Apartheid is Fascism ( or: your crypto won’t save you when the jackboots come-a-marching).

JeffChasteen

@NeuM said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@NeuM said:

@Simon said:

@mulletsaison said:
We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

True.

When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

The labels become meaningless.

Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

@NeuM said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@espiegel123 said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@Eschatone said:

@ExAsperis99 said:
Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

Excellent observation.

The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

Ben Shapiro is an American “right wing intellectual” who also likes to move the goalposts during a discussion. Sorry, but that exceedingly lame “Anti-Semitic” canard was not a nice try.

See you at the barricades, but not here. I have no time for bad faith arguments.
Toodles.

Oh, boy. You didn’t address a single point made. I guess posting incendiary material then walking away without being able to defend it is a choice.

I repeat: I have no time for bad faith arguments. Even ones wielded by more adroit trolls.

Speaking of “posting incendiary materials”...
you may want to do something about that beam in your eye.
Or maybe not?

NeuM

@JeffChasteen said:

@NeuM said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@NeuM said:

@Simon said:

@mulletsaison said:
We should be rigorous about what these words mean, or we run the risk of losing their meaning.

True.

When the left don't like a right wing politician they brand them fascist.

When the right don't like a left wing politician they brand them communist.

The labels become meaningless.

Some of the labels might be warranted. If someone calls themself a "Democratic Socialist" but their every statement aligns with Marxism, I think that's a problem with them being up front about their positions.> @JeffChasteen said:

@NeuM said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@espiegel123 said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@Eschatone said:

@ExAsperis99 said:
Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

We live in a world where mainstream conservative publications can have op-Ed’s taking umbrage with people for using neo-Nazi and neo-Fascism interchangeably — which leaves the impression that one of those ideologies is not objectionable.

Excellent observation.

The only good fascist is a non-existent fascist.

As far as I know, there are no fascist countries in existence on the planet right now. I understand one's art should not be held to traditional standards, but does fascism exist in South Africa today? Is apartheid still a part of any government there?

Nice try, Mr Shapiro, but I said nothing about fascist countries.

First of all, who is “Mr. Shapiro”? Is this your way of expressing an anti-Semitic comment?

Second of all, words have definitions and definitions matter.

Fascism isn’t about an individual. Fascism is about a system of government. Individuals might express a “fascistic” viewpoint, but a person expressing such an opinion isn’t evidence of fascism. A extremist system of government which is authoritarian would be evidence. There is no such thing today.

And before this conversation goes where I think you’re pushing it, Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.

Ben Shapiro is an American “right wing intellectual” who also likes to move the goalposts during a discussion. Sorry, but that exceedingly lame “Anti-Semitic” canard was not a nice try.

See you at the barricades, but not here. I have no time for bad faith arguments.
Toodles.

Oh, boy. You didn’t address a single point made. I guess posting incendiary material then walking away without being able to defend it is a choice.

I repeat: I have no time for bad faith arguments. Even ones wielded by more adroit trolls.

Speaking of “posting incendiary materials”...
you may want to do something about that beam in your eye.
Or maybe not?

Remind me who started this discussion, please.

espiegel123

It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

In the US, we are closer to having a Communist-led government than ever before in our history. The current administration is a catastrophe.

sevenape

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

Yes! I noticed that too…

espiegel123

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

ExAsperis99

What kind of person defends the sanctity of the definition of "fascism"?

The kind or person who doesn't like the consensus that right wing totalitarianism is abhorrent and therefore throws a bunch of stink bombs in a thread hoping only to get it shut down.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist front gangs committed to overthrowing police, cities, governments and countries.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop. The end comes when the Communists move in and they wipe out all the dissenters, including the lunatics they employed to destroy their own neighborhoods.

BiancaNeve

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."

More fully he describes is as a “genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism. As such it is an ideology deeply bound up with modernization and modernity, one which has assumed a considerable variety of external forms to adapt itself to the particular historical and national context in which it appears, and has drawn a wide range of cultural and intellectual currents, both left and right, anti-modern and pro-modern, to articulate itself as a body of ideas, slogans, and doctrine. In the inter-war period it manifested itself primarily in the form of an elite-led "armed party" which attempted, mostly unsuccessfully, to generate a populist mass movement through a liturgical style of politics and a programme of radical policies which promised to overcome a threat posed by international socialism, to end the degeneration affecting the nation under liberalism, and to bring about a radical renewal of its social, political and cultural life as part of what was widely imagined to be the new era being inaugurated in Western civilization. The core mobilizing myth of fascism which conditions its ideology, propaganda, style of politics and actions is the vision of the nation's imminent rebirth from decadence.”

For those who have no idea what palingenetic means

sevenape

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist stooges.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop.

Please furnish us with facts about the rates of murder from the antifa movement in the US compared with that of the extreme right.

This “they are murdering people on the streets” stuff is complete bullshit.

sevenape

I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

BiancaNeve

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

You truly believe that the bunch of people looking like lost tourists amazed that they had managed to get into the capitol constituted a real concerted attempt to end democracy?

JeffChasteen

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

“But...but...but...they were just tourists!!!”

NeuM

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist stooges.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop.

Please furnish us with facts about the rates of murder from the antifa movement in the US compared with that of the extreme right.

This “they are murdering people on the streets” stuff is complete bullshit.

I take it there is a clique here who all self-identify as “Antifa”. If so, you’re going to love this from 2019.

https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-far-left-violence-extremism-deadly-year-opnion-1477065

And more recently: https://nypost.com/2021/01/30/how-a-portland-radical-murdered-a-trump-supporter/

NeuM

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist stooges.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop.

Please furnish us with facts about the rates of murder from the antifa movement in the US compared with that of the extreme right.

This “they are murdering people on the streets” stuff is complete bullshit.

Which “extreme right” murders by Antifa are you OK with, exactly?

If Antifa is “anti-fascist” let me know which “fascists” have been killed (or “smashed”) by them which fulfills their self-described mission.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/year-protests-portland-residents-waning-patience-antifa/story?id=77511470

JeffChasteen

@BiancaNeve said:

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

You truly believe that the bunch of people looking like lost tourists amazed that they had managed to get into the capitol constituted a real concerted attempt to end democracy?

No one ever said that they were particularly bright or competent insurrectionists...

NeuM

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

You are referring to a bunch of idiots who were goaded on by an embedded FBI agent to enter the Capitol building? How exactly did these dummies “end democracy”? Not even close. I disavow those morons without hesitation.

NeuM

@JeffChasteen said:

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

“But...but...but...they were just tourists!!!”

Who said that? That’s the Left’s talking point. They were there illegally and they’re being charged for doing so. Not one “insurrection” charge against any of of them, though. Because insurrection wasn’t their purpose. They were idiots at the least, misguided at best.

ExAsperis99

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

You are referring to a bunch of idiots who were goaded on by an embedded FBI agent to enter the Capitol building? How exactly did these dummies “end democracy”? Not even close. I disavow those morons without hesitation.

The desperation would be comical if it weren't so pathetic.
I'm out. Sorry, @sevenape, that your moving piece was hijacked but the whataboutists defending authoritarianism and the semantic sanctity of "fascism."

NeuM

@ExAsperis99 said:
What kind of person defends the sanctity of the definition of "fascism"?

The kind or person who doesn't like the consensus that right wing totalitarianism is abhorrent and therefore throws a bunch of stink bombs in a thread hoping only to get it shut down.

That’s a straw man argument. The sanctity belongs to the definition of words. You don’t call throwing a container full of liquid concrete at a person’s head a “milkshake” without sinister purpose.

NeuM

@ExAsperis99 said:

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

You are referring to a bunch of idiots who were goaded on by an embedded FBI agent to enter the Capitol building? How exactly did these dummies “end democracy”? Not even close. I disavow those morons without hesitation.

The desperation would be comical if it weren't so pathetic.
I'm out. Sorry, @sevenape, that your moving piece was hijacked but the whataboutists defending authoritarianism and the semantic sanctity of "fascism."

Sorry, but if the violent terrorists who belong to Antifa are “anti-fascist” then words have no meaning and arguments in favor of their destruction and violence are pointless propaganda.

sevenape

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist stooges.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop.

Please furnish us with facts about the rates of murder from the antifa movement in the US compared with that of the extreme right.

This “they are murdering people on the streets” stuff is complete bullshit.

I take it there is a clique here who all self-identify as “Antifa”. If so, you’re going to love this from 2019.

https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-far-left-violence-extremism-deadly-year-opnion-1477065

And more recently: https://nypost.com/2021/01/30/how-a-portland-radical-murdered-a-trump-supporter/

Andy ngo is a well known provocateur. He will say any old shit for hits.

Here’s a piece for you then.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

sevenape

@ExAsperis99 said:

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

You are referring to a bunch of idiots who were goaded on by an embedded FBI agent to enter the Capitol building? How exactly did these dummies “end democracy”? Not even close. I disavow those morons without hesitation.

The desperation would be comical if it weren't so pathetic.
I'm out. Sorry, @sevenape, that your moving piece was hijacked but the whataboutists defending authoritarianism and the semantic sanctity of "fascism."

Well I should have expected it! Still thank for the love xxxx

NeuM

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist stooges.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop.

Please furnish us with facts about the rates of murder from the antifa movement in the US compared with that of the extreme right.

This “they are murdering people on the streets” stuff is complete bullshit.

I take it there is a clique here who all self-identify as “Antifa”. If so, you’re going to love this from 2019.

https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-far-left-violence-extremism-deadly-year-opnion-1477065

And more recently: https://nypost.com/2021/01/30/how-a-portland-radical-murdered-a-trump-supporter/

Andy ngo is a well known provocateur. He will say any old shit for hits.

Here’s a piece for you then.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

LOL. You missed this part.

“Editor’s note: Since this piece was published in July 2020, the data has changed: domestic terrorism experts now link one homicide in the US to a self-described anti-fascist, the first such killing in 25 years.”

Never mind the billions of dollars of damage done, of course.

And again, WHAT IS “ANTI-FASCIST” about destroying small businesses? Antifa are Communists, Marxists and Socialists who want chaos and to overthrow rule of law and government, from top to bottom. They are the equivalent of Nazi party Brownshirts and they have always been pro-Communist.

JeffChasteen

@NeuM said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@sevenape said:
I mean as far as I know only one “side” staged a real concerted attempt to end democracy in the states

“But...but...but...they were just tourists!!!”

Who said that? That’s the Left’s talking point. They were there illegally and they’re being charged for doing so. Not one “insurrection” charge against any of of them, though. Because insurrection wasn’t their purpose. They were idiots at the least, misguided at best.

I knew you would say that; I’m familiar with all of the predictable parrot squawking points.

In that vein, no criminal is ever charged with being a “malefactor” either, but that doesn’t mean that is not their fundamental status.

CRAKROX

“Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.”

An odd and inaccurate opinion when a report by the Department Of Home Security did not mention antifa as a domestic terrorism risk and ranked white supremacy as the top risk, higher even than that of foreign terrorist groups.

CRAKROX

@CRAKROX said:
“Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism.”

An odd and inaccurate opinion when a report by the Department Of Home Security did not mention antifa as a domestic terrorism risk and ranked white supremacy as the top risk, higher even than that of foreign terrorist groups.

Food for thought that you’re more likely to be killed or maimed by the crackpot right winger down the street rather than by some imagined Islamic or Communist terrorist…

ExAsperis99

The apotheosis of Debate Me, Bro! conservative thought: Literally picking a fight with Auschwitz.

sevenape

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@sevenape said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
It is very rich to me that some people feel free to loosely use socialist, marxist, collectivist, communist as smears for people whose politics they don't like and then become very particular about people being too loose in how they use 'fascist' -- which speaks to the point raised earlier.

It’s not a smear, friend. Members of Antifa ARE IN FACT self-described Marxists, Communists and Socialists. These are all failed philosophies and systems of government. It’s not unfair to point this out. They fail because they ignore human nature. In systems which do not respect individual rights (including free speech, the right of self-defense and individual property rights protections), you have authoritarian governments.

First, as you know, Antifa is not really a "thing" and to the extent that it is, it represents a minuscule number of people on the left -- unless by antifa you mean the broader group of people that are anti-fascist -- which is the majority of Americans.

You and at least one other person in this conversation have in other discussions labeled people and policies socialist that aren't. We've been through this before. I'll refrain from taking this thread down that rabbit hole.

Aha. The good old, “Antifa doesn’t exist, it’s an idea” lie. Well, that “idea” murders and assaults people in the streets, sets buildings and businesses on fire and in the US played a big part of causing billions of dollars of damages nationwide.

What exactly is “anti-fascist” about beating people in the streets? What is “anti-fascist” about looting and destroying small businesses? These halfwits are anti-capitalist Communist stooges.

I’d like one good explanation from any member of this violent Leftist movement to explain in detail what is their end game. Because they don’t have one. Just like any member of a terror group, they never consider where and when their violence will stop.

Please furnish us with facts about the rates of murder from the antifa movement in the US compared with that of the extreme right.

This “they are murdering people on the streets” stuff is complete bullshit.

I take it there is a clique here who all self-identify as “Antifa”. If so, you’re going to love this from 2019.

https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-far-left-violence-extremism-deadly-year-opnion-1477065

And more recently: https://nypost.com/2021/01/30/how-a-portland-radical-murdered-a-trump-supporter/

Andy ngo is a well known provocateur. He will say any old shit for hits.

Here’s a piece for you then.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

LOL. You missed this part.

“Editor’s note: Since this piece was published in July 2020, the data has changed: domestic terrorism experts now link one homicide in the US to a self-described anti-fascist, the first such killing in 25 years.”

Never mind the billions of dollars of damage done, of course.

And again, WHAT IS “ANTI-FASCIST” about destroying small businesses? Antifa are Communists, Marxists and Socialists who want chaos and to overthrow rule of law and government, from top to bottom. They are the equivalent of Nazi party Brownshirts and they have always been pro-Communist.

Then you missed the part where right wing extremists killed 329 people over the same period.

tahiche

Antifa = anti fascism = against fascism

That’s as basic as semantics go.

Antifa are not anti-fascists. They’re transnational terrorists who are funded and directed by Marxists in support of Communism. Everyone attached to Antifa should be charged with terrorism

This has no semantic or historical base, this is a personal and subjective interpretation and meaningless extrapolation. Except, sadly, it’s not even “personal”.