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Apartheid is Fascism ( or: your crypto won’t save you when the jackboots come-a-marching).

2456715

Comments

  • @ervin said:

    @GLacey said:

    @mulletsaison said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Isn’t Hungary close? How far is Turkey and Erdogan from fascism? Does its Islamist bent make it not fascist? Just because there are no fascists at our gates doesn’t mean they’re not trying. I’ve always hated the knee jerk comparisons to Hitler and Nazis and fascists that are facile and hyperbolic, but it’s always way too close for comfort.

    Also, I don’t think there was ever a fascist government in South Africa, no matter how racist Apartheid was. We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    I’m from Hungary and I can say this country is very-very far from being fascist. It’s very safe to live here for everyone whatever the mainstream media tries to suggest. Actually it hurts me each time I hear this bullshit. 🙁

    Oh hey. :) I'm from Hungary, too - and I agree it is nowhere near fascism. It is, sadly, increasingly becoming a dictatorial system, a democracy more on paper than in spirit - which is sad to see just a few decades after the country got rid of another kind of dictatorship. But that's a different topic.

    This “alt-right” bullshit that seems to be globally successful, in Spain too, there’s nothing “alt” about it, just rephrasing the old stale selfish and intolerant agenda in a very simple package.
    Now it’s “libertarian”, which is certainly a nicer name. Freedom to be homophobic, racist, misogynist… And if you point at them, you’re a communist. Pretty simple, by polarization, if there’s only communists or them, the extreme right is no longer extreme. They’re not indulging fascist ideas, they’re just freedom fighters and even Biden is a communist. They’re not homophobic, they’re just defending their family values, that the gay communist agenda is trying to undermine. They’re not racist, they’re only defending local tradition (except foreign hedge funds and speculation, those are ok), and so on…
    What amazes me is that these things come in “packages”. What does an economic ideology have to do with abortion, gay marriage or bloody gun control?. It used to be that you could only manipulate those that read the papers, watched the news, and those require some effort cos they showed desire to be informed.

    Communist or fascist. Koala or BM3. Preset hoarder (🙋🏻‍♂️@ervin ) or tweaker.

    👇 this needs a new version with an iPad!

    What a forum this is! 👏👏👏🙌

  • I’m just finishing this book called Militarized Global Apartheid written by an anthropologist that demonstrates how the whole world operates as an apartheid system that divides the global north and the global south along racial lines for exploitation. It’s the most convincing account I’ve read about global inequality and what used to be called “underdevelopment.”

    Here’s the blurb:
    In Militarized Global Apartheid Catherine Besteman offers a sweeping theorization of the ways in which countries from the global north are reproducing South Africa's apartheid system on a worldwide scale to control the mobility and labor of people from the global south. Exploring the different manifestations of global apartheid, Besteman traces how militarization and securitization reconfigure older forms of white supremacy and deploy them in new contexts to maintain this racialized global order. Whether using the language of security, military intervention, surveillance technologies, or detention centers and other forms of incarceration, these projects reinforce and consolidate the global north's political and economic interests at the expense of the poor, migrants, refugees, Indigenous populations, and people of color. By drawing out how this new form of apartheid functions and pointing to areas of resistance, Besteman opens up new space to theorize potential sources of liberatory politics

  • @dvi said:
    I’m just finishing this book called Militarized Global Apartheid written by an anthropologist that demonstrates how the whole world operates as an apartheid system that divides the global north and the global south along racial lines for exploitation. It’s the most convincing account I’ve read about global inequality and what used to be called “underdevelopment.”

    Here’s the blurb:
    In Militarized Global Apartheid Catherine Besteman offers a sweeping theorization of the ways in which countries from the global north are reproducing South Africa's apartheid system on a worldwide scale to control the mobility and labor of people from the global south. Exploring the different manifestations of global apartheid, Besteman traces how militarization and securitization reconfigure older forms of white supremacy and deploy them in new contexts to maintain this racialized global order. Whether using the language of security, military intervention, surveillance technologies, or detention centers and other forms of incarceration, these projects reinforce and consolidate the global north's political and economic interests at the expense of the poor, migrants, refugees, Indigenous populations, and people of color. By drawing out how this new form of apartheid functions and pointing to areas of resistance, Besteman opens up new space to theorize potential sources of liberatory politics

    Thanks for the heads up about Besteman’s work.

  • @dvi said:
    I’m just finishing this book called Militarized Global Apartheid written by an anthropologist that demonstrates how the whole world operates as an apartheid system that divides the global north and the global south along racial lines for exploitation. It’s the most convincing account I’ve read about global inequality and what used to be called “underdevelopment.”

    Here’s the blurb:
    In Militarized Global Apartheid Catherine Besteman offers a sweeping theorization of the ways in which countries from the global north are reproducing South Africa's apartheid system on a worldwide scale to control the mobility and labor of people from the global south. Exploring the different manifestations of global apartheid, Besteman traces how militarization and securitization reconfigure older forms of white supremacy and deploy them in new contexts to maintain this racialized global order. Whether using the language of security, military intervention, surveillance technologies, or detention centers and other forms of incarceration, these projects reinforce and consolidate the global north's political and economic interests at the expense of the poor, migrants, refugees, Indigenous populations, and people of color. By drawing out how this new form of apartheid functions and pointing to areas of resistance, Besteman opens up new space to theorize potential sources of liberatory politics

    Thanks I’m getting that for my e reader right now. Thank you!

  • @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

  • @ervin said:

    @sevenape said:

    @GLacey said:

    @mulletsaison said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Isn’t Hungary close? How far is Turkey and Erdogan from fascism? Does its Islamist bent make it not fascist? Just because there are no fascists at our gates doesn’t mean they’re not trying. I’ve always hated the knee jerk comparisons to Hitler and Nazis and fascists that are facile and hyperbolic, but it’s always way too close for comfort.

    Also, I don’t think there was ever a fascist government in South Africa, no matter how racist Apartheid was. We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    I’m from Hungary and I can say this country is very-very far from being fascist. It’s very safe to live here for everyone whatever the mainstream media tries to suggest. Actually it hurts me each time I hear this bullshit. 🙁

    I’m happy to hear that! And I hope it’s true for Roma and homosexual people too.

    Touché, unfortunately.

    Was hoping I’d be wrong. I mean here in italy they just voted that homophobia isn’t a hate crime so…

  • @sevenape said:

    @GLacey said:

    @mulletsaison said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Isn’t Hungary close? How far is Turkey and Erdogan from fascism? Does its Islamist bent make it not fascist? Just because there are no fascists at our gates doesn’t mean they’re not trying. I’ve always hated the knee jerk comparisons to Hitler and Nazis and fascists that are facile and hyperbolic, but it’s always way too close for comfort.

    Also, I don’t think there was ever a fascist government in South Africa, no matter how racist Apartheid was. We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    I’m from Hungary and I can say this country is very-very far from being fascist. It’s very safe to live here for everyone whatever the mainstream media tries to suggest. Actually it hurts me each time I hear this bullshit. 🙁

    I’m happy to hear that! And I hope it’s true for Roma and homosexual people too.

    👍🏼

  • By the way, this sounds great.
    Very nice work.

  • @dendy said:

    @GLacey said:
    I’m from Hungary and I can say this country is very-very far from being fascist. It’s very safe to live here for everyone whatever the mainstream media tries to suggest. Actually it hurts me each time I hear this bullshit. 🙁

    Recently was few day in Budapest and was absolutely amazed by this city. Very beautiful city, full of tourists of all skin color tones :)) but everybody was polite here .. i have to say i felt VERY safe there, also all people were very kind and helpful. (i'm neighbour from Slovakia). I hope i will return there more times, there is tons of things to explore. My most favourite european city for now !

    Nice words! Great to hear this opinion!

  • @ervin said:
    Oh hey. :) I'm from Hungary, too - and I agree it is nowhere near fascism. It is, sadly, increasingly becoming a dictatorial system, a democracy more on paper than in spirit - which is sad to see just a few decades after the country got rid of another kind of dictatorship. But that's a different topic.

    Nice to see more people from my little country :)

  • @GLacey said:

    @dendy said:

    @GLacey said:
    I’m from Hungary and I can say this country is very-very far from being fascist. It’s very safe to live here for everyone whatever the mainstream media tries to suggest. Actually it hurts me each time I hear this bullshit. 🙁

    Recently was few day in Budapest and was absolutely amazed by this city. Very beautiful city, full of tourists of all skin color tones :)) but everybody was polite here .. i have to say i felt VERY safe there, also all people were very kind and helpful. (i'm neighbour from Slovakia). I hope i will return there more times, there is tons of things to explore. My most favourite european city for now !

    Nice words! Thank you! Great to hear this opinion!

  • @sevenape said:

    Thanks I’m getting that for my e reader right now. Thank you!

    Great! I hope you like it. Excellent stuff, by the way. And best of luck with the recovery!

  • edited December 2021

    @JeffChasteen said:
    By the way, this sounds great.
    Very nice work.

    Thank you very very much!

    @OnfraySin said:
    Maybe one of the few creations post in this forum that I like.

    Congratulations

    This is really a huge compliment for me. Thank you!

    @tahiche said:
    I applaud 👏 your position, concerns and the way you explicitly state your message @sevenape. I can’t for the life of me understand how someone might be bothered by the title or message.
    It’s not “punk” or “transgressive”, it’s common sense!. They’re not “protest” songs, just describing reality.
    I too, have my opinion about the crypto thingy. Very much on your boat!. Keep it going! 🙌💥

    Thank you tahiche and, yes I dunno lots of people get offended about the strangest things these days. I love your song and have subscribed to your channel!! Solidarity brother!

  • @crony said:

    @sevenape said:
    So I’m Covid positive and I did this on my first day off work. It’s a sort of free form wintery and bleak drone song. Over use of piano book but still, I like the sound and it fits the brain fog quite well. It’s made as a background music to a video by a friend of mine. ( not sure if he agrees with me about crypto, but I hope he agrees with me about apartheid).

    Have fun. I’m not. This isn’t his film by the way, it’s some cobbled together stuff I made for my YouTube.

    Nice track ! Thanks for sharing ! :)

    Thank you for listening!

  • Lovely work, sound debate, good stuff 👍👍

  • @tahiche said:
    This “alt-right” bullshit that seems to be globally successful, in Spain too, there’s nothing “alt” about it, just rephrasing the old stale selfish and intolerant agenda in a very simple package.
    Now it’s “libertarian”, which is certainly a nicer name. Freedom to be homophobic, racist, misogynist… And if you point at them, you’re a communist. Pretty simple, by polarization, if there’s only communists or them, the extreme right is no longer extreme. They’re not indulging fascist ideas, they’re just freedom fighters and even Biden is a communist. They’re not homophobic, they’re just defending their family values, that the gay communist agenda is trying to undermine. They’re not racist, they’re only defending local tradition (except foreign hedge funds and speculation, those are ok), and so on…
    What amazes me is that these things come in “packages”. What does an economic ideology have to do with abortion, gay marriage or bloody gun control?. It used to be that you could only manipulate those that read the papers, watched the news, and those require some effort cos they showed desire to be informed.

    Communist or fascist. Koala or BM3. Preset hoarder (🙋🏻‍♂️@ervin ) or tweaker.

    👇 this needs a new version with an iPad!

    What a forum this is! 👏👏👏🙌

    Now there’s an idea for sticker bombing my iPad.

    I’m just amazed at the lengths people will take their partisan bullshit, to the extent of allying themselves with the most hateful people and groups just because its against their “opponents”. This contrarian attitude is everywhere now, and at the cost of losing true democratic and humanitarian principles.

    Still, I will never ever use bm3.

  • @Krupa said:
    Lovely work, sound debate, good stuff 👍👍

    Thank you so so much xxx

  • Yes we have to be careful about terminology but let's not forget it was only this year that Trump supporters staged an attempted coup at the Capitol. They came a lot closer to suceeding than a lot of us, myself included, realised at the time.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0010tff/four-hours-at-the-capitol

  • @sevenape said:
    Still, I will never ever use bm3.

    🤣🤣🤣

  • @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    Well spotted. 👏🏻

  • @sevenape : nice composition. Thanks for sharing.

  • edited December 2021

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

  • edited December 2021

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    Ben Shapiro is an American “right wing intellectual” who also likes to move the goalposts during a discussion. Sorry, but that exceedingly lame “Anti-Semitic” canard was not a nice try.

    See you at the barricades, but not here. I have no time for bad faith arguments.
    Toodles.

  • @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    Ben Shapiro is an American “right wing intellectual” who also likes to move the goalposts during a discussion. Sorry, but that exceedingly lame “Anti-Semitic” canard was not a nice try.

    See you at the barricades, but not here. I have no time for bad faith arguments.
    Toodles.

    Oh, boy. You didn’t address a single point made. I guess posting incendiary material then walking away without being able to defend it is a choice.

  • @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    No offence but antifa is just a term for someone who opposes fascism, and has roots as far back as Germany in the 1930s, the far right in America have appropriated the term and twisted it to make the term a slur. Literally anyone who opposes fascism is antifa.

    There may or may not be dictionary definition fascist governments in power today but there are certainly governments that have fascistic tendencies and to ignore that is to commit the errors our grandparents made 90 years ago.

  • @sevenape said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    No offence but antifa is just a term for someone who opposes fascism, and has roots as far back as Germany in the 1930s, the far right in America have appropriated the term and twisted it to make the term a slur. Literally anyone who opposes fascism is antifa.

    There may or may not be dictionary definition fascist governments in power today but there are certainly governments that have fascistic tendencies and to ignore that is to commit the errors our grandparents made 90 years ago.

    I’ll just leave this here:

    Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."

    Not so outlandish…

  • @sevenape said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    No offence but antifa is just a term for someone who opposes fascism, and has roots as far back as Germany in the 1930s, the far right in America have appropriated the term and twisted it to make the term a slur. Literally anyone who opposes fascism is antifa.

    There may or may not be dictionary definition fascist governments in power today but there are certainly governments that have fascistic tendencies and to ignore that is to commit the errors our grandparents made 90 years ago.

    I probably don’t have to clarify this for you, but the people who were members of the historical antifascist movement within Germany were Communists. You know this already, right? The Nazi movement in Germany was bad and so were the Communists who fought them. All bad. Communists aren’t better because of one ahistorical event which was detrimental to Nazis. Communism is awful. Ask someone who lived through it. I have plenty of first hand accounts from people I’ve known.

  • @sevenape said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    No offence but antifa is just a term for someone who opposes fascism, and has roots as far back as Germany in the 1930s, the far right in America have appropriated the term and twisted it to make the term a slur. Literally anyone who opposes fascism is antifa.

    There may or may not be dictionary definition fascist governments in power today but there are certainly governments that have fascistic tendencies and to ignore that is to commit the errors our grandparents made 90 years ago.

    👏
    Yes

  • @sevenape said:

    @sevenape said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    No offence but antifa is just a term for someone who opposes fascism, and has roots as far back as Germany in the 1930s, the far right in America have appropriated the term and twisted it to make the term a slur. Literally anyone who opposes fascism is antifa.

    There may or may not be dictionary definition fascist governments in power today but there are certainly governments that have fascistic tendencies and to ignore that is to commit the errors our grandparents made 90 years ago.

    I’ll just leave this here:

    Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."

    Not so outlandish…

    Sorry I’m not familiar with your source, but if he ever argued in favor of people in Antifa or their radical Left violence, I’m afraid I cannot take him seriously. Ever.

  • edited December 2021

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @sevenape said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @mulletsaison said:
    We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

    True.

    When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

    When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

    The labels become meaningless.

    Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

    @NeuM said:

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    @Eschatone said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

    I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

    I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

    We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

    That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

    You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

    We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

    Excellent observation.

    The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

    As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

    Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

    First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

    Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

    Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

    And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

    No offence but antifa is just a term for someone who opposes fascism, and has roots as far back as Germany in the 1930s, the far right in America have appropriated the term and twisted it to make the term a slur. Literally anyone who opposes fascism is antifa.

    There may or may not be dictionary definition fascist governments in power today but there are certainly governments that have fascistic tendencies and to ignore that is to commit the errors our grandparents made 90 years ago.

    👏
    Yes

    Jeff, do you self-identify as a Communist, Marxist or other form of Socialist?

    I’m aware that exceedingly naive and ignorant of history young people are more radically Left these days. They don’t understand why it doesn’t work because they confuse violent mass action with power. Violent mass action is the opposite of freedom. It is pack animal behavior. And any person familiar with the “work” of Antifa in Portland and Seattle in the US knows that the mentally ill sociopaths there are a danger to themselves and to everyone in the area.

This discussion has been closed.