Apartheid is Fascism ( or: your crypto won’t save you when the jackboots come-a-marching).

tahiche

@Michael said:
I want to leave it open so I can read more of @LinearLineman's writing

Indeed!. A joy to read.

The following opinion is totally personal, subjective and maybe a load of crap. We’re all biased, aren’t we?.
@LinearLineman praised @NeuM for defending his position against a majority, and I have to agree. It takes some courage and I’m glad we’re having this conversation, hoping we keep it civil. But I’m also extremely glad and relieved that his position is not common in this crowd/forum.
I think we can all agree that there’s a much smaller percentage of right-wing supporters amongst musicians and artists in general. Coincidence?. My bullshit theory is that it’s tied to sensitivity and expression. An artist wants to share, even if doing music on an iPad by him/herself. Music is social, that’s the opposite of the individualism that’s venerated by the right.
Enjoying reading you all. I think it’s great that @sevenape’s produced a song that ended up in this discussion. 🙌

Simon

@BiancaNeve said:
More fully he describes is as a “genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism. As such it is an ideology deeply bound up with modernization and modernity, one which has assumed a considerable variety of external forms to adapt itself to the particular historical and national context in which it appears, and has drawn a wide range of cultural and intellectual currents, both left and right, anti-modern and pro-modern, to articulate itself as a body of ideas, slogans, and doctrine. In the inter-war period it manifested itself primarily in the form of an elite-led "armed party" which attempted, mostly unsuccessfully, to generate a populist mass movement through a liturgical style of politics and a programme of radical policies which promised to overcome a threat posed by international socialism, to end the degeneration affecting the nation under liberalism, and to bring about a radical renewal of its social, political and cultural life as part of what was widely imagined to be the new era being inaugurated in Western civilization. The core mobilizing myth of fascism which conditions its ideology, propaganda, style of politics and actions is the vision of the nation's imminent rebirth from decadence.”

For those who have no idea what palingenetic means

Nope. I need another clue please.

Is it animal, mineral or vegetable?

Larger than a breadbox?

(thnks)

Is the answer...the Boy Scouts?? The Grand Canyon? Lassie? The Mormon Tabernacle Choir?

(buzzer noise indicates wrong answer)

Honestly, definitions like the above are so loose as to be almost meaningless. Roger needs to go to a creative writing class and learn how to communicate more succinctly. Then he can be a winner in The Glorious Revolution

Simon

@dvi said:
I’m just finishing this book called Militarized Global Apartheid written by an anthropologist that demonstrates how the whole world operates as an apartheid system that divides the global north and the global south along racial lines for exploitation. It’s the most convincing account I’ve read about global inequality and what used to be called “underdevelopment.”

Here’s the blurb:
In Militarized Global Apartheid Catherine Besteman offers a sweeping theorization of the ways in which countries from the global north are reproducing South Africa's apartheid system on a worldwide scale to control the mobility and labor of people from the global south. Exploring the different manifestations of global apartheid, Besteman traces how militarization and securitization reconfigure older forms of white supremacy and deploy them in new contexts to maintain this racialized global order. Whether using the language of security, military intervention, surveillance technologies, or detention centers and other forms of incarceration, these projects reinforce and consolidate the global north's political and economic interests at the expense of the poor, migrants, refugees, Indigenous populations, and people of color. By drawing out how this new form of apartheid functions and pointing to areas of resistance, Besteman opens up new space to theorize potential sources of liberatory politics

So, she's saying that countries with power (who are mainly white) are trying to hold on to it and not give it to others (who are mainly black)...?

Not exactly breaking news.

Every country works in it's own best interest - isn't that what citizens of each country would expect their governments to be doing?

Simon

America has over 300 million people. That's a lot of people.

Only a tiny percentage are ANTIFA protesters or Capitol Building protesters.

The rest are normal citizens who are positioned along the entire political spectrum from far left to far right.

Some even have a mixture of both left and right views, depending on the issue.

It is more complex than simply labelling the bad guys as "right wing fascists" or "left wing commies".

Having said that, I'm glad I'm in Australia

EDIT: only joking, only joking. I love the USA. God Save The King. Hare Krishna, Things Go Better With Coke, Dyb, dyb, dyb, and all that.

dvi

@Simon said:

@dvi said:
I’m just finishing this book called Militarized Global Apartheid written by an anthropologist that demonstrates how the whole world operates as an apartheid system that divides the global north and the global south along racial lines for exploitation. It’s the most convincing account I’ve read about global inequality and what used to be called “underdevelopment.”

Here’s the blurb:
In Militarized Global Apartheid Catherine Besteman offers a sweeping theorization of the ways in which countries from the global north are reproducing South Africa's apartheid system on a worldwide scale to control the mobility and labor of people from the global south. Exploring the different manifestations of global apartheid, Besteman traces how militarization and securitization reconfigure older forms of white supremacy and deploy them in new contexts to maintain this racialized global order. Whether using the language of security, military intervention, surveillance technologies, or detention centers and other forms of incarceration, these projects reinforce and consolidate the global north's political and economic interests at the expense of the poor, migrants, refugees, Indigenous populations, and people of color. By drawing out how this new form of apartheid functions and pointing to areas of resistance, Besteman opens up new space to theorize potential sources of liberatory politics

So, she's saying that countries with power (who are mainly white) are trying to hold on to it and not give it to others (who are mainly black)...?

Not exactly breaking news.

Every country works in it's own best interest - isn't that what citizens of each country would expect their governemtns to be doing?

Not quite what’s she’s saying but I have this feeling that explaining it here will be a waste of everyone’s time. The book’s there for anyone who wants to read it.

NeuM

@Michael said:
I want to leave it open so I can read more of @LinearLineman's writing

I love an impassioned defense of one’s position, and I have a good deal of respect for @LinearLineman, since he makes his point without reverting to ad hominem insults and attacks.

We will probably always disagree, but I’d love to sit down and have a cup of coffee with him. 👍

Michael

@NeuM said:

@Michael said:
I want to leave it open so I can read more of @LinearLineman's writing

I love an impassioned defense of one’s position, and I have a good deal of respect for @LinearLineman, since he makes his point without reverting to ad hominem insults and attacks.

We will probably always disagree, but I’d love to sit down and have a cup of coffee with him. 👍

Likewise! And with you too, actually; I'd love to understand your worldview better. It's sad that there's such a growing divide, and that we feel this frankly primitive urge to divide into tribes and throw rocks. If we can't have conversation, we can't solve a single damn thing in the world. I think the argument can be made that that's just as existential a threat as all the other ones currently plaguing us.

LinearLineman

I think if all right wingers were like @Neum we’d have a much better chance to preserve the values the majority of us cherish. At least he sincerely believes what he is saying. The most reprehensible and fearful among us, I believe, are almost every Republican currently in the US Congress and red state governors.

These cowards and power thieves go along with Stop The Steal, say nothing against the likes of Bobert, Greene, Gosar, Hawley, Cawthorne, McCarthy, Cruz, DeSantis and the rest of them, simply to pave the way to their own self enrichment and hunger for power. They DON’T FUCKING BELIEVE the shit they espouse. And that is something we have never seen before in Republican leadership. A complete abandonment of the truth, or adherence to the Constitution, and what used to be the tenets of the Republican platform… remember, in the 2019 Republican convention they had no fucking platform. Whatever Trump wanted… THAT was their platform!

This is the centerpiece of the authoritarian playbook. All bow to the Dear Leader. I hope our friend NeuM takes that in. This is a different ideology from the Democrats…and also the Republicans of yore. It is cultism, and the political sycophants know it only too well. Cruz, Hawthorne, Kennedy and others… they’re all from Ivy League schools… even Cambridge for gosh sakes. They know what’s going on. They are liars and cowards…. The exact opposite of what we look for in our leaders. Any decent Republican like Cheney (yes, the daughter of Dick) and Adam Kinzinger are vilified and censured by their own party for daring to acknowledge the false narrative. Kinzinger, along with other decent Republicans, like Gonzales are fleeing as fast as they can.

So, the jerks in jail, the “militias” (no they are not the “militia” the Constitution says we have a right to… Cause a militia we have… “a regulated” one, as stipulated in the 2nd Amendment… and that is the fucking NATIONAL GUARD!!) and the plain ole white supremacists… they aren’t the real danger… they are the tools, the pawns of those who know what’s going down. A shitstorm attack on truth slathered with xenophobia, hatred, violence and divisiveness for the sake of personal power and self aggrandizement.

Because they know the demographics of the US are changing fast and unless they resort to chicanery and an assault on the truth their day as the White rulers are over. Fuck, even Barbados just threw the Queen out and declared independence. While we, the Ugliest Generation, is looking to elect a King.

Unfortunately, Biden and Harris are far from ideal. The best we can say about them is, at least, they ain’t Thump. Maybe Bone Spurs will pick Alec Baldwin for his second in command for 2024, since Baldwin now claims he didn’t pull the trigger and was only following Hutchins’ (his victim’s) direction.

The Age of Perfidy is upon us. Make music before it’s too late.

NeuM

@Michael said:

@NeuM said:

@Michael said:
I want to leave it open so I can read more of @LinearLineman's writing

I love an impassioned defense of one’s position, and I have a good deal of respect for @LinearLineman, since he makes his point without reverting to ad hominem insults and attacks.

We will probably always disagree, but I’d love to sit down and have a cup of coffee with him. 👍

Likewise! And with you too, actually; I'd love to understand your worldview better. It's sad that there's such a growing divide, and that we feel this frankly primitive urge to divide into tribes and throw rocks. If we can't have conversation, we can't solve a single damn thing in the world. I think the argument can be made that that's just as existential a threat as all the other ones currently plaguing us.

I agree. Understanding each other is key to accepting each other as we are.

LostInFoundation

“To divide and rule, is their old plan”

Ps: Michael, could you please leave them argue (as the people with power want) and go back to fix Loopy? 😉

NeuM

@LostInFoundation said:
“To divide and rule, is their old plan”

Ps: Michael, could you please leave them argue (as the people with power want) and go back to fix Loopy? 😉

Haha. There’s no hate here, just an exchange of ideas and opinions.

OnfraySin

Biden….left wing? JAJAJAJAJAJJAJAJJAAJJAJA.

Biden is right wing here in Europe. There is no left wing in USA.

Democrats are liberals and conservatives, no left wing. In fact, their ideas and politics are typical in the right spectrum here in Europe.

Vaya ida de olla que tenéis por Murrica, la ostia

Simon

@LinearLineman said:
I think if all right wingers were like @Neum we’d have a much better chance to preserve the values the majority of us cherish. >At least he sincerely believes what he is saying.

So did Hitler.

And no, I am not comparing our AB buddy @Neum or anyone else to Hitler.

Just making the (obvious) point that even baddies can sincerely believe in what they are saying. It is possible to "sincerely believe" in bad and awful things.

I think politicians on both sides say things they don't believe and support things they don't believe.

They call it "political expediency'.

knewspeak

One thing Trump did was shake the system to it’s core, it’s rotten core.

Simon

@knewspeak said:
One thing Trump did was shake the system to it’s core, it’s rotten core.

And that resulted in....?

tahiche

I was going to make a point about how social media, WhatsApp and the new platforms have caught democracy off-guard and made anomalies like Trump a reality. But then I remembered Hitler won the elections. To be clear, yes, I’m comparing them.

Simon

@tahiche said:
I was going to make a point about how social media, WhatsApp and the new platforms have caught democracy off-guard and made anomalies like Trump a reality. But then I remembered Hitler won the elections. To be clear, yes, I’m comparing them.

Trump's electoral advantage was being a reality TV celebrity. Hitler's electoral advantage was the arrival of The Great Depression.

And I'm not comparing them. You may not like Trump's policies or behavior but he is miles away from someone who introduced state sanctioned murder of millions of Jews.

zah7

@tahiche said:
I was going to make a point about how social media, WhatsApp and the new platforms have caught democracy off-guard and made anomalies like Trump a reality. But then I remembered Hitler won the elections. To be clear, yes, I’m comparing them.

Oh God, really? Because of the posts like these, people don’t take it seriously. Go and read more about Hitler.

LinearLineman

Hitler lost the election in 1932. Hindenburg won. But he gained so many seats that it propelled him to victory later on. However, it is worth positing that had the worldwide depression not come along the German people might not have rallied to him out of desperation.

Will the same dynamic take place in ‘22 and ‘24? We shall see. In any event, @simon, as far as I know Hitler did not claim the ‘32 election was rigged…. Unlike our own homegrown Hitler wannabe (and if you don’t think Trump would not be up for mass murder I’d give that some serious thought… not the Jews, of course,It doesn’t serve his political scheme. It was no problem for him, however, to lie about the seriousness of Covid. Many would say he’s responsible, by way of criminal negligence, for the death of tens, if not hundreds of thousands.

StudioES

If only he had fulfilled his childhood dream, of becoming an artist.

Soothing tune, btw. At least to me. Really helps with the tinnitus. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

Simon

@LinearLineman said:
It was no problem for him, however, to lie about the seriousness of Covid. Many would say he’s responsible, by way of criminal negligence, for the death of tens, if not hundreds of thousands.

Stupid or even dishonest handling of the COVID crisis by Trump (or many other world leaders) does not begin to equate with the building of concentration camps, gas chambers and the state sanctioned murder of millions of people.

It is only fair to praise or condem Trump by what he did - not by what he might do in your imagination.

sevenape

@ocelot said:
If only he had fulfilled his childhood dream, of becoming an artist.

Soothing tune, btw. At least to me. Really helps with the tinnitus. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

) THANK YOU!!!

tahiche

@Simon said:

@LinearLineman said:
It was no problem for him, however, to lie about the seriousness of Covid. Many would say he’s responsible, by way of criminal negligence, for the death of tens, if not hundreds of thousands.

Stupid or even dishonest handling of the COVID crisis by Trump (or many other world leaders) does not begin to equate with the building of concentration camps, gas chambers and the state sanctioned murder of millions of people.

It is only fair to praise or condem Trump by what he did - not by what he might do in your imagination.

He did lock kids in cages, separating them from their parents. That alone justifies the strongest condemnation.

Simon

@LinearLineman said:
Hitler lost the election in 1932. Hindenburg won. But he gained so many seats that it propelled him to victory later on. However, it is worth positing that had the worldwide depression not come along the German people might not have rallied to him out of desperation.

Yes, in the 1928 election the Nazi party got something like 15 seats out of 500+. They were a nothing party.

In the next election in 1930 they became the 2nd largest party in the country.

Without the Great Depression we might not have had Chancellor Hilter. And without "The Apprentice" we might not have had President Trump.

As Agent Dale Cooper said, "It's a strange world".

knewspeak

@Simon said:

@knewspeak said:
One thing Trump did was shake the system to it’s core, it’s rotten core.

And that resulted in....?

Awakening, for some, sleep for Joe.

Simon

@tahiche said:
He did lock kids in cages, separating them from their parents. That alone justifies the strongest condemnation.

Yeah, that was bad.

But it is never as simple as it sounds:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/kids-in-cages-debate-trump-obama/2020/10/23/8ff96f3c-1532-11eb-82af-864652063d61_story.html

Simon

@knewspeak said:

@Simon said:

@knewspeak said:
One thing Trump did was shake the system to it’s core, it’s rotten core.

And that resulted in....?

Awakening, for some, sleep for Joe.

And defeat for Trump.

knewspeak

@Simon said:

@knewspeak said:

@Simon said:

@knewspeak said:
One thing Trump did was shake the system to it’s core, it’s rotten core.

And that resulted in....?

Awakening, for some, sleep for Joe.

And defeat for Trump.

Thankfully as America would have descended into chaos.

Simon

@sevenape said:
So I’m Covid positive and I did this on my first day off work.

Glad you are not in hospital. Hope you recover soon.

LinearLineman

@simon, what you say about judging a person by what he does and what he might do is logical when you are dealing with a mentally stable individual. However, with both Hitler and Trump we are dealing with a psychopath. It’s not my opinion. The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump was published at the very beginning of Trump’s presidency. 27 psychiatrists weighing in on the Narcissist In Chief. But if it means anything, my exwife gf is a clinical psychologist and there is no doubt in her mind as to his diagnosis.

I could list some of the things Mary Trump, his cousin, also a clinical psychologist (whom he defrauded out of millions). She entitled her first book “Too Much And Never Enough - Donald Trump, The World’s Most Dangerous Man” (perhaps the title is enough?)but I’m not sure any of this matters to your sense of fair mindedness.

It is reported that he told “his” generals to shoot the protestors in Oregon. When they resisted he suggested maybe they could just shoot them in the legs…apocraphyl? How many details does one need combined with basic common sense to determine that a man who could ‘murder someone on 5th Avenue” and believes he would be elected (re-elected!!) might be slightly off the beam?

Trump has regularly demonstrated he lacks the human qualities of remorse, empathy and guilt. When asked if he needs to ask god’s forgiveness for anything, the self asserted bible reader who can’t quote a single passage, answers emphatically “No”. Plus, he doesn’t like dogs. (Lol, they can sense his insanity, maybe?) One of his worst insults is “like a dog”. There is a pyshological platitude… when someone tells you he is a bad person… believe it.

I’m afraid your “let’s play fair” stance is like confronting a rabid dog, frothing at the mouth and extending your hand with two Alka Seltzer tablets thinking it merely has an upset stomach. Kind, for sure, but most likely will end badly. When the dog demonstrates he is rabid… believe it.

I must add that the scores of Stop The Steal Trump sychophants like Cruz, McCarthy Gaetz, Cawthorne and Hawley are not psychopaths… neither were Goering, Speer and Eichman. They are the cowardly liars and self seeking deniers who enabled (enable) a madman.