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The Nightmare that is a Reality
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My workplace is going back to ftf meetings. On Friday there will be several hundred of us all in the same room for six hours to listen to admin give speeches. We have a vax mandate, so thanks for that, but still...why are we doing this? Online meetings were so much better. Feeling very frustrated and angry about risking a breakthrough case just to give these clowns a captive audience of warm bodies to hear them blather on about nothing. It reminds me of Obama’s birthday party in that we’re externalizing unnecessary risk onto the community for the ego gratification of the elect. Online meetings and wfh were so much more efficient. I almost miss last year just for that.
Ouch. Cramming hundreds of people into a room now, with all we've been through, in order to force them to listen to bloody speeches is probably all about the huge but fragile egos of the makers of those speeches, I'm afraid. 🤷
Everything should be fine. If that massively attended birthday with almost no one following their own rules didn’t harm anyone, what real level of risk could a bunch of fully vaccinated people face at a business?
@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr, you are making perfect sense, IMO. I disagree with our respected colleague @NeuM. Last numbers I heard were that the vaccines were about 67% effective against Delta. Also, the immunity apparently deteriorates over time hence the boosters being made available in the US. So your 600 attendees have a 1 in 3 chance of contracting it if contact is made. asymptotically, perhaps, but still
really infectious to take home to the kiddies. Bah. The Age of Idiocy is well upon us now. Have you heard about the Delta+ variant?
Now let’s talk about Afghanistan to take our minds off Covid,
We’re not going to die, because we’re vaxxed and healthy enough to work. I’m more concerned about us spreading the virus out into the world, onto people more vulnerable than we are. If someone dies from our spreader event we may never even know about it.
Plus having to listen to top management speechify is the worst part of the job. That could be skewing my perspective.
That’s the part that bothers me. We’re mostly safe, but the stupid things we do could kill someone else. But the attitude seems to be that so long as we don’t know them, it’s okay if they die. We’re not to blame because we’re two nodes down the transmission network and don’t know about it. That attitude often goes with blaming the victims for their own illness, as if I myself have never made a bad decision that led to a self-destructive outcome. Everyone’s done that at some point in their lives.
Having just read this entire discussion today, I can't see that the present situation backs up the OP and adherents. ICU beds in short supply all across my region. The tripwire telltale for me personally, they are starting to rent refrigerated trucks for storing the extra bodies that can't be handled by the morgues and funeral homes.
And as far as stats go, the All Death numbers tell the tale.
LL, If you endorse those quoted statistics, how might you characterize the "unmasked ball" (the gigantic birthday party) attended by possibly hundreds of maskless individuals?
As stupidity at the highest levels. It is a profound disappointment to realize at this late stage of my life that we are led by narcissistic idiots. Of course, I was completely apolitical until Trump was elected, so, other than an innate disparagement of human nature in general, I didn’t think much about it.
In the words of Dan Rather:
Wear a mask. Get a shot. Might need a booster. Grave sacrifices to personal freedom? Really??? It’s not as if we’re asking you to storm the beaches at Normandy. It's the bare minimum to help save your life and maybe the lives of others - including children. Smdh.
Really don’t understand the hesitation for such a small inconvenience - and the vaccines are f*cking free
My theory:
The anti-mask anti-vaccine movement is a stand-in a cut-out for AUTHORITARIAN endorsed TERRORISM
See also “pro-life” movement
See also pizza-gate
The propaganda behind these movements is designed to create fear and engender a response to that fear — violence
The vaccines don’t stop the spread, which means they will continue to mutate…endemic.
What is this maskless ball of which you speak? Certainly, you aren't speaking of an event attended only by fully-vaccinated people who had all were COVID negative> @knewspeak said:
"vaccines don't stop the spread" is a misleading statement. It implies something that isn't true.
While it is true that if you are vaccinated AND become infected that it is possible for you to infect someone else. This is true of all vaccines...even those like the smallpox and polio vaccines that have more or less eliminated those diseases.
Vaccines (including the COVID vaccines) dramatically reduce spreading by making it MUCH less likely that someone will become infected in the first place. Additionally, if you do become infected while vaccinated, you are infectious for reduced period of time.
So, vaccinated people are much less likely to spread the disease when there is a large pool of infected people. And if everyone were vaccinated, the virus would spread much less than if everyone were vaccinated.
What I stated is perfectly true, nothing misleading. You then go on to agree. Vaccination will save lives, but won’t stop the virus spreading nor mutating, infant could cause them to mutate in more deadlier resilient forms, this is the risk. The genetic arms race.
Vaccination reduces spreading dramatically. Your statement implies otherwise.
Reducing spread (which vaccination does when widely adopted) also reduces mutations.
Will vaccination by itself eliminate the disease entirely, no. Global vaccination will dramatically reduce emergence of new mutations.
Don’t think it is panning out like that in Israel, do you.
I hate to break it to you, but the party out of power always engages in political tactics based on fear and outrage. Democrats did it for 4 years with Trump, Republicans did it for 4 years with Obama, and on it goes.
Trump did it 4 years with Trump. He thought the virus would just…..go…..away.
The vaccines are not a cure. They are a therapy to reduce the recovery time after contracting COVID. Both unvaccinated and vaccinated can carry and transmit COVID according to the latest body of knowledge. And you can get COVID whether you’ve been vaccinated or not.
On the upside, only about 1% of the population is at great potential risk and those at greatest risk fall into known high risk groups. Getting and recovering from COVID naturally is still the best case scenario for more than 99% of the population, vaccine or no vaccine. And forcing 99% into vaccine compliance to accommodate 1% is “undemocratic”, to put it charitably.
And Joe Biden said Afghanistan wouldn’t fall to the Taliban overnight after being occupied by the US military for 20 years.
Yes unfortunately democracy has a tendency to increase compassion towards one another, other systems of governance don’t.
“Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes exhausts and murders itself. There never was a Democracy Yet, that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to Say that Democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious or less avaricious than Aristocracy or Monarchy. It is not true in Fact and no where appears in history.”
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-02-02-6371
Vaccines reduce the likelihood of infection and drastically reduce the odds of serious illness.
"natural immunity" provides less robust immunity than the COVID vaccines.
You are also completely off-base when you say only 1% is at great potential risk.
It needs to be added death is not the only bad outcome.
This notion that forcing vaccination is "undemocratic" flies in the face of history. Smallpox eliminated and polio largely so via vaccination mandates.
Really? Where did these numbers come from?
Democracies by nature allow for change, even if this may be the illusion of change, democracy isn’t perfect, but it’s certainly better than aristocracies, monarchies or dictatorships of ideals or religion.
That might have been the thinking in 1814 (well, one man's thinking) but things have probably changed a bit since then.
The future is not written. Where democracy goes is up to us, not Mr. Adams.
If you’re talking about “worldwide” statistics, the number is slightly higher. Around 2%. In the US, it’s about 1%.
Source: https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
The founders of the US had the benefit of being very well educated, which is sadly not the case today. In their review of the great span of history, they saw clearly that human nature (that is to say “self-interest”) has remained THE constant. And the US is not a democracy. It is a democratic representative republic.
That data does not say or imply that "only" 1% are AT RISK.
also, it can't be said often enough, if the only statistic you pay attention to is mortality, you are way underestimating the impact of this disease.
Regardless of how well educated the Founders may have been (albeit by 1814 standards), the fact remains that the future of democracy is up to us. But "self interest" is a good horse to put money on, both today and in 1814. I'm not well educated and even I could have told you that :-)
And I refer to democracy in the general sense - I'm not in the USA.