Loopy Pro is here!

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Michael_R_Grant

@0tolerance4silence said:
I disagree... this model has hardly anything to do with how desktop apps sell.

It’s exactly like the Bitwig model, though.

Michael_R_Grant

@tja said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@tja said:
@espiegel123 I figured it out, how to record the MIDI from the MIDI instance of Animoog Z into Atom 2 and then send this MIDI to the audio instance of Animoog Z!

It does not sound the same, so this would be a case for better recording the audio.
But that seems to be a common problem with Animoog... was probably the wrong App for such a test.

Why not just add Animoog Z as an Audio Unit input, and record a loop while playing it? You do seem to be massively over complicating things!

I want the MIDI 😅
I'm a MIDI-type.
I want to later try different presets and different Apps with that same MIDI.
The audio is only of temporary interest to me.

Fair enough! If you’re into Animoog Z, you’ll definitely want the MIDI Tape Recorder app that’s coming very soon, as it’s the first one ever to accurately record MPE data and be able to play it back. There’s a thread about it here: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/48334/midi-tape-recorder-plugin-beta-test-sample-accurate-mpe-open-source#latest

wim

@tja said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@tja said:
@espiegel123 I figured it out, how to record the MIDI from the MIDI instance of Animoog Z into Atom 2 and then send this MIDI to the audio instance of Animoog Z!

It does not sound the same, so this would be a case for better recording the audio.
But that seems to be a common problem with Animoog... was probably the wrong App for such a test.

Why not just add Animoog Z as an Audio Unit input, and record a loop while playing it? You do seem to be massively over complicating things!

I want the MIDI 😅
I'm a MIDI-type.
I want to later try different presets and different Apps with that same MIDI.
The audio is only of temporary interest to me.

But I could fix the problem with changing the Quantization option in Atom 2.

Atom 2 doesn’t properly record and play back Animoog Z midi output in any host.

The new midi recorder from Geert Bevin will record it reliably, but, no editing.

Michael_R_Grant

Btw, I’m happy to report that Loopy Pro is sitting on 5 stars from 10 reviews in the UK. I think I’ll wait to deploy my review until we get the first boneheaded misunderstanding the ‘subscription’ here. The iOS Music Facebook group has been a total bin fire this week!

oat_phipps

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@tja said:
@espiegel123 I figured it out, how to record the MIDI from the MIDI instance of Animoog Z into Atom 2 and then send this MIDI to the audio instance of Animoog Z!

It does not sound the same, so this would be a case for better recording the audio.
But that seems to be a common problem with Animoog... was probably the wrong App for such a test.

Why not just add Animoog Z as an Audio Unit input, and record a loop while playing it? You do seem to be massively overcomplicating things!

Some of the ways people go about complicating things makes it seem like everyone here is an antagonist out to ruin the developer, or at least drive (s)he mad by thinking of cruel and esoteric use cases that break the app.

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oat_phipps

@tja said:

@oat_phipps said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@tja said:
@espiegel123 I figured it out, how to record the MIDI from the MIDI instance of Animoog Z into Atom 2 and then send this MIDI to the audio instance of Animoog Z!

It does not sound the same, so this would be a case for better recording the audio.
But that seems to be a common problem with Animoog... was probably the wrong App for such a test.

Why not just add Animoog Z as an Audio Unit input, and record a loop while playing it? You do seem to be massively overcomplicating things!

Some of the ways people go about complicating things makes it seem like everyone here is an antagonist out to ruin the developer, or at least drive (s)he mad by thinking of cruel and esoteric use cases that break the app.

It's hardly esoteric to run a Synth over MIDI 😅😅😅

Yeah man, I was just sayin it happens a lot here, the complicating. just out on a stoned tangent at 330 in the morning. Don’t mind me. Deedle deet doo

Foleslaw

Is there a way to buy Loopy Pro (unlocked) as a gift for someone? I see I can buy as a gift paid apps (my other choice would be Drambo) but am not sure if maybe there is a way for Loopy and it’s IAP.

McD

I'm thinking of physical pricing models that people can relate to... and I thought about
Modular products. You buy a base unit (with support of course) and can buy additional modules as they are made available. It's really just a roadmap of IAP's effectively. Suitable
fixes are embedded within the base or IAP updates.

To earn that 2nd year module revenue @michael has to craft an IAP of value to trigger people to update, This does force a delivery schedule on the developer which is NOT traditionally reliable. It effectively means code is probably ready but it gets held back to fit
the calendar of the social contract implied.

Anyway, people are used to buying base products with optional subsequent accessory upgrades. I guess in year 3 we see if you can skip a year. I'll go check out the text on the "Working Copy" app for their language around the pricing model as it rolls out over time.
Maybe they are 2-3 years in or maybe they use a "ship when its ready model" as we're used to.

In this vase the base product was a year late according to the First Look thread. But @Micheal kept adding new features and that means more integration testing. IN software development circles they call this "scope creep". In Userland we call this "extra cool stuff"
at the same price... disregarding the fact that we could have mastered the basic Looper and slowly learned new features which solves the "learning curve" problem. Teach a man to bait a hook... then teach him to drop the hook in the water... then teach him to sense activity on the line... then teach him that analogies make readers fell like your treating them like children.

Where was I? ah yes... "Working Copy" app description text. Any users of this app?

OK. Here's how Working Copy explains their pricing model:

Working Copy is a free download but you need to unlock pro features such as the ability to push commits and manage more than 5 repositories. There is no venture capital, large company or ads funding development and your support through in-app purchase directly sustains development.

When you pay to unlock you get permanent access to all pro features at the time of purchase as well as any added the next year. When 12 months have passed you keep all existing pro features but any new ones introduced are locked until you renew your unlock.

The user base is software developers that store their source code in a Git repository... so they get that software "support" is not free and needs a funding source. But they still show similar complaints about greedy schemes to extract money after buying an app. So, that just comes with educating the customer to appreciate new business models, like the early days of cable TV when people expecting TV content to be free but riddled with ads. Sell them on "no ads" and no "Broadcast Codes" which means more nudity and violence for a price. "Nudity you say? How much?".

@Michael just has to code the Music Production equivalent of nudity... problem solved. And get enough customers to make the first year achieve payback for the last few years of coding effort sunk into this project.

As a community... we are going to make this model work or we are going to
just have 1,000 reverb variations in the store.

Everything we can control about Loopy Pro is now a matter of "user education". Teach somebody to use it. Small bites that lead to satiated customers.

MadGav

@tja said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@0tolerance4silence said:
I disagree... this model has hardly anything to do with how desktop apps sell.

It’s exactly like the Bitwig model, though.

You may not "see" this, when there is just a "new version" of the App to which you can upgrade at discount price.

This give a more clear feeling of this being a free decision.

Thinking about this, maybe it would be better to do exactly this:

Don't talk about 12 months and bug-fixes and upgrade prices.

Just sell the App and offer a new version of the App (version 2, version 3,...) in the next year(s) - together with an upgrade bundle for those who bought an earlier version.

Maybe people can understand this better?
It is nearly the same thing, but people would not get bug fixes for their older version for free.
And people who recently bought may be p*ssed, when shortly after a new version arrives.

Problems over problems 😅

The bundle model only works once!

I buy the app V1, then the year after I buy the V1+V2 bundle. Then the next year V3 is released - but as I already own a bundle containing V2 I cannot buy a V2+V3 bundle…

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McD

FYI: Working Copy IAP listing:

In-App Purchases
Pro Unlock                   $19.99
Pro Unlock trial             $0.00
Pro Unlock trial             $0.00
Pro Unlock trial             $0.00
Pro Upgrade                  $9.99
Support Development $1.99
Pro Upgrade                  $9.99
Pro Upgrade                  $9.99
Pro Upgrade                  $9.99
Unlock transfer             $0.00

I think they are 6-7 years into this product pricing model but that's a guess.
"Support Development" is a straight up TIP jar product, I suspect and you might be able to buy them at will. Maybe @tja knows if that's the case.

Krupa

@wim said:

@tja said:

@Krupa said:
Will the twelve month thing be a universal/global period (or 2022-23), or per user? The latter seems almost impossible for Michael to coordinate, especially allowing for bug fixes, even early seems like something that will get administratively worse for him as time goes on… I hope the model works out for him though, fully deserved as this thing is incredible!

Right, that was not made clear too!

Assuming it is implemented like in Working Copy, it is individual.
Meaning, you get all features from the moment you buy and the next 12 months.

I think that’s correct. I’m not sure of the mechanics, but I’m sure it doesn’t require intervention from Michael. Working Copy is the app he modeled this after.

Wow, I don’t envy him that task, sounds well tricky!

tahiche

@ronnieb said:

@AudioGus said:

@ronnieb said:

@AudioGus said:

@gregsmith said:

@AudioGus said:

@gregsmith said:

@AudioGus said:

@lukesleepwalker said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@Kashi said:

@suitsus said:

@Kashi said:

You can set quantisation per individual loop so I think you can achieve what you want. Suggest you download and try before you buy!

Ok thanks I’ll look into that. Do you mean there might be a “no quantisation “ option which is what I will need. I realise that wanting things to NOT sync up with each other is anathema to most looping/sequencing software/hardware, and will confuse some forum members, but that really is what I want!

Yes, you can set loops to be free rather than 'Phase Locked'. Also, you should explore the record and play quantisation options to configure how you want to start and stop loops. You can record an FX tail after the loop ends, and an intro before the main body of the loop starts, too!

Yeah, all these things! It's simply amazing how many options you have to start/stop loops. Download and try for free?

Does the retrospective looper let you select the length of the uhhh, captured retrospection, after you have already been retrospecting, ala the Endlesss advanced looper setting?

I ask because I don't want to be blow my 7 day trial just yet.

You can indeed set the length of the loop beforehand. Just swipe up on the donut and set it there. It works beautifully with 1 bar, but I’ve had some problems with 4 bars for some reason.

I know you can set it beforehand but that is not what I am asking. In Endlesss you can choose to capture either the previous 1,2,4 or 8 bars on the fly, simply by tapping the waveform in one of the four quadrants. This is the best thing about Endlesss for me and why I would still use it over any other looper.

Only being able to set the length beforehand kind of limits the free flow creative potential of retrospective looping.

Oh I see! I’m not sure. It seems to capture a bar if you don’t set the length beforehand and there doesn’t seem to be a way to lengthen it that I can see.

Someone else might know different.

Edit: just seen @espiegel123 replied above

Yes, but I think he assumed I was asking the same thing that you thought, size of the overall buffer and not wether or not you could capture a portion of that buffer on the fly, again ala Endlesss. I assume at this point that it cannot be done.

Not able to test atm but I think you could just setup 4 buttons to retrospective record for 1/2/4/8 bars no?
Or what I have is separate clips for each length. I am certain if you spend some time with the widgets you could figure out a way to implement this that works for you.

I think that is still different though because then you are still locked in at that point to committing to filling X bars.

Not if you’re using retrospective recording which is what endless is doing. My super basic bare bones auv3 template kinda does this. The orange clips are standard recording, the yellow clips are set to retrospective record, top row has specific lengths and the bottom just follow the master cycle. Is this not similar to what you’re looking for?

How do you set specific lengths for retrospective recording?. Can’t find it anywhere. Count out options are grayed out when choosing retrospective.
Cheers

sigma79

Can you route cc and midi ch to any and different, au parameters?

Not just via knob controller but manually set numbers, if an app is pointing at another app?

ChimmyChungaFace

Nice release... I think... Really could use a manual. Trial and error only goes so far.

ongofongo

Short question, because I haven’t found any clear infos yet: if I'm recording only through the internal microphone without headphones, there will always be sound from the other previously recorded loops playing in the background of the new loop, right? Figured, I'd ask before further banging my head against the settings…

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RUST( i )K

@Michael said:
Loopy Pro is a live-looper. And a sampler. And a sequencer. And a very capable AUv3 Audio Unit host. And a DAW. And an AUv3 Audio Unit.

You get the idea. Loopy Pro is deep. But it's also designed to be friendly, and a great deal of fun.

You can set up Loopy Pro to work however you do, with features like hands-free looping with count-in, count-out and automatic loop detection; or "free" looping, where you can choose on-the-fly how long to make loops. There's even retrospective recording, where you can lock in a loop after the fact.

There's extensive MIDI controller support, including built-in support for the Launchpad and the APC40 mk2, and effortless MIDI Learn for setting up your controllers.

You can also drag-and-drop audio straight onto loops in Loopy Pro, with sophisticated tempo and pitch adjustments, and use Loopy Pro as a clip launcher, with all kinds of options for song sectioning.

The built-in mixer lets you set up insert and send effects for every channel in your project, and load AUv3 Audio Unit instruments, effects, and MIDI sequencers.

And there's a built-in sequencer, for arranging songs, and even performing them live, totally automated and hands-free.

There's also a great deal still to come.

So, what are you reading this for? Go take Loopy Pro for a spin – there's a 7-day free trial just waiting for you.

https://apps.apple.com/app/loopy-pro-looper-daw-sampler/id1492670451

Have fun!

See also JP's rather brilliant tutorial:

Let me say this and deal with the consequences on here. It needs to be said.

THIS APP IS A $100 APP.

That is all.

uncledave

@szczyp said:
MIDI works as you said, 5 stars and review written.
Maybe in the future session midi network will be seen as midi port? At least on my iPad it is hidden in LP.
AUM can use network midi port, LoopyPro not (yet).

As a workaround, you could use another app to receive Network MIDI and forward it to a port LP can see. Possible apps are AUM, Audiobus, MidiFire, probably others.

gregsmith

@RUST( i )K said:

@Michael said:
Loopy Pro is a live-looper. And a sampler. And a sequencer. And a very capable AUv3 Audio Unit host. And a DAW. And an AUv3 Audio Unit.

You get the idea. Loopy Pro is deep. But it's also designed to be friendly, and a great deal of fun.

You can set up Loopy Pro to work however you do, with features like hands-free looping with count-in, count-out and automatic loop detection; or "free" looping, where you can choose on-the-fly how long to make loops. There's even retrospective recording, where you can lock in a loop after the fact.

There's extensive MIDI controller support, including built-in support for the Launchpad and the APC40 mk2, and effortless MIDI Learn for setting up your controllers.

You can also drag-and-drop audio straight onto loops in Loopy Pro, with sophisticated tempo and pitch adjustments, and use Loopy Pro as a clip launcher, with all kinds of options for song sectioning.

The built-in mixer lets you set up insert and send effects for every channel in your project, and load AUv3 Audio Unit instruments, effects, and MIDI sequencers.

And there's a built-in sequencer, for arranging songs, and even performing them live, totally automated and hands-free.

There's also a great deal still to come.

So, what are you reading this for? Go take Loopy Pro for a spin – there's a 7-day free trial just waiting for you.

https://apps.apple.com/app/loopy-pro-looper-daw-sampler/id1492670451

Have fun!

See also JP's rather brilliant tutorial:

Let me say this and deal with the consequences on here. It needs to be said.

THIS APP IS A $100 APP.

That is all.

Once the YouTube vids build up people will realise how deep this is.

And when it has midi and automation 🤯

McD

@RUST( i )K said:
THIS APP IS A $100 APP.

After 5 years that's what you will end up paying... It's an "Installment Plan". Just 6 easy payments. Tip your server.

uncledave

@tja said:
@Michael I made 41 (?) screenshots from the In-App Tutorial and created a PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/re7kvo4wktz68qk/Loopy_Pro_Tutorial.pdf?dl=0
or
https://www.dropbox.com/s/re7kvo4wktz68qk/Loopy_Pro_Tutorial.pdf?dl=1

That may help onboarding people until there is a full manual.

OK for you?
Add it to your website?
The Wiki?

I could not attach it here, as it was too large 😅

Very nice job. Thank you @tja.

McD

@tja said:
The Wiki?

Yes. Wiki content for sure.

To reach the largest audience...

Someone should make a screen recording of the PDF slide show while readying the text boxes. Upload that video to Youtube (or another service) and you'd get a dozen "Like's" and some SPAM comments in just a few hours. Suggest the viewer stop the video and play with the newly acquired knowledge and press Play to get more.

I think we're training the next generation to avoid reading because it doesn't keep the mind alert anymore. The mind wants a steady stream of stimulation. We have re-programmed consciousness for a new generation with these addictive electronic devices.

Implants can't be far off.

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