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The Nightmare that is a Reality
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Vaccination is not just, or even primarily, about the risk to one's self. You get vaccinated so that you help protect your community BOTH by not being able to spread it if you become infected and by reducing the opportunities for the virus to mutate. Larger numbers of people become infected means more mutations some of which, we now know, will be more infectious and deadlier.
People who choose not to become vaccinated put everyone at risk. Both because they can spread it (often not knowing they are infected) and because they are giving it an opportunity to mutate.
The notion that COVID represents a serious risk to only 0.05% of the population does not sound correct. That is the estimated IFR for 17 to 49 year-olds. For, the next age bracket is it is more 10 times that number. Also, those are stats gathered from the strains dominant up to a few months ago. The IFR of the strains becoming more dominant is probably higher.
0.05% of the U.S. population is only 164,000. Over 600,000 people have already died.
Not to mention, a considerable number of people experience long-lasting illness which causes both misery and economic damage -- and some people are experiencing health problems likely to result in shortened lifespans.
To think only in terms of one's personal risk of death is selfish. The U.S. has suffered a lot more than countries where people chose to be less selfish -- taking action to reduce risk to their communities.
@espiegel123, those who are at risk have already voluntarily been vaccinated (I can only speak in terms of the US). Everyone who wanted to get vaccinated was vaccinated.
Here’s the latest data I could find:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths
(Apparently uploads of images are not allowed for this thread.)
Plenty of unvaccinated people are at risk. Unvaccinated people that become infected: increase the likelihood of new more dangerous mutations, can pass the disease on to people who can't be vaccinated (or haven't been vaccinated because they are ignorant that their choice is keeping the pandemic alive.
People choosing not to be vaccinated are choosing to put others at risk. They are also making the choice to keep the virus alive and well.
FWIW, and just amongst our little AB family, I know Pierre [Kory] from way back (as a human and friend, not as a doctor
) and he is bright, funny and honest.
Really?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-13/apple-s-u-s-stores-offices-to-start-dropping-mask-requirement
Apple dropping the mask requirement for vaccinated people in its stores isn't disputative of any of the points I made.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19byageband
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/ukcovid19deathsbyagewithnounderlyingconditions
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020
An interesting take on who wanted to get vaccinated in these stats (a whole thread is there, with numerous other states) :
Here are the top 4 US States by COVID deaths, with state majority political party affiliation noted.
(D) CA population 39,613,493
Deaths 63,216
(D) NY population 19,299,981
Deaths 53,505
(R) Texas population 29,145,505
Deaths 51,846
(R) Florida population 21,944,577
Deaths 36,973
The takeaway? States which mandated masks and had more vaccinations made out almost the same as states with no mask mandate and had fewer vaccinations.
You really have made this political. Listing the total deaths as a means of comparison is misleading. You need to compare per capita. California is nowhere near the top in per capita deaths...it also has a sizable portion of the population that refused to do things like wear masks despite the mask mandate.
In any case, none of that addresses the issues raised earlier. You seem intent on making political points and distracting from the public health issues I raised.
?? The four months in the U.S. following Trump's loss were the deadliest of the entire pandemic:
https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-daily-deaths
@hes, sorry, bud. That was a sarcastic joke.
If the reasons for the former President’s loss are to be held consistent with the ‘popular’ arguments to replace him, then the new guy was responsible for those deaths, not him.
Competitors always attack the incumbent and claim their administration will fix things, because the person in charge is doing a terrible job. But when the new administration steps in, they usually blame the prior administration for as long as they possibly can and take no responsibility.
The post I responded to was political. Did you read it?
??
Trump was president for 2-1/2 of those months (the election was in early November). Your argument that Biden should be held responsible for all deaths starting the day he was inaugurated isn't sensible. The way that epidemics work, you can't change the spread over night.
Joe Biden immediately took credit for the vaccinations as soon as he got into office. He claimed the prior administration gave them nothing to work with. Consequently, even Dr. Fauci dismissed Biden’s outrageous statement.
So if Biden wants the full credit, he also gets the full blame.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/02/bidens-misleading-vaccine-boasts/
@NeuM, what, exactly, is disturbing you here? IMO, Trump did a terrible job with the rollout. As per usual, he made promises he did not keep. Biden, OTOH, under promised and over performed. Also, the most effective vaccine, Pfizer’s , was not funded by Warpspeed. Somehow vaccinations took off after Biden took office. Do you think that would have happened with T at the helm?
I’m sorry, but that’s just factually incorrect. Compare what his critics say now, versus what they said before. He was absolutely responsible for cutting the red tape and regulations which would’ve slowed the rollout of vaccines by 6-12 months.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/492324-california-governor-praises-trumps-efforts-to-help-state-amid
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/california-gov-gavin-newsom-denies-report-that-he-had-to-personally-ask-and-thank-trump-in-order-to-receive-covid-19-assistance/ar-BB16VBez
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fauci-praises-trump-for-operation-warp-speed-claims-hes-never-been-sharply-critical-of-former-presidents-administration/ar-AAKFA0k
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/he-has-delivered-for-new-york-cuomo-praises-trumps-coronavirus-response/2371465/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/health/pfizer-vaccine-purchase-100-million-doses/index.html
And this is just a tiny sample of the reporting which lavished praise on his administration’s response. Remember, this was going into a looming election, so the accusations from partisan critics were strategic.
@Neum, it is correct that the Pfizer vaccine was independently developed without Warpspeed. Your first two articles seems irrelevant. Newson’s thanks or not for a hospital ship, so what?
Here is the BBC’s assessment of Trump’s performance and how Biden planned to correct it,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55721437
As far as red tape and the FDA, remember Trump used the same tactics to try to approve hydroxychloroquine. If it were up to him bleach and light would have been approved as well. But again, it is irrelevant because whatever barriers Trump may have lowered, he had no plan to put the vaccine in people’s arms.
The vaccines developed rapidly because much of the foundational research had been laid down. Vaccine development of two years was based on an old paradigm.
I my opinion, the treatment of viruses and bacteria diseases is based on a wrong foundation. It is based on the Germ Theory. There was also another Therory, the Terrain Theory.
The Germ Theory is based on the assumption that Bacteria are transmittable.
The Terrain Theory is based on the assumption that Bacteria eat dead material, caused by poisoning of the body.
Louis Pasteur studied the Germ Theory. He tried to prove that this Theory is right.
He made personal notes in his notebook, that he always kept with him, and told his family that it never should be published after his death. A heir member did it anyways. Pasteur could not prove his theory and admitted that the Terrain Theory was the right one. He even tricked public demonstrations. He isolated the "disease causing" bacteria and gave them to animals and people, but poisoned it with arsenicum and mercury.
Rockefeller funded the research of Pasteur. He also funded the production of petroleum based drugs (he was an oil-mogul), and declined natural healing.
We are poisoning our body every day with processed food, drugs and also important, stress. We are getting sick, getting chronic diseases, and getting drugs to heal this, with side-effects, without knowing what's the actual cause, because there are so many processes going on in your body, all affecting each other.
Instead of focusing the cause, we are getting treated. "Oh, you have a headache? Take a painkiller", instead of: "Where would my headache come from?"
We are a product of nature. Drugs based on petroleum is unnatural, so we are unbalanced with nature. Thats what my guts tells me.
dude, what is up with this thread? it sucks.
probably about time to sink it.
Regarding the Pfizer vaccine being independently developed and allegedly with no incentive or involvement with Operation Warpspeed: That’s just false. Operation Warpspeed reduced red tape. So no matter who developed a vaccine first, it would be rapidly tested and purchased by the US government for distribution, which is exactly what happened. (From the NY Times: “In July, Pfizer got a $1.95 billion deal with the government’s Operation Warp Speed, the multiagency effort to rush a vaccine to market, to deliver 100 million doses of the vaccine. The arrangement is an advance-purchase agreement, meaning that the company won’t get paid until they deliver the vaccines. Pfizer did not accept federal funding to help develop or manufacture the vaccine, unlike front-runners Moderna and AstraZeneca.” Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/health/was-the-pfizer-vaccine-part-of-the-governments-operation-warp-speed.html
Regarding hydroxychloriquine (and this was always the case, however it was dismissed by partisans to make the President look bad until it no longer mattered):
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-helped-coronavirus-patients-survive-better/ar-BB16hifu
Regarding Biden’s COVID claims: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/02/bidens-misleading-vaccine-boasts/
Regarding the media created phony “bleach comment”:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/ …Here’s his original quote, which was referencing (at the time) both active research and tools used in the medical field involving disinfecting light. The quote: "A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
And here is exactly what was being referenced: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/26/pharmaceutical-firm-aytu-bioscience-testing-uv-lig/?fbclid=IwAR1VFfHSOYIEwgL7gkoJ1wefu7zg2Sga-2Z3ywaD2MaU9hgPtME2x63hAGw
Regarding the widely held belief that a vaccine would not be available for up to two years. Well, even Joe Biden was saying that. Joe Biden: “Even if we get a vaccine, it will not be available for most of the population until well into 2021." https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/sep/17/fact-checking-joe-biden-coronavirus-vaccine/
So, basically everything you’ve mentioned on these points was wrong, but this is not uncommon. People were repeatedly given false information from the media for four years.
@NeuM, I guess you don’t want me to trust my lyin’ eyes and ears. Here’s the last thing I will say here. You don’t have to vilify a guy who is so busy vilifying himself. Keep up the music making.🙏
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
But he was just talking about the light, and not at all about injecting disinfectant, and he was also referring to this super-obscure proposal I just found on google.
You don’t think the President of the US is informed about active research on a virus during a pandemic? To quote Joe Biden, “Come on, man.”
Also, are you claiming that either MSN, Politifact or the Washington Times are “super-obscure” sources?
Here’s to the music! 👍
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/
That's right, the guy's a genius.