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Comments
Maybe try panning them left and right some.
Also, are you using the same input from your guitar interface? Some interfaces that split the signal into two available inputs have some phasing of their own. If you're putting 1 and 2 into the two AUM channels, try putting 1 into both AUM channels.
There are valid technical reasons for this. We tend to think of filters as they affect the amplitude frequency distribution of a signal, but every filter affects the phase of the signal as well as the amplitude. This is not just the simple 180° effect from inverting a signal, but varying amounts at different frequencies. For example, a 12 dB/octave low-pass filter produces 90° phase shift at the cutoff, 180° about 3 octaves higher. (Higher order filters produce even more phase shift.) This works like a delay that varies with frequency. Since every tone control, EQ, etc. is just a complex filter, the different amp outputs will have different amounts of phase shift at different frequencies. So, when they are added, they don't add up properly, and the result will be weaker. Not sure how to fix this, except to try to tweak the tone controls.
Also, I hope you have turned off the cab models in both amps. That could really mess things up. You should route the mixed output to a single cab model.
@wim yeah, I have the same input go to each channel from the Xtone Pro audio interface.
I kind of wanna do the same thing we can do in Bias FX where the signal is split into to separate parallel channels and they each have an amp with their own Cab. It's like creating a brand new hybrid amp!
@uncledave thanks for the info!
Yes. That might be more difficult with Tonex because it's an amp profiler, fitting the parameters of its model to match the sound of a given amp. We don't know what the internal model looks like, but it's unlikely to resemble any amp diagram you or I might draw, and it likely has a lot of parameters.
To try to solve your problem, you could try adjusting the tone controls of one of the amps. Unfortunately, you're stuck with the tone settings from the original amp. You can only try to modify from there.
I'm going to see how Bias FX2 does it. I have Bias FX2 but really love ToneX and Nembrini the most!
Among other things, turn off reverb on both amps and add any reverb post-recombination. If trying to recreate the sound of two independent amps each with its own cab, leaving the cab on is ok.
You might want to see if a completely wet VERY short delay in front of one f the amps helps. Adjust it in extremely tiny increments to see if a ms or few makes a difference.
I found the Invert Phase option the Stereo Processing menu of AUM under Signal Processing. Will try that.
Guys I have a question regarding AUM output. When I tapped on the very bottom of the last channel it has a choice for Hardware output. I have Xtone L+R, Xtone L and Xtone R.
If I select Xtone L+R, does that mean my signal going out my interface via the XLR output, is the stereo signal combined to mono? Or am I missing signal? I wish there was a way to test it.
I added in AUM an option on the very last output channel to turn signal to Mono and the sound became louder. Perhaps this is why I was feeling the signal was not as thick? Will test some more, and will check info on the Xtone Pro XLR out. Will check if its a SUM of both L&R outputs. If so, then I might not need to add the stereo to mono option in AUM.
That might do it, if one of the amp models happens to include a 180° phase shift. It may not help if the problem is the frequency-dependent phase shift I described. Good luck!
Phase inversion is generally for cases where the phase of a signal was flipped or if you want to null a signal by mixing it with the phase inverted version of itself.
Please keep in mind that standard phase adjustment really only is intended for handling the same unmodified signal that was recorded by different pathways resulting a signal to be out of phase with what should be an identical signal.
When you pass a signal through two different processes, those standard phase adjustment tools are no longer relevant.
Thanks!
I still wonder if AUM Stereo out L+R means that the stereo out is Summed? For my output channel I have that choice as well as separate L out mono and Right out mono.
Do you guys think it is summing L&R in the first choice?
It should be easy to test. Pan your guitar all the way to one side. Then choose the opposite side as the destination.
So if I do that, then if I hear sound on the opposite side it means it is summing the Stereo to Mono as it would be comi.g out both sides right?
Yes
Wait do the pan test on my external mixer or in AUM’S output channel?
Since you want to know what comes out of your interface when you choose R or L only, judge by the output to your speakers..,assuming you have interface outputs hard panned
Ok, so I inserted a Pan node in AUM and when I pan hard left, I get no sound in my earphones. Only when I pan right or center. I think that also explains why the sound was fuller when I insert a Stereo to Mono node in that same output channel in the picture. So yeah, this proves that I was only hearing half my tone! Not the full sound. And since I'm going out mono from my audio interface via the XLR out, that's a mono out. So the sound must be summed first if only wanting to go out mono via XLR.
Stereo L+R means it sends the Left and Right signals to the Left and Right speakers, in stereo, not summed. The other Mono modes send either the Left or Right internal signal to both speakers. AUM works this way with all outputs, even the internal speakers.
Sweet! So then it does confirm it then. I was only sending out half my signal no wonder I had to boost up my drives! Now with the Stereo tobMono node in place along with the Pan node, I can definitely see my levels increased! I will now have to go back and re-tweak my delays etc!!
@Tones4Christ : I just did a quick test. If I have a stereo signal and choose the Left output of my interface as the destination, I don't get a summed signal. It sends out the left channel of the signal to the left channel not a summed signal. Likewise with the right.
My test, I had a guitar in the left channel and silence in the right channel. If I chose the Left channel of my interface as the destination, I get the guitar. If I choose the right output, I get silence -- which is what I would expect.
My interface is connected to my mixer so that the outputs are hard-panned.
Right! Exactly only thing is, for some weird reason since I know I'm only using a single input for my guitar, I know that this signal is mono coming in. Now, when I route it to say channel 1 in AUM, it stays mono but because say, the reverb and delays are mono input but Stereo output, I figured, AUM was automatically creating a Stereo output.
That is why I always selected L+R on the hardware out of my output channel in AUM. But in reality, it was not outputting a Stereo signal. It's just that I had it centered so of course it seemed to be Stereo.
However, when I did the panning test with the pan node, that's when I saw that in reality only one side was going out.
So by inserting the Stereo to Mono node, now I can definitely hear the sound on both Left and right outs of the output channel.
Kind of weird, I never had to think about this but the signal was not as string as I knew it should be. Now it is nice and strong and registering at unity on my external mixer.
By the way, I finally got Stratosphere reverb! It trulybis something special!!! Especially when you add it to shimmer delays! Oh man, I highly recommend it! Best $5 spent!
fwiw, some Nembrini virtual amps invert phase, and others don't. so AUM's invert phase could largely fix the hollow sound if the amp sims differ this way.
Cool! Thanks will try this out tomorrow. Had Togo
help my elderly neighbor who fell.
I don’t think phase inversion will help a lot in this case, like @espiegel123 explains very well. I had a similar situation where I wanted to comnine a live-recorded amp of a cigar guitar box with a new “reamped” amp sim version. Big phase issues. The sound would thin out dramatically, but it wasn’t linear, the phase would come and go. So I inverted the phase and that only meant the phase issue would now happen on different places. No phase-align plugin would help, like @espiegel123 explained the usual case is the same signal recorded on 2 different mikes, most commonly on drum recordings (close mic/overheads for example). Doesn’t really work with processed audio the same way.
Thanks!
So far sound is really happening! I added to different ToneX amps in series on same channel!! Since I'm going out mono. It sounds amazing!!!! I had a 64 Vox AC30 TB go into Matchless C30! Sounds incredible! I did add in AUM a node for HP and LP filter. Helped clean things up a lot!
Really wish you guys could hear it. Will try to do a short audio clip.
Well, finally figured out why my amp was sounding thin. And it indeed was a phase issue. In AUM there's a phase inversion node option. As soon as I added that to the channel, Bam! The sound came in full. The reason was that I was runming a dual amp setup in AUM. So the Vox AC30TB was out of phase with the other channel running the Fender Pro Sonic Amp. This totally almost made me go bald lol!!!
The good news is that now my setup on AUM is so awesome, I really need to dive deeper on recreating it on Loopy Pro! So I can have more visual cues of what is on or off as my midi pedal doesn't show me what's active or not.
Anyway, hope this helps any folks out there not getting good tone with their ToneX setup.