An unvaccinated person has no greater chance of spreading COVID than a vaccinated person. They are both potential spreaders. Saying otherwise is just an uninformed position of propaganda.