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The Nightmare that is a Reality
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That’s funny, but it also fails to mention deliberate misreporting (there are 4+ years of examples of openly hostile and fraudulent reporting) for partisan reasons.
And since you do not hesitate to post partisan propaganda supporting your positions, I offer you this: https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2019/08/06/america-is-drowning-in-the-lefts-lies-about-trump-n2551237
There is a lot of distracting and non-sequitur responses that are irrelevant to the question of what is good public health policy and how can we end the pandemic.
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Hmm… https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/joe_biden_animal_vegetable_or_mineral.html
Hmm again:
If only it were possible to have such a debate in good faith...
To end the pandemic: Don't fight it, live with it, it's a battle you can't win, like the flu.
Or die from it…
We fight the flu. The flu is also less dangerous. We have reduced many diseases that were major causes or mortality to mere nuisances by using modern medical practices. Perhaps, you are too young to have parents that had to worry when growing up about the possibility of dying or being permanently impaired as the result of diseases like smallpox and polio that many people don't think about.
Polio and Smallpox has 1 variant, so can be effectively treated. It's 1 vaccin for the rest of your life. Covid and Flu has many variants and is constantly changing. It can't be treated. The covid vaccin was created in half a year? In that timespan new variants will show up. I'd rather build resistance the natural way, then getting a shot every half year with build up of toxins and chemicals in my body.
And, I'm 54 and my mother is 84
There is no natural way to get immunity to covid or the flu except for contracting them. The death toll from the flu has gone down hugely in the age of vaccination. Vaccination is dramatically reducing the death toll and hospitalization incidence from COVID.
The more cases of COVID we allow, the more infectious the variants that become dominant.
LOL. Are opposing opinions backed up with facts “non-sequiturs”?
You’re about half right on this point. It’s not about winning, it’s about minimizing deaths, however what most people forgot about was the incredible economic destruction to the vast majority of people who were never at risk. Of course, eventually most people will get either natural immunity from COVID-19 itself or a variant or they’ll get a vaccine. Remember when the “experts” first said the best way to beat a pandemic was “herd immunity”? They were right the first time. No one wins when workers at every imaginable level and economies worldwide are plunged into inactivity.
None of your posts addressed the issues. If they did, I am unable to see the connection and would appreciate you elucidating the connection. For instance, how do any of them relate to the importance of society acting to reduce the number of infections in order to reduce likelihood of more dangerous or more infectious variants and how vaccination plays into that even if you aren't at high risk of dying.
The word “none” is really doing a lot of work in that post. I believe the meme response to that hyperbole would be (insert meme here) “That’s not how any of this works”.
For starters, the individual is more important than the diktat of “society” except where authoritarians are concerned.
Second, the most at-risk (remember, this is a US response) have already either died or been vaccinated. Remember that word “most at risk”.
Flu is a combination of Corona and Influenza A, B, C. Covid vaccination is ment to treat Covid 19, not Influenza. I doubt if influenza has vanished. I wonder how many cases of influenza still exist, if they test influenza alongside covid. Corona is a seasonal flu. In the summertime you see less cases, just like last summer. I bet corona will show up next winter. Time will tell.
If it's true that Covid 19 originates from a lab (an enhanced version of Corona), the fatality rate is higher. In time, Covid 19 mutates, and every mutation is a weaker variant of the original, not stronger.
I think you misunderstood what I was intending to convey. I was not saying that covid is the flu normthat the flu has been eliminated. I said mortality due to the flu has been dramatically improved via flu vaccination. Similarly, covid vaccination has dramatically reduced mortality and hospitalization due to covid.
All true.
Please Kill this thread, the fucknuts have gone wild and are now infecting each other with mutating dis/mis information 🥴
Ah yes, i'm sorry that i misunderstood it. I also make an end to the discussion if i may. I like to discuss, but since we are on a forum about music-making, and i think the heat of such a debate like corona isn't doing any good for the atmosphere. I respect your opinion, and to be honest, i shouldn't start a discussion here. I know i make people upset with what i said, especially the one's that has witnessed Covid up-close.
Haha, you're right Krupa. I have closed my case.
As far as I know, off topic discussions are OK as long as there’s no personal attacks. As long as civility reigns, opinions should be no problem. I know several people who died from COVID or due to having COVID aggravate existing conditions. It’s a touchy subject, but it’s very clear that politicians are incapable of making the right decisions about getting people back to work and their regular lives. People have to demand it.
Yes, i know. Politics is another level for discussion in my country also. Also, discussing in a non-native language could get a bit tricky, because i don’t pick up slight nuances in word usage, so a good will joke could turn in an offence, and a quick response is difficult, because i have to translate in my head and sometimes use a dictionary to choose the right words.
At least, this discussion demonstrates another non-political issue we've been facing since press was invented:
Lack of information by presenting only parts of a story.
If only.
I just found this Matt Tiabbi piece. It mentions Dr Pierre Kory from the Frontline Covid Critical Care Alliance, plus Other doctors from the UK and elsewhere
"...One of the challenges of the pandemic period is the degree to which science has become intertwined with politics. Arguments about the efficacy of mask use or ventilators, or the viability of repurposed drugs like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, or even the pandemic’s origins, were quashed from the jump in the American commercial press, which committed itself to a regime of simplified insta-takes made opposite to Donald Trump’s comments. With a few exceptions, Internet censors generally tracked with this conventional wisdom, which had the effect of moving conspiracy theories and real scientific debates alike far underground..."
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/why-has-ivermectin-become-a-dirty
Another interesting voice I recently heard is British Doctor John Campbell, He's an older guy, very sensible and sober, and has had a YouTube channel about medicine since 2007, with nearly 1,000,000 subscribers. He talks in this video about the upcoming vaccine Novavax, and an Ivermectin Study, plus the baffling silence surrounding this drug.
Taibbi is hardly an objective observer of "the media". He has an axe to grind because of how his career went off the tracks. The quote you provide suggests the press wasn't fair to hydrochloroquine....which was shown to be ineffective.
These articles about ivermectin as a miracle cure seem to owe a lot of debt to a misleading set of graphs published by Gateway Pundit that misrepresent the data. The people claiming ivermectin is largely responsible for Indias rapid improvement in early May, don't mention the strict social distancing and masking regulations that went into effect about two weeks prior to the downturn or the ramping up of vaccination.
the graph also attributes the downturn to ivermectin based on the government saying that ivermectin could legally be prescribed without actually any data about its actual use.
John Campbell isn’t a medical doctor, by the way, but a Phd. He does seem to be a very experienced nurse (and Youtube influencer).
Re Hydrochloroqine, my understanding is that some of the trials were with late stage patients, where it wasn't effective. Here's a paper from Nov last year titled "Hydroxychloroquine is effective, and consistently so when provided early, for COVID-19: a systematic review" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7534595/
I'd never heard of Gateway Pundit, I googled it and yes that sounds like something I'd be suspicious of.
At this point I'd like to mention something I have to try to enable in myself, and I think we all should.
When we are confronted with information that is contrary to worldview, we tend to look for the minimum amount of evidence required to dismiss it. if it is in concordance with our worldview we require the maximum amount of evidence to even entertain it.
So with Gateway Pundit, I'd say it's likely they would be in opposition to the current narrative, they are on the right, so that's enough evidence for some to dismiss. But then you'd also then have to dismiss the evidence from Dr Kory, who has described himself as a liberal, and who was trying different combinations of drugs right at the very outset of the pandemic, who is a leader in his field, who has contributed to the current treatment protocols, and I don't find him easily dismissable.
But I will take a look at that Gateway thing, and try to find whether they were creating misleading info, or quoting existing medical info that happened to align with their aims.
Re the graphs, there were other Indian states that didn't use ivermectin, and their rates didn't drop. I've seen those graphs, and I'm trusting somewhat in the people that presented them being honest players, based on few years of content watching and listening to them (I'm talking the Darkhorse podcast here (again self-confessed progressives), plus their guests). Given fauci and particularly Kristian G. Andersen's statements and actions over the past few months, I don't find some of those on the establishment side implicitly trustworthy.
I'm glad to have a good-faith conversation about this, I have no wish to promote inaccuracies in this terrible situation we find ourselves in.
True. I initially thought he was a Medical doctor. He was a nursing professor or whatever the right term is. Shame about the thumbnail of the video I posted, he looks quite manic.
@espiegel123 I tracked down the Gateway reference. They reposted a piece from 'the covid blog'. The covid blog's data is from the FLCCC, the organisation of doctors who were working to establish treatment protocols right at the beginning. So I take the fact that they glommed on to it and promoted it in sensationalist style as irrelevant to the issue of whether Ivermectin works or not.
I also found a fact check on the piece by politifact, that really needs fact checking itself. Their conclusion was that the story was 'mostly false', using some circular reasoning. Because we don't know if the drugs worked, because we don't know if they work. Brilliant.
"Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are being widely used in India for COVID-19, according to news reports. But there is no evidence they led to the recent decline in confirmed cases, given the lack of clear scientific evidence that they are effective at all in prevention or treatment."
Faith based medicine.....
“But the truth is that the science remains far from clear cut, even for influenza vaccines that have been used for decades. Although randomised trials have shown an effect in reducing the risk of symptomatic influenza, such trials have never been conducted in elderly people living in the community to see whether they save lives.
Only two placebo controlled trials in this population have ever been conducted, and neither was designed to detect any difference in hospital admissions or deaths.23 Moreover, dramatic increases in use of influenza vaccines has not been associated with a decline in mortality.”
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037
systemic problems, rarely referenced ...
“ The National Vaccine Information Center maintains that there is an inherent conflict of interest in allowing the same health officials in federal agencies responsible for researching, developing, regulating, making national policy for and promoting vaccines to also be in control of monitoring vaccine reactions and evaluating health problems associated with vaccines. There is a similar conflict of interest in relying solely on scientific data supplied by drug companies, who make and sell vaccines for a profit, to license vaccines safe for use by the public without corroborating independent scientific data about the vaccine's safety.
"Health officials in federal agencies have no accountability to anyone when it comes to setting priorities for how our tax dollars are used when it comes to vaccine research," said NVIC president and co-founder Barbara Loe Fisher. "They can choose to do whatever they want to do with the money they get from Congress. And they choose to ignore the mounting evidence that vaccines are playing a role in the current epidemic of chronic disease, such as diabetes, in our society. Instead, our tax money is used to create more vaccines to add to the mandatory vaccination schedule for our children. There have never been and there are no plans to fund large independent studies to back-up the scientific validity of the government's current vaccine policies and independently confirm they are safe."
https://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Diabetes/juvenilediabetes.aspx