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Comments
@onerez
I’m a big advocate for mental health awareness, and erasing the stigma that past generations tended to put on mental health issues. In the past it was either stigmatized or brushed off as a weird quirk or something. we obviously now know that these are real diseases that can be treated. The brain is the most important part of your body, if your stomach hurt for awhile you’d go to a doc, it should be no different for the brain.
Just know that you are not alone, and it’s ok to get help. In general It’s hard to explain to the average person, and no one around you seems to understand. I would 100% seek professional care, and get a professional diagnosis. Talk therapy has helped me a lot over the years, in several ways. medication has too. don’t be discouraged if you have to try several meds before something works. Also you might have to try more then one doc to find the right one for you. I started by searching psychologist & psychiatrist close to home that were covered by my insurance provider. It can be a slow process but you have to start somewhere. For me it was definitely worth it. I’m not healed forever, I still have bouts, but I’ve learned different techniques and coping mechanisms over the years, mostly through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or CBT. I’m way better off then I was 12-13 yeas ago.
One of the breakthroughs if you will, that I made a long time ago was being able to recognize the negative thoughts early on, and stopping them in their tracks. Well… trying to stop them before I went into a negative thought spiral. Usually something creative helped me. Things like making music, meditation, simple exercise or stretching routine, deep breathing exercises, listening to upbeat music while dancing/head banging, writing, doing some graphic design/art, helping others, watching something funny, are all things that help me change my frame of mind or at least distract myself for awhile.
Writing things down is great, it’s a quick way to get things out, and it usually helps me. It’s not going to transform you but its something anyone can do anywhere at anytime and it definitely helps. it doesn’t have to be formal, just put pen to paper, or type what your thinking or feeling. write anything you want.
I’m sure you’ve heard this part before but drinking lots of water, eating healthy, exercise, and getting your circadian rhythm on track can all help a lot too. I hope you find the help you need, and get better friend.
It helps me to remind myself that depression is a physical condition with mental symptoms. It does not define me. It is not me. It is a disease that I am effected by. This helps to separate myself form the depression in a way. Hang in there. You can control this. I get what you are saying about antidepressants. For me it's like walking around wrapped in bubble wrap. Everything feels artificial. However, when things get really bad I resort to meds myself.
I've been a bystander to my wife's journey with depression over the past 35 years.
Back then medications were prescribed in much the way pain medication is today - as a temporary measure to get the symptoms down to a manageable level so that therapy could be effective, with the goal of reducing or even eliminating the need for ongoing medication. Therapy was a requirement in those days if she was going to be on medications.
I've watched the pathway completely reverse over the years. Back then the role of psychiatrist was to get to the root of the issues causing the pain and help you get past them. Today all the psychiatrist does is manage medications. The psychiatrist doesn't even do therapy, and finding a therapist is optional.
Over the years the number of medications kept going up. A medication would be added for each symptom. But some medications would introduce new symptoms, which would then result in adding another medication ... it took a good twenty years or so, but a workable balance of a disturbing number of medications was finally reached. Now it's a house of cards. Nobody can take out one of the cards for fear of the whole thing coming down.
But, at least she is indeed able to get her head above water enough to improve her ability to cope. And, after finally finding the right "talk" therapist, real progress is being made. I don't think she'll ever be off medication, but her skill set to recognize the onset and manage things has gone steadily up.
Why did I write all that? I'm not sure. Not to discourage medication. In fact, I think it can be essential and should not be feared. But I think it's critical to watch for the tendency of doctors to see it as the only fix and to overload medications to the point of absurdity. And, the importance of productive therapy. What I'm talking about here is help in developing skills to recognize and ward off downward spirals. Often, just recognizing what is going on and why, helps her to not get so overwhelmed. Just staring down a black pit is debilitating. Realizing that it isn't bottomless and that there are ways to climb out helps enormously. Learning to recognize the ways out shortens the recovery. Therapy is now giving her that tool set and is helping more the the medications ever did.
If I could wish for more, it would be that therapy would help her get past the trauma that got her where she is today. They don't seem to do that any more. They seem to be accepting of these as permanent fixtures that just need to be worked around. Maybe so. I don't know. But at least they're helping with the mechanics of dealing with it.
I also have to say, I have another friend for whom medication is a necessity. Without it she has and will end up in mental facilities. Sadly, she feels this is a stigma and fights it. She goes off the meds and all hell breaks loose. She's shocked every time when the solution is ... just to ... take the damn meds. That's a different situation.
Sorry for the long post. I hope there's something helpful in all those words.
I haven't had much time to spend among my forum friends lately but I wanted to take a moment and add my voice to the people wishing you better health and peace of mind. My challenges are different from yours, but I understand feeling hopeless. It's good that you are reaching out. Sometimes that can be the hardest step. Whatever your future holds, know that others care about you, even some you may never meet.
thx for sharing @wim
You probably have things a bit out of perspective. You will have spent a lot of time focussing on negative thoughts and beliefs about yourself which are exaggerated and distorted. This will have happened because you have probably taken longer than you should have to start talking about things with other people, you mentioned about a year, and now you are here.
Reality is subjective, what you believe to be real has been distorted by the habit you have fallen into of negative thinking. There will be very little evidence to back up the beliefs that have now become established within you. You will find this hard to believe because you will think that you know better.... but you don’t. Look up ‘classic cognitive thinking errors’ and they will resonate with you.
The problem with the behaviour changes that you mentioned is that you have to keep going with them despite still feeling depressed, which can feel counter intuitive- and that they are not working. The feelings change only after a sustained behavioural change. This is why most people tend to give up.
Keep trying out different counsellors until you find one you are comfortable with, it is unreasonable to expect that the first one you meet is the one that you will engage with. The simple fact is that some of them are totally clueless, and some are brilliant. What to look out for is one that seems to understand how you are feeling. This should happen after one meeting. .... It will possibly be one of the best investments you will ever make.
If this is not possible then talk to as many people that you can trust and that are available and happy to do so. There is absolutely no shame whatsoever to be had in feeling this way, not a scintilla. In fact - talking about feelings of weakness is an admirable quality which many others wish they had for themselves.
Do not be concerned about medication if things are really quite bad for you. But you should use the medication simply as a starting point and in conjunction with lifestyle changes, counselling, talking to others and learning about what has happened to you. It really is very common and very easy to slip into. With a bit of dedication making yourself do things that you have planned despite feeling low, you will absolutely succeed in coming out of this.
@wim
Sorry to hear about your wife’s struggle.
It is difficult being the bystander
to another’s struggle.
You’ve raised some really interesting points.
I agree with your sentiment in
regards to meds and therapy.
A really good friend of mine died from
cancer a few years back, an amazing man.
We used to stand on our road and talk
for hours about almost every topic you
could think of.
Anyway, I used to visit him in the hospital
before he passed away and during one
of these visits his doctor came in and
asked him,’How are you?’
He said,’I’m deeply worried about my
family and their future.’
The Doctor said ,’When you finish this course of cancer medication I’ll prescribe
you some antidepressants’.
My friend from his hospital bed said to me
‘I don’t need antidepressants
I simply need someone to talk to.’
The Doctor didn’t even blink and carried
on prescribing the antidepressants
and walked out.
During that same visit another doctor
came in and was recommending food
for my friend to eat as his digestive had basically collapsed.
She recommended chicken soup to him.
I was aghast.
He was Hindi.
Hindi’s are vegetarians.
Not one morsel of meat had
ever passed his lips.
I had to say he doesn’t eat meat.
It was sad to witness
Point being I’m seen the lack of therapy
for myself and it’s not cool.
Also wanted to add that I had great help from Sertraline, I took it during one year when therapy and yoga just wasn't enough to cope with my anxiety and depression. Combined with mindfullness-based cognitive therapy it really helped finding the mental space to learn some coping strategies. I still have some bad days, but I can handle it, or at least know that it will pass. My wife is on Sertraline right now and it helps her a lot too.
Meds works for many, it might be worth a try! I had some weird side effects when starting, but it went away after a week. Also when quitting, I got quite bad tempered (sorry, family) for a while but also that did pass. Now I do only yoga and meditation, and would like / am trying to do it more often.
I wish you strength!
Are there support groups for people with these symptoms. I have to believe that would
help with the isolation and the lack of empathy for this condition.
@wim... your input was worth is weight in gold. It has the value of a lived experience from someone eager to assist with support and solid advice. So, much better than most of us can offer beyond "Hang in there" or the generic "sorry".
Good luck OP. I too have suffered with depression. It puts you in a dark place and the way it changes your personality and outlook to the point where you cannot see any escape.
The medication did help but I only took it for the shortest time possible.
Folks saying snap out of it etc.. do not help.
There is nothing external that work. The change can only happen within. You just have to try to stay strong enough for it to eventually happen.
Everyone living with someone suffering from depression should have to go to a clinic where they induce symptoms temporarily and leave you to deal with them for a month or so. (That doesn't exist - it's just an imaginary idea.)
I tell you I had so much less sympathy and understanding until I went through a relatively brief bout with heavy depression and experienced a panic attack or two. Didn't take much! You simply can't understand the sense of fear and helplessness until you're unable to deal with it yourself. Thank god it was mercifully brief!
Anyone suffering will have at least some friends and family that just don't understand. That hurts, but it may help to realize that there just isn't any way they can truly understand if they haven't been there. They can mean well, and be doing what they are out of love with pure, though misinformed, intent. I know. I've been that person.
I’m really sorry to read this Charlie and all of you who struggle with depression. Either for your self or for your loved ones. I have friends who suffers from depression and it is terrIble.
Take care ❤️
Hang in there everyone. I don't have any advice. I do have a poem for you:
When things dissolve, you find yourself in new space
Formlessness and chaos lead to new forms
The cosmic conspiracy of song, plugged into the universe on a cellular level where
We are all one organism, we are all the universe, and we’re all doing the same thing here
Earthling consciousness
Reverberating in four dimensional spacetime
Singing the cosmic electric
I dont know what to say! Thank you all for the comments!!! I am going to beat this thing. For all of you that are going through similar situations I hope that your and your loved ones will get better. This really is a great forum!!!
I will keep reading all these posts and take a lot of your advice. I am going to see doc next week so will talk about meds.
More to come!
Peace Charlie
@onerez and @Liquidmantis
I don't post here much any more, but I wanted to throw in one more voice of support. So sorry to hear about all the unfortunate events in your lives and that you're struggling so much. Sharing with friends as you've done here is a healthy move IMO. Godspeed on getting to a better place. I hope both of you know there's definitely a better place waiting for you. Peace.
On a side note: weed is a wildcard and should be evaluated seriously as a factor (positive or negative). A small amount on an occasional basis can have very noticeable positive effects on my outlook. Regular or heavy use makes things worse. For me. Everyone is different.
A close friend has been hospitalized twice now with complete psychotic breaks directly following extended periods of loading up on ever increasing amounts of weed. That is one person who should never or very rarely be getting high ... but of course convinces herself over and over that it's not a factor.
Hi Charlie!
I have been in various depression since I was an young teenager, and now I’m 50+ - it has been an struggle, but I has been lucky that has a good family and an awesome girlfriend since 21 years back…
I have refused antidep medicals all my life, but, last fall (october 2020) I was very near a suicide…
It ended that I started to meet an psychologist thru my dayjob - and thru my job I was enabled to meet an very old and experienced doctor (67 year) - he convinced me to try out some SSRI-medical, and, one year later I’m a totally new person!!!
I have stoped dreaming nightmares, my thoughts are positive, I have been doing things on our house that my girlfriend has been wishing the last seven years!
So, give some medicals a try - for me I’m the same person, but in some version 2.0, not an buggy crashing beta version 0.88!
Hope my little story can help you on the way forward…
Love from Sweden…
Hello Charlie and Liquidmantis,
Thank you for sharing your stories. Both of you in sharing the truth of what is going on in your worlds are courageous and amazing. You are leading us to a world of honesty and heart. Thank you for your vulnerability. It is such a gift.
I wish you both well on your journeys through depression. I have known depression and it still arises in my life. For me the best tool I have found is called The Work of Byron Katie. If you are interested, go to https://thework.com. It has all the information you need to do The Work and it is free. There are also videos of Byron Katie on youtube. In the process you write down your stressful thoughts and then ask questions about those thoughts: is it true, can I absolutely know it's true, how do I react when I believe that thought and who would I be without that thought? There is a bit more to it than that. If you are interested, go to the site and follow the directions.
Of course, like anything, it is not for everyone. I don't even think you should do it. I was moved by your openness and so wanted to share what has opened up my world. And I would be happy to help you with the process if you were so interested.
I hope you both find the path that is best for you. Thank you again for your courage.
John
In an effort not to divert attention away from the OP, I'll try to keep this brief.
It's easy to see others and think "wow, everyone has their 💩 together and is thriving - I'm broken and a mess." I have those thoughts often, and have had up and down battles with depression myself. My emotional state swings wildly between extremes and it's often very difficult to stay centered. Remember that you can find solidarity in others, many of whom are struggling as you are. It won't solve the problem, but sometimes the reminder that we AREN'T alone in this world can take the edge off enough to start to see things for what they are rather than what your depressed mind wants you to think they are.
You have friends and a community to support you. With the advent of social media, it's easy to only show a small portion of life and to make it seem like life is all roses. Again - it's easy to walk down the street, watch others living their lives and think that they all have it together while you are broken. It's not true, and even in your brokenness you are perfect, ok and loved. It's hardest to remember that when your brain won't let you.
Apologies for the sidetrack - breathe. One moment at a time. Vent here as much as you need. There are those who can help you, and you can climb on top of this mountain. I believe in you @onerez & @Liquidmantis
Sorry to hear your troubles. Stay strong and try to get through it. Things can change. I used to be terribly depressed for years and always have had terrible anxiety and still do really for anxiety anyway. I can’t say I can complain about much now. I’m doing pretty well. I haven’t been depressed in years at this point. I’ve been stuck in a rut for music though regardless. That is a separate issue. I’ve been stuck in a small apartment with little usable room. My musical rut occurred as soon as I moved to that apartment 2 years ago. I just bought a house and set up only an 88 key keyboard so far in the few days I’ve been here. I’m already playing music more than I have in months. I have enough room that there is no excuse for not having nearly everything set up all the time.
I know personally that it's extremely difficult to fight off the black dog of depression when you can't put a finger on why you feel that way. I've know I've got a great life that many would envy, so why does it all feel like sh1t so often? Without going into detail I've considered lots of ways of dealing with it that a "normal" person would think are both inappropriate and disproportionate.
I've been on Sertraline for a few years and think it's probably helping, but I don't really know - how does anyone know that a pill is helping you feel better? I hate being on any medication - I don't even take painkillers - but I've learned to accept that I have to keep taking it for a while longer. I choose to approach my requirement for Sertraline in 3 month chunks of time, and refuse to consider it a long term solution.
@onerez @Liquidmantis hopefully you now know you're not alone in here, and at least several of us will have your backs when things are tough. I used to have days where making music just didn't seem possible, but now I choose to approach playing music as either enjoyment or a necessary form of therapy depending on how I feel at the time. Virtually nothing I produce when I'm feeling really down is even listenable, but I think just the act of creating it helps - even if only because I can laugh at it a few days later when I listen back to it. Laughing at yourself feels like great medication every single time.
I hear people having different attitudes and advice regarding depression and mental illnesses as a whole. I personally wouldn’t not choose or discount any of the avenues, in fact I’d try to educate myself and use combination of most. Most importantly though I’d seek external help. It’s easy, especially now that information and misinformation is so easily available, to lock yourself in self help world of on line research.
I haven’t been depressed personally (yet) but I’ve witnessed it first person. Things that spring to mind:
……but also think and act I.e: I think I should do this—>> get up and do it
Sorry if the above sound cliche or whatever, just passing on what I feel might help.
Take care brother
Hi @onerez,
Sad to read this!
Hope you will find a way to get better sometime soon!
Best wishes,
Lars
we know why we’re here (music’n’apps), but we also have the space to wonder “why are we here?”
so much Loving sharing, and beautiful offered possibilities.
Breathe well everyone :::))
———
my own metaphor of choice is the waveform
the wave form of our emotional sense
i’ve found 3 knobs to twist to alter this … labelled them “mind”,,”body”,,”environment”
tweaks to these seem to alter my frequency and emotional state (fwiw)
Be well :everyone )))
This thread is great. There have been too many meaningful and thoughtful replies to respond to directly, so I just wanted to say that I'm reading the thread and I appreciate all the outpouring of support and caring words. Lately the world has seemed so divisive and angry; it's wonderful to see people come together.
Sorry to hear about your struggles.
You’ve done absolutely the right thing in posting your situation here and sharing it with others. That’s the first step in releasing some of the burden. This forum is full of amazing and cool like-minded and broad-minded people. A lot of life experience here for sure! It is like a family of sorts with many trustworthy and caring folks who understand where you’re coming from. The responses here so far prove that, and help to convince you that you are not alone in your present state of mind.
I’ve also been where you are right now. It was a long time ago and it went on for over a decade. Fortunately for me, I had a best mate at the time who was also struggling with exactly the same state of mind. So it was fortunate for him too! We met regularly during that decade and talked through everything, nothing held back from each other no matter how embarrassing or emotional. We read a lot of different books, spiritual, philosophical and psychological in nature, and did a lot of research and analysis into those subjects.
Eventually we worked it out together, humbled ourselves and became thankful for just being alive. It was a long slow process but bit by bit we resolved things, and things started falling back into place for us for getting back into normal life and moving forwards in control of our lives again.
It’s different for everyone. Everyone has their limits and their own ways of coping and working through the particular things that are troubling them. There’s no one solution fits all. But I definitely think that every solution begins with opening up to others and sharing your feelings for any feedback or advice, which you’ve done here.
I didn’t try to solve everything at once. I broke things down into their places and priorities according to my most basic needs, and worked on them one at a time. Stripped everything back and started again. I found that my practical and mental obstacles were two sides of the same coin, both intimately connected and influencing each other. They are all parts of the one whole problem, and so when you solve one part, it opens a door and partly solves the next problem and so on until everything is resolved and the coin is balanced positively again.
I wish you all the best love, light and inner strength to overcome your own obstacles. Don’t be afraid to reach out here in future. Connection to others and talking is really important rather than keeping it all inside and suffering feeling alone and isolated.
😊🙏
Dear Charlie, you sharing your situation here is a good step forward. Thanks! I keep bad things to myself too often and releasing a burden is so helpful in many ways.
This forum indeed is great and I'm amazed with all the positive reactions, we're all buddies here.
I realy hope and pray for you that you will get through this. I know you will beat this thing, just like you said!
Stay strong!
Big Hug!!
+1
Regarding ptsd Chris, have you read the book 'The Body Keeps the Score'? Highly recommended, even just for ppl dealing with stress rather than actual trauma
Indeed, Byron Katie (a woman) is unique. Although she came to her awakening out of the blue, the roots are very much Advaita Vedanta… a non dualistic way of looking at the world that has stunning consequences for one’s POV if you can grasp the “truth” inherent in it,
Almost all of our lives are fictional stories we have learned from our parents, education, church and culture… as well as the stories we tell ourselves. Money and religion are great examples of made up narratives that only hold water if everyone agrees to the made up story…. Little pieces of paper and even gold have intrinsic value… there is a wise god that watches your every move and judges you…
When people stop granting “truth” to any structure it collapses. Especially relevant in the US now because “democracy” and the Constitution only survive when people agree to abide by the rules… also invented by people.
The relevance of all this to depression? What we tell ourselves about ourselves is a made up story, with inaccuracies mostly because we are using our thoughts to advance a negative narrative. There are other factors for sure, but how we actually think about things… with all its misconceptions and downright lies creates our self image… either towards inferiority of grandiosity… or the infinite places in between.
Another Vedantist, Bob Adams, wrote a book with the title “What’s Wrong With Right Now (If we don’t think about it). And, of course Wm Shakespeare “There is nothing in heaven or earth but thinking makes it do”.
Investigating one’s own thought movie is fascinating, productive and distracting. People like Byron Katie point the way with indisputable sense and clarity, Reading Noah Yuval’s books Sapiens and Homo Deus present the same earth shattering reality from an historical perspective. Very few of us see reality for what it is. For me, it is a decades long effort to stay in the light despite a pessimistic and cynical propensity toward life and it’s darker aspects.