Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

What is Loopy Pro?Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.

Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.

Download on the App Store

Loopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.

The Nightmare that is a Reality

1910111315

Comments

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

  • Don’t feed the troll.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:
    Don’t feed the troll.

    I don't think he's a troll. He is just someone who posts questionable "information" and then is unable or unwilling to back it up with any evidence.

    He still hasn't answered my question about his claim that governments are taking measures that go "against the science and the maths". He obviously doesn't have an answer. I am guessing he is merely repeating something he heard on Fox News or talkback radio. Or maybe he just made it up...?

    Only he can tell us...and he's not answering.

  • Some interesting COVID "information":

    https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/about/

    There's some pretty nutty "info" out there....

  • @Simon said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Don’t feed the troll.

    I don't think he's a troll.

    What intelligent person actually believes “there has never, ever been a credible plan to” — scare quote alert! — “ ‘stop’ the spread”?

    A person who wants to stifle debate, spread misinformation and start brush fires. In other words, a troll.

  • @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Simon said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Don’t feed the troll.

    I don't think he's a troll.

    What intelligent person actually believes “there has never, ever been a credible plan to” — scare quote alert! — “ ‘stop’ the spread”?

    A person who wants to stifle debate, spread misinformation and start brush fires. In other words, a troll.

    The ad hominem attacks are pointless. Provide factual evidence to the contrary or admit you're just wrong.

  • edited August 2021

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

    Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?

    And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

  • @NeuM said:
    Provide factual evidence to the contrary or admit you're just wrong.

    Well said!

    Now, perhaps YOU could "put up or shut up"... and answer the question you seem unable to answer:

    If "the science and maths don't support and of it", as you claim, why would governments around the world, both left wing and right wing, support masks, vax and lockdowns?

    Every politician would love for COVID to just go away. It is a massive problem for them to contend with. Surley, for political survival, they would take the best path to beat COVID. If successful they would remove a huge load from them to manage, plus they could claim victory through their great leadership. They could say "I led us out of the COVID disaster, vote for me!".

    Why would they take a path that "the science and math doesn't support"? That would expose them to accountability at a later date when things go badly wrong and people get sick, the health system collapses under the weight and people die. No politician wants that.

    Perhaps you could explain your point of view, or maybe you will have to admit you're just wrong....

  • @espiegel123 said:

    They, like Australia, did not put emphasis on vaccination. They relied on other mitigation alone -- which was hugely successful till Delta arrived.

    Re the recent New Zealand outbreak This is true. We have been living normally, mostly, since June 2020. Playing gigs at bars, going to shows, everything except external tourism, apart from a short term 'bubble' link with Australia, which is where our outbreak came from. I think partly we decided not to rush vaccination because other countries were worse off and needed them more. I think our govt was slow on securing supplies, and also decided to adopt a wait and see approach. Which mostly worked. There has definitely been criticism about it though.

    We went into full nationwide lockdown 2 weeks ago, which means everyone except essential workers. Supermarkets and gas stations are pretty much all that's open. I had a doctor and a dentist appt cancelled. So when we lockdown, we do it for real.

    This lockdown was instituted after 1 community case, but infection has spread quite rapidly. New cases are now mostly family members of cases, which have been in isolation. So hopefully we can get on top of it. Nearly all cases are in Auckland, a few in Wellington. There are none in the South island where I live.

    There has been criticism of the slow vax roll out, but that is happening pretty strongly now, as we got a big delivery of the pfizer around the time of the break out. Each day has been a new record of vaccinations.

    It remains to be seen whether we'll get rid of it or have to live with it, like everywhere else.

  • @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

    Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?

    And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

    None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.

    None of it is even relevant.

    Pointing out that scientists have made mistakes is irrelevant.

    None of what you posted speaks to the facts I mentioned about the fact that we often are able to take measures that prevent everyone from contracting a particular virus.

    Rather than post random links about how mitigation efforts are less than perfect (which is normal even in the best cases) or about scientists making mistakes (which by the way is how science works...it is how scientists respond to those errors that is critical...and how science works), how about articulate you your viewpoint and make your case.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.

    None of it is even relevant.

    I don't think he understands that "COVID not going away" is not the same as "everybody gets infected".

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

    Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?

    And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

    None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.

    None of it is even relevant.

    Pointing out that scientists have made mistakes is irrelevant.

    None of what you posted speaks to the facts I mentioned about the fact that we often are able to take measures that prevent everyone from contracting a particular virus.

    Rather than post random links about how mitigation efforts are less than perfect (which is normal even in the best cases) or about scientists making mistakes (which by the way is how science works...it is how scientists respond to those errors that is critical...and how science works), how about articulate you your viewpoint and make your case.

    In the real world, flus are with us forever. That’ll be the same with COVID.

  • @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

    Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?

    And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

    None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.

    None of it is even relevant.

    Pointing out that scientists have made mistakes is irrelevant.

    None of what you posted speaks to the facts I mentioned about the fact that we often are able to take measures that prevent everyone from contracting a particular virus.

    Rather than post random links about how mitigation efforts are less than perfect (which is normal even in the best cases) or about scientists making mistakes (which by the way is how science works...it is how scientists respond to those errors that is critical...and how science works), how about articulate you your viewpoint and make your case.

    In the real world, flus are with us forever. That’ll be the same with COVID.

    Your statement was that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps are taken. That is completely different from "COVID wont be eradicated".

    p.s. And if it is endemic (which seems likely), it means we still need to take actions (including widespread vaccination and masking and other behavioral changes) to minimize the nimber of people that become infected.

  • wimwim
    edited August 2021

    @Simon said:
    Now, perhaps YOU could "put up or shut up"... and answer the question you seem unable to answer:

    It occurs to me he may have you on "ignore" and not be reading your posts.

  • @wim said:
    It occurs to me he may have you on "ignore" and not be reading your posts.

    Could be. But I think he just doesn't have an answer.

    Either way, I'm fine with it :-)

  • Intransigent in behavior and thought is no way to go through life or a pandemic from an NOVEL virus that IS deadly and debilitating and has proven it can and will mutate given opportunity to. (Vaccines and masking help stop that)

    Just throwing your hands up in the air and saying “oh well we’ll all get it” is lazy and dangerous.
    Just like throwing your hands up in the air when a natural disaster happens, when corruption happens, when slavery happens, when rape happens, when global human caused catastrophes happen

    “Just oh well” is the height of privilege narcissism and nihilism.

    (I swear this time I won’t be returning to this thread unless someone throws up a bat signal for me specifically)

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

    Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?

    And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

    None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.

    None of it is even relevant.

    Pointing out that scientists have made mistakes is irrelevant.

    None of what you posted speaks to the facts I mentioned about the fact that we often are able to take measures that prevent everyone from contracting a particular virus.

    Rather than post random links about how mitigation efforts are less than perfect (which is normal even in the best cases) or about scientists making mistakes (which by the way is how science works...it is how scientists respond to those errors that is critical...and how science works), how about articulate you your viewpoint and make your case.

    In the real world, flus are with us forever. That’ll be the same with COVID.

    Your statement was that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps are taken. That is completely different from "COVID wont be eradicated".

    p.s. And if it is endemic (which seems likely), it means we still need to take actions (including widespread vaccination and masking and other behavioral changes) to minimize the nimber of people that become infected.

    Yes, EVERYONE will get COVID eventually because it will remain with us, just like the annual flu.

    There’s really nothing left to add to this very basic truth.

  • edited August 2021

    @NeuM said:

    @LinearLineman said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr, you are making perfect sense, IMO. I disagree with our respected colleague @NeuM. Last numbers I heard were that the vaccines were about 67% effective against Delta. Also, the immunity apparently deteriorates over time hence the boosters being made available in the US. So your 600 attendees have a 1 in 3 chance of contracting it if contact is made. asymptotically, perhaps, but still
    really infectious to take home to the kiddies. Bah. The Age of Idiocy is well upon us now. Have you heard about the Delta+ variant?

    Now let’s talk about Afghanistan to take our minds off Covid,

    LL, If you endorse those quoted statistics, how might you characterize the "unmasked ball" (the gigantic birthday party) attended by possibly hundreds of maskless individuals?

    What is this maskless ball of which you speak? Certainly, you aren't speaking of an event attended only by fully-vaccinated people who had all were COVID negative> @knewspeak said:

    The vaccines don’t stop the spread, which means they will continue to mutate…endemic.

    "vaccines don't stop the spread" is a misleading statement. It implies something that isn't true.

    While it is true that if you are vaccinated AND become infected that it is possible for you to infect someone else. This is true of all vaccines...even those like the smallpox and polio vaccines that have more or less eliminated those diseases.

    Vaccines (including the COVID vaccines) dramatically reduce spreading by making it MUCH less likely that someone will become infected in the first place. Additionally, if you do become infected while vaccinated, you are infectious for reduced period of time.

    So, vaccinated people are much less likely to spread the disease when there is a large pool of infected people. And if everyone were vaccinated, the virus would spread much less than if everyone were vaccinated.

    What I stated is perfectly true, nothing misleading. You then go on to agree. Vaccination will save lives, but won’t stop the virus spreading nor mutating, infant could cause them to mutate in more deadlier resilient forms, this is the risk. The genetic arms race.

    Vaccination reduces spreading dramatically. Your statement implies otherwise.

    Reducing spread (which vaccination does when widely adopted) also reduces mutations.

    Will vaccination by itself eliminate the disease entirely, no. Global vaccination will dramatically reduce emergence of new mutations.

    The vaccines are not a cure. They are a therapy to reduce the recovery time after contracting COVID. Both unvaccinated and vaccinated can carry and transmit COVID according to the latest body of knowledge. And you can get COVID whether you’ve been vaccinated or not.

    On the upside, only about 1% of the population is at great potential risk and those at greatest risk fall into known high risk groups. Getting and recovering from COVID naturally is still the best case scenario for more than 99% of the population, vaccine or no vaccine. And forcing 99% into vaccine compliance to accommodate 1% is “undemocratic”, to put it charitably.

    Vaccines reduce the likelihood of infection and drastically reduce the odds of serious illness.

    "natural immunity" provides less robust immunity than the COVID vaccines.

    You are also completely off-base when you say only 1% is at great potential risk.

    It needs to be added death is not the only bad outcome.

    This notion that forcing vaccination is "undemocratic" flies in the face of history. Smallpox eliminated and polio largely so via vaccination mandates.

    If you’re talking about “worldwide” statistics, the number is slightly higher. Around 2%. In the US, it’s about 1%.

    Source: https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

    That data does not say or imply that "only" 1% are AT RISK.

    also, it can't be said often enough, if the only statistic you pay attention to is mortality, you are way underestimating the impact of this disease.

    The only thing that matters is whether a person is going to live. No one is worried about being uncomfortable versus being dead.

    You really need to read up on Covid, long covid is not merely being uncomfortable. A forum member (well-known developer) spent months in the hospital and even six months later nowhere near 100%. I daresay if you ask him, he will tell you that what he suffered is something far far worse than being uncomfortable.

    A significant percentage of those that become symptomatic have long-term consequences.

    Even if fewer than one percent of covid-positive people have died that does not mean only 1% are at risk. Either you don't know what "at risk" means or you are misinformed.

    I know I won't convince you...you have heard this all before. I say this for those that might read what you post and mistake it for the truth.

    Although I was later vaccinated, I’ve been sick since late 2019 from possible side effects of COVID (my doctor still is unable to definitively say what it is) so you really have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

    And I maintain that my personal discomfort is not reason enough to shut down a city, a state or a country. 98-99% percent of the entire human population will not die from COVID and they need to be afforded the simple human dignity to decide for themselves how they want to live their lives.

    So please stop making these moronic assumptions about me and what I believe.

    Also, if the folks who seem to make the most noise about others getting vaccinated or wearing masks were to really demand answers and accountability from China over this possibly lab engineered virus***, then they’d be doing something useful!

    Demand those answers and demand international access to the lab in Wuhan.

    ***(Even Dr. Fauci has finally admitted it might have been engineered in the lab in Wuhan, this is not wild conspiracy speculation.)

    Wow, sorry to hear about your long Covid issues. I would wear a mask as long as needed and get every vaccination to try to have prevented your infection as well as anyone else’s. I don’t think you have to shut down businesses to do that, though. And I think Fauci said it might have escaped from the Wuhan lab, not that it was engineered.

    The value of maximal vaccinations is that it slows and, hopefully, ends the constant mutation of the virus. So long as there are millions of infections

    Thanks, LL. When I said "engineered" I mean that COVID was very likely part of their "gain of function" research. As for it being leaked from their lab, I suspect that it getting out of the lab was pure incompetence. However, China should not be free from responsibility for this global pandemic. They should be held financially responsible for every needless death.

    @NeuM said:

    @audiblevideo said:

    great potential risk and those at greatest risk fall into known high risk groups. Getting and recovering from COVID naturally is still the best case scenario for more than 99% of the population, vaccine or no vaccine. And forcing 99% into vaccine compliance to accommodate 1% is “undemocratic”, to put it charitably.

    100% horsepucky

    This view is antithetical to scientific publications and knowledge. Natural immunity while it exists is not “better” than training your body with vaccines - it’s part and parcel of a effed up “purity culture” that exists to troll, control, and monetize the gullible (thanks to years of bogus nutritional diet bullshit)

    And apparently the OP cares not for the already endangered immunosuppressed like cancer patients etc

    WE ALL IN A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY GIVE UP SOME OF OUR INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES FOR THE SAFETY AND WELL-BEING OF OTHERS

    Ya’ll wanna go Gault… go live in a shack 1000’s of miles from here and quit pretending you have democracy as a concern.

    End Rant

    All indefensible nonsense. Natural immunity is best. If one has serious underlying medical conditions which make natural immunity impossible, get vaccinated. I mean, seriously… What are you waiting for? For everyone else, it’s a choice.

    True. It’s a choice to play the lottery between no Covid, Covid and long Covid.

    As for democracy, it never worked. First it was enforced by a sword, then influenced by gov media and now by the conglomerate of gov and social media. I hope it’s not the best we’ll ever have.

  • @supadom said:
    True. It’s a choice to play the lottery between no Covid, Covid and long Covid.

    You left out "death" :-)

    I guess the other aspect of this is that it might be ok for you to play the lottery with your own health, but it is not when you are playing the lottery with other people's health by possibly infecting them.

    Or to look at it from the other direction: would you want to end up in hospital seriously ill just because someone else couldn't be bothered to take precautions?

  • @Simon said:

    @supadom said:
    True. It’s a choice to play the lottery between no Covid, Covid and long Covid.

    You left out "death" :-)

    I guess the other aspect of this is that it might be ok for you to play the lottery with your own health, but it is not when you are playing the lottery with other people's health by possibly infecting them.

    Or to look at it from the other direction: would you want to end up in hospital seriously ill just because someone else couldn't be bothered to take precautions?

    Yep

  • edited August 2021

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @NeuM said:

    @ervin said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @Simon said:
    "Virologist Eddie Holmes lays out how COVID will likely shape our lives in the years to come":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/virologist-eddie-holmes-covid-scenarios/100399974

    Professor Eddie Holmes was named NSW's Scientist of the Year in 2020 for his work early in the pandemic establishing that SARS-CoV-2 was the cause of COVID-19.

    He was also one of the first people to publicly release the genome sequence of the virus.

    The vaccine cuts the number of hospitalised people by at least half and mortality to about a fifth given comparable figures of the number of cases from the previous wave in the UK. The present number of daily cases isn’t looking good given the percentage of the population vaccinated, especially now we are heading to autumn and winter, when activity involves more indoor mixing.

    As I understand it, the latest data indicates that the likelihood of being hospitalized is reduced by far more than 1/2 compared to those that haven't been vaccinated. Some of the comparisons one sees in the press compare are confusing as they may compare outcomes of people that are infected without taking into account that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see if getting a third shot has a longer lasting impact. There seems to be some indication that might be the case -- but it'll be many many months before if that bears out (and whether or not a nastier than delta variant comes along).

    Besides vaccination, we also need to adjust our behaviors.

    Hopefully, better/cheaper at-home rapid tests will become available.

    Looks like a third ‘booster’ will be rolled out in the UK and I could see a return of social distancing and mask wearing return over the coming months if cases continue rising.

    Mask-wearing and some amount of social distancing should be happening anywhere where there is community transmission. If those aren't happening where you are, it should be.

    One of the reason that Delta has exploded in the U.S. is that as people got vaccinated and infection rates dropped, a lot of localities dropped mask requirements for vaccinated people in indoor spaces not taking into account that this meant unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too. Also, vaccinated people mistakenly believed that they couldn't pass on the virus. The government was in such a rush to defuse political tension over masking that policies were eased too early.

    Hopefully, that mistake won't happen again -- but it might.

    It is worth noting that to date, the places that respond early and strongly to community transmission (like New Zealand) have been able to generally lead much more normal lives than in places where public health people feel like the need to accommodate realities of social resistance to safe measures.

    Ugh! Just saw an update about New Zealand, it seems that there has been no large-scale vaccination and as a result, Delta has taken off. Hopefully, the new lockdown will be brief and effective.

    Just a reminder to us that -- as epidemiologist have been trying to tell us -- successful mitigation is multi-vectored.

    Sure, but for some context - their "outbreak" and "delta takeoff" is still massively better than most other countries' best case dream scenarios 🤷. And they are already talking about easing restrictions because they acted fast (and didn't have to deal with a mass of selfish covidiots).
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-68-new-community-covid-cases-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-caroline-mcelnay/757RQKJFK53TMYYYWIQ34NKIQE/

    A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take.

    That is simply nonsense and not based on fact.

    Many people succeed in not getting diseases against which they have been vaccinated PARTICULARLY if communities at large take appropriate action.

    It depends on many factors.

    Many countries have kept infection rates as exceedingly low.

    It isn't nonsense, a claim you make with great regularity despite evidence to the contrary. The plan from the beginning of the pandemic was to mitigate the spread and the damage done by the spread. There has never, ever been a credible plan to "stop" the spread.

    Your statement here has nothing to do with your claim: "A virus does what a virus does. Everyone there will eventually get COVID, no matter what steps they take."

    There is no science to back up this statement that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps they take.

    There are lots of steps that can be taken to prevent everyone from getting COVID. Many many many many millions of people live in countries where only a small portion of the population have gotten COVID.

    History has also shown us that communities can reduce the spread of communicable viruses through a variety of measures and in some cases (although this now seems unlikely with COVID) essentially eradicate them.

    Show me some credible scientists whose work has been accepted by a broad consensus of their peers making the claim that everyone will get COVID regardless of what is done.

    Oh, boy. The experts have been wrong about this thing time after time after time, but you still demand rock solid proof from them, huh?

    And who is this organization? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

    None of what you posted supports your contention that nothing can be done to prevent everyone from being infected.

    None of it is even relevant.

    Pointing out that scientists have made mistakes is irrelevant.

    None of what you posted speaks to the facts I mentioned about the fact that we often are able to take measures that prevent everyone from contracting a particular virus.

    Rather than post random links about how mitigation efforts are less than perfect (which is normal even in the best cases) or about scientists making mistakes (which by the way is how science works...it is how scientists respond to those errors that is critical...and how science works), how about articulate you your viewpoint and make your case.

    In the real world, flus are with us forever. That’ll be the same with COVID.

    Your statement was that EVERYONE will get COVID no matter what steps are taken. That is completely different from "COVID wont be eradicated".

    p.s. And if it is endemic (which seems likely), it means we still need to take actions (including widespread vaccination and masking and other behavioral changes) to minimize the nimber of people that become infected.

    Yes, EVERYONE will get COVID eventually because it will remain with us, just like the annual flu.

    There’s really nothing left to add to this very basic truth.

    Upfront: it is important to take care and be cautious. This virus is dangerous and we shouldn’t allow it to circulate uncontrollably.

    I heard the same statement from some top German virologists. We will all get in touch with the virus one day. If our immune system is not so strong like young people usually are then the question is if our immune system is prepared for that. The main goal of the vaccination is also not preventing the infection but rather save us from getting seriously ill. Infected or not infected is not as black or white as one might think. It is more like: did the immune system manage to prevent the intruder from reproducing itself so massively that it outnumbers the countermeasures. For most of today‘s kids Covid will very likely be just like a flu as their immune system had been trained.

    I’ve learned about a historic pandemic that might give us an outlook what we can expect. It was called the Russian flu and it circulated in the 1890s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic
    For a long time it was considered to be an influenza virus. In recent years there is more and more evidence that it was not influenza but a coronavirus. The symptoms sound astonishingly similar: high fever and loss of taste and smell. So they tried to find the virus and the outcome was that most probably it was the well-known human coronavirus OC43 which nowadays for us is one of these coronavirus that cause a cold with sneezing and coughing. During the global pandemic it killed about 1 million people, circulated in several waves and after some years the pandemic faded out. Most probably because people became immune and the virus mutated into a less harmful strain. Nowadays the virus still exists, we all had got it in our lifetime. It is a human virus and it did not go away. Exactly that is what virologists mean that we all will get infected with COVID-19 one day.

  • edited August 2021

    I'm in a country that has a public health system but I guess our USA friends who end up in hospital with COVID not only have the physical pain of the illness but also the financial pain as well. I imagine that would be quite expensive? Thousands of dollars? Tens of thousands?

  • @Simon said:
    For those wondering why some people don't get onboard with masks/vax/lockdowns.... it's some of the "information" they read. Tonight I was reading some comments from ONE story on Breitbart (right wing USA web news site).

    You can't make this stuff up:

    • I choose to live with my natural immunity to this sub 1% mortality rate and an unapproved vax that could cause more harm than good. See, I love freedom.

    • The virus has a 5 in 10000 chance of killing you and you can relapse with the vaccine. It's treatable with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. What happened to common sense scared little sheeple?

    • Doctors from around the world are now saying the people that took this experimental vaccine will be dropping dead starting this next flu season.

    • Maybe she should read the article from the E.U. showing nearly 1 million serious side effects and 20 thousand deaths in like 5 months!

    • FREEDOM TO NOT GET THE EXPERIMENT..MOST ANIMALS DIED FROM IT

    • Over the past 2 months at least cases and deaths among vaccinated outpaced those among those smart enough to stay away from the mystery shot. Good luck with your heart inflammation and spike proteins sheeple TWA.

    • Morbidity is higher with the vaxed.

    • It's gene therapy, not a vaccine.

    • The unvaccinated are not dangerous. They have natural antibodies. The vaccinated have graphene oxide in their bodies that suppress natural immunity. The vaccinated also have hiv and aborted fetal cells. When the fall flu season hits then the vaccinated will suffer cytokine storms which will cause strokes, heart failure and many other de adly reactions.
      The cdc, nih, ama, fauchi and gates know these things are true and are using the media, medical community, Hollywood and every means possible to hide the truth. Your only hope is that those medical professionals who have been ostracized will find a remedy to these de adly vaccines.

    • If the vax is so great why are the vaccinated needing hospitalization?

    • Everyone that I personally know that has Covid right now are at home dealing with it and are unvaccinated. The ones I know that are vaccinated had to be admitted to the hospital. My neighbor down the street just got out and she was a vaccinated person. You need to read more and stay away from television! I know quite a few in my church that are home with it and didn't get vaccinated. I haven't taken that shot and haven been are Covid positive people and have yet to get sick. There's just no fixing stupid!

    • Covid has a survival rate of 99.75+% in people under 70. Hardly a "death sentence."

    • No doubt the virus can be deadly. However, a significant portion were those 80+ suffering from serious other conditions including cancer, Alzheimer's, emphysema, heart disease, etc. We upended society to buy those at the end of life perhaps a few more months or a year. Good idea?

    • The only thing that this vaccine does that's a proven fact so far is that it makes big pharma big money.

    • The Government is violating the Nuremberg Code by implementing forced vaccinations.

    • The FDA is supposed to be approving the Pfizer Covid vaccine tomorrow. It has only a 39% efficacy when approved vaccines are supposed to show at least 50%. It also has caused much bodily injury and death. It is unconscionable that they will get away with it.

    • Uh...population control...they think our population is "unsustainable" so they're taking out those who get the vaccine. The unvaccinated will inherit the Earth.

    • had a sister in law ( had is the key word ) and I'm pissed ... healthy as anybody, got that F'n poke 3 weeks ago ... week later in the hospital .. 3 days later in ICU ... 4 days later 8/19 passed away .... Huntsville Alabama ..... any SOB that makes demands for that F'n poke needs to be pushing up daisies .......

    • A neighbor received the vaxxxx….twice…became extremely sick…couldn’t move for a week both times……. I’m beginning to believe that these vaccines…..IS COVID-19(flu) …and those that receive the vax, are the SUPER SPREADERS……

    • Because its about getting the vax passport number . Nothing to do with a virus .

    • One report said 45,000 vaccine deaths. That was someone in the business of compiling medical statistics. It’s being intentionally covered up.

    • Pfizer vaccine destroys T cells, weakens the immune system

    • Ok have we all come to the realization that Covid is nothing but a glorified flu, lockdowns and masks aren't pur strategy come flu season, are they? So why are they in this case?.When are people gonna stop playing along with the "Covid is dangerous" game. SICK TO DEATH OF IT. Newsom was the hysterical spearhead for the lying disinformation about this illness. "Pandemic" does not mean PLAGUE. Plagues are seriously deadly, pandemics are just very contagious. This is no deadly plague. Covid is a lightweight disease, it has a comparable death rate to the cmmon flu and that fact is always obscured if not downright buried. I'm sick of the way too complacent attitude I see in Americans who won't stand up and call out the lies spread about this illness and refuse to be bullied into vaccines or masks. Where is our fighting spirit? Could we even win a WWII anymore? WHERE IS IT?? Too many people are lazy 'go along to get alongs'. Disgraceful.

    • The vaccinated are becoming modern day lepers, they are dying from simple colds and flues and populating the hospitals with righteous indignation for the unvaccinated.

    • We're talking about a "vaccine" here..... that has resulted in immediate miscarriages. Not the entire medical field of women issues. You're not ever going to get Polio.... because you've been vaccinated. The covid jab is not a vaccine. Vaccinated people are gettin covid , get very ill and some are dying.

    • Of the 6,985 deaths reported as of June 25, 22% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 15% occurred within 24 hours and 38% occurred in people who became ill within 48 hours of being vaccinated.

    • Reverend Jesse Jackson and his wife , both "vaccinated", now very ill and hospitalized with covid. Melissa Joan hart "vaccinated", now very sick with covid recovering at home. Just to name some famous "axed"people it doesn't work. It's not a vaccine.

    • The vaccinated are getting sick at a higher rate and are shedding virus at a rate orders of magnitude beyond the unvaccinated. The vaccinated should be marked for public safety.

    This is just a small sample....

    +1

  • @ecstaticax said:

    @Simon said:
    For those wondering why some people don't get onboard with masks/vax/lockdowns.... it's some of the "information" they read. Tonight I was reading some comments from ONE story on Breitbart (right wing USA web news site).

    You can't make this stuff up:

    • I choose to live with my natural immunity to this sub 1% mortality rate and an unapproved vax that could cause more harm than good. See, I love freedom.

    • The virus has a 5 in 10000 chance of killing you and you can relapse with the vaccine. It's treatable with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. What happened to common sense scared little sheeple?

    • Doctors from around the world are now saying the people that took this experimental vaccine will be dropping dead starting this next flu season.

    • Maybe she should read the article from the E.U. showing nearly 1 million serious side effects and 20 thousand deaths in like 5 months!

    • FREEDOM TO NOT GET THE EXPERIMENT..MOST ANIMALS DIED FROM IT

    • Over the past 2 months at least cases and deaths among vaccinated outpaced those among those smart enough to stay away from the mystery shot. Good luck with your heart inflammation and spike proteins sheeple TWA.

    • Morbidity is higher with the vaxed.

    • It's gene therapy, not a vaccine.

    • The unvaccinated are not dangerous. They have natural antibodies. The vaccinated have graphene oxide in their bodies that suppress natural immunity. The vaccinated also have hiv and aborted fetal cells. When the fall flu season hits then the vaccinated will suffer cytokine storms which will cause strokes, heart failure and many other de adly reactions.
      The cdc, nih, ama, fauchi and gates know these things are true and are using the media, medical community, Hollywood and every means possible to hide the truth. Your only hope is that those medical professionals who have been ostracized will find a remedy to these de adly vaccines.

    • If the vax is so great why are the vaccinated needing hospitalization?

    • Everyone that I personally know that has Covid right now are at home dealing with it and are unvaccinated. The ones I know that are vaccinated had to be admitted to the hospital. My neighbor down the street just got out and she was a vaccinated person. You need to read more and stay away from television! I know quite a few in my church that are home with it and didn't get vaccinated. I haven't taken that shot and haven been are Covid positive people and have yet to get sick. There's just no fixing stupid!

    • Covid has a survival rate of 99.75+% in people under 70. Hardly a "death sentence."

    • No doubt the virus can be deadly. However, a significant portion were those 80+ suffering from serious other conditions including cancer, Alzheimer's, emphysema, heart disease, etc. We upended society to buy those at the end of life perhaps a few more months or a year. Good idea?

    • The only thing that this vaccine does that's a proven fact so far is that it makes big pharma big money.

    • The Government is violating the Nuremberg Code by implementing forced vaccinations.

    • The FDA is supposed to be approving the Pfizer Covid vaccine tomorrow. It has only a 39% efficacy when approved vaccines are supposed to show at least 50%. It also has caused much bodily injury and death. It is unconscionable that they will get away with it.

    • Uh...population control...they think our population is "unsustainable" so they're taking out those who get the vaccine. The unvaccinated will inherit the Earth.

    • had a sister in law ( had is the key word ) and I'm pissed ... healthy as anybody, got that F'n poke 3 weeks ago ... week later in the hospital .. 3 days later in ICU ... 4 days later 8/19 passed away .... Huntsville Alabama ..... any SOB that makes demands for that F'n poke needs to be pushing up daisies .......

    • A neighbor received the vaxxxx….twice…became extremely sick…couldn’t move for a week both times……. I’m beginning to believe that these vaccines…..IS COVID-19(flu) …and those that receive the vax, are the SUPER SPREADERS……

    • Because its about getting the vax passport number . Nothing to do with a virus .

    • One report said 45,000 vaccine deaths. That was someone in the business of compiling medical statistics. It’s being intentionally covered up.

    • Pfizer vaccine destroys T cells, weakens the immune system

    • Ok have we all come to the realization that Covid is nothing but a glorified flu, lockdowns and masks aren't pur strategy come flu season, are they? So why are they in this case?.When are people gonna stop playing along with the "Covid is dangerous" game. SICK TO DEATH OF IT. Newsom was the hysterical spearhead for the lying disinformation about this illness. "Pandemic" does not mean PLAGUE. Plagues are seriously deadly, pandemics are just very contagious. This is no deadly plague. Covid is a lightweight disease, it has a comparable death rate to the cmmon flu and that fact is always obscured if not downright buried. I'm sick of the way too complacent attitude I see in Americans who won't stand up and call out the lies spread about this illness and refuse to be bullied into vaccines or masks. Where is our fighting spirit? Could we even win a WWII anymore? WHERE IS IT?? Too many people are lazy 'go along to get alongs'. Disgraceful.

    • The vaccinated are becoming modern day lepers, they are dying from simple colds and flues and populating the hospitals with righteous indignation for the unvaccinated.

    • We're talking about a "vaccine" here..... that has resulted in immediate miscarriages. Not the entire medical field of women issues. You're not ever going to get Polio.... because you've been vaccinated. The covid jab is not a vaccine. Vaccinated people are gettin covid , get very ill and some are dying.

    • Of the 6,985 deaths reported as of June 25, 22% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 15% occurred within 24 hours and 38% occurred in people who became ill within 48 hours of being vaccinated.

    • Reverend Jesse Jackson and his wife , both "vaccinated", now very ill and hospitalized with covid. Melissa Joan hart "vaccinated", now very sick with covid recovering at home. Just to name some famous "axed"people it doesn't work. It's not a vaccine.

    • The vaccinated are getting sick at a higher rate and are shedding virus at a rate orders of magnitude beyond the unvaccinated. The vaccinated should be marked for public safety.

    This is just a small sample....

    +1

    Somebody could make a fortune if this was printed on toilet tissue, for their bunkers.

  • edited August 2021

    @supadom said:

    @Simon said:

    @supadom said:
    True. It’s a choice to play the lottery between no Covid, Covid and long Covid.

    You left out "death" :-)

    I guess the other aspect of this is that it might be ok for you to play the lottery with your own health, but it is not when you are playing the lottery with other people's health by possibly infecting them.

    Or to look at it from the other direction: would you want to end up in hospital seriously ill just because someone else couldn't be bothered to take precautions?

    Yep

    I see you responded to a ridiculous comment which still needs to be refuted.

    Vaccinated people can still get COVID. Vaccinated people can still transmit COVID to others. These are documented facts.

    Given those two facts, it is the sole responsibility of those at-risk and their families to get vaccinated and to take whatever measures are appropriate to their situation.

    An unvaccinated person has no greater chance of spreading COVID than a vaccinated person. They are both potential spreaders. Saying otherwise is just an uninformed position of propaganda.

This discussion has been closed.