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Anyone into the WOO here? UFOs etc?
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I am an engineer and applied mathematician with over 30 years in the field after completing my postdoc. I work in non-imaging illumination optics of displays (primarily) and components (indicators, light rings, etc). I also work in optical scattering theory and measurements.
I adhere to the scientific method.
Yes there are unexplained phenomena observed in the atmosphere. That does not imply aliens, though. It can be visual manifestations of natural phenomena, issues with imaging optics and signal processing, or human-created on the ground or in the atmosphere, either intentionally or debris falling from unstable orbits. The scientific method requires keeping an open mind, trying to use the process of elimination, evidence, and known theory, and not drawing any conclusions from observations that remain unexplained. It is tough to accept “I don’t know” as an answer, but that is what I do.
The same is true for ghosts. There is no evidence they are real. However, sleep paralysis, waking dreams, and somnambulance are known medical phenomena. My daughter has the former and knows how to recognize it even when it is terrifying. It seems to have subsided considerably as she has grown up.
The Amazing Randy’s prize for ESP remains unawarded.
I apply the scIentific method also to the concept of a soul, gods, demigods, angels, heaven, hell, homeopathy, chiropractic, reiki, astrology, various forms of numerology and “sacred geometry,” and other fantasies.
Sorry for snipping out most of that. It was excellent in my opinion.
Also, having worked with vision scientists on various types of displays, I can confirm that the human 3D vision system is not reliable at all, especially in the periphery. Our brains fill things in from memory, for example. It is possible to make changes to objects in the periphery and the vision system not see the change.
Wait. How can you cite scientific method and yet dismiss all those things as fantasies in the absence of proof? Or am I misunderstanding you?
No worries chief, getting drunk here anyway, and most likely ramping up the weirdness to tweak the debunkers titties.
Agreed.
One theory knocking about, is that some of the flying objects being witnessed are actual alien entities (or Earthly species we have yet to discover - there’s a lot of ‘em about), rather than piloted craft, due to their ability to shape-shift. Who can say there aren’t organisms living and floating around the upper atmosphere - we’ve only recently discovered life in volcanic vents under the sea, and at the bottom of the ice in the arctic, maybe all these sightings have a more physical, scientific explanation?
Not saying this is something I believe, but when there’s no obvious explanation, sometimes we need to go through and rule out all the alternatives first, to reach a definitive conclusion.
I think you haven’t properly understood the conversation I was having with Mr Gavinski.
Mr Gavin wanted physical evidence, an object, aside from the tens of thousands of photographic, video, radar, visual sightings of UFO’s available for over half a century before he would take them seriously as being of non-terrestrial origin. Religion and faith has also been dropped in as an explanation for those that are open-minded about the phenomena.
Hence my examples of a round planet, and black holes as things that most of us acknowledge as being real, without recourse to faith, or the requirement of a physical object we can hold and look at.
Do you seriously think all of those things have not been comprehensively checked and ruled out by the teams of military, scientific, technical and government officials that have studiously investigated cases that are then marked ‘unexplained’?
Right, so you’re ruling out intelligent life across trillions of potentially habitable planets because they don’t have technology to receive, decode, and respond to our radio signals? Gotcha.
We’ve been ‘space travelling’ for about 60 years, and only relatively locally at that. I’m no scientist, but I’m guessing there’s still a bit more to learn.
So you would class belief in black holes as a ‘religion’ then?
Tell the Pentagon lad, they’re spending billions trying to work this out! Oh, and the associated visual sightings and radar confirmations….religion, drugs, not used to the dark, mental illness…probably.
@Gribs said:
But it’s great you have such an open mind about these things!
Haha don't worry they know by now
In this case yes, I'm more experienced than the Pentagon or Military to look at video. I have over 25 years experience as an imaging expert in film and video and work with every type of image you can think of trawling through BBC archives and manipulating images and working with digital algorithms and I could spot it straight away the signs of camera anomalies. The pilots will have no experience with this so are just recording what they immediately see with little experience of any of that.
They would be asking people with similar experience as me to look at footage and I bet there loads of other video experts who have already given the same opinions too.
Ah, you're no fun!
What was the X Files slogan...?
"I want to believe".
You could add "whether it is true or not".
Many of these things are sexy, fun and interesting. Not like boring old scientific method.
Give me a demon appearing at midnight in a graveyard over a white coated academic with a test tube any day.
I presume you’ve had access to, and analysed the full-length, raw cockpit footage - not just the highly compressed, edited and repeatedly copied YouTube video, to dismiss the Pentagon’s findings?
This is an interesting debate. I'm curious @monz0id or anyone else who believes that aliens visit the earth -- are you open to being disproven?
That is to say, if there is evidence that such observed phenomena or recordings are actually not aliens, would you be ok with that? Since these videos or experiences are being researched supposedly by credible scientists, what if there is evidence to show that they were misperceptions of the human psyche?
Or are these recordings or recollections proof enough?
Correlation is not evidence. Belief in something as true doesn't make it true. As mentioned by @Gavinski @cfour @Carnbot and others, human perception and memory can be flawed and fooled, and recordings can be edited and manipulated. The stories of UFOs in themselves can't be evidence of a reality, just like the mystical visions of gods, demons, ghosts, etc. If they are proof enough, that is faith and a belief but not necessarily reality.
Every one has a right to believe in things, but in this world, people believe a lot of things based on hearsay and supposed evidence. Unfortunately, the lines between ufos/aliens/miracles/visions/god/conspiracy theories are overlapping and blurred, but many believe the things in between.
Beliefs in things are a manifestation of the time we live in. Before the last 100 or so years, how much belief was there in UFOs, aliens etc? Did banshees, ghosts, angels or other supernatural boogeymen get replaced by aliens? It's highly likely. Are UFOs primarily a western phenomenon, since traditional religion has largely faded and science fiction has become a part of pop culture?
Oh no, I have understood everything. You equate our understanding of black holes (based on the laws of gravity and mathematics) with UFO sightings (based on wishful thinking). But hey, sure, no physical object there
Presumption fallacy. If it is "unexplained" it does not mean it is aliens. It could still be lights, drones, etc
ROFL. Straw man fallacy X2
My point was that sending some sort of frequency is a faster, cheaper, and infinitely better way to make contact than just going for a ride for trillions of miles. So it does not matter whether they have interpreted our signals or not; it kind of makes sense to avoid flying that distance if you can avoid it. Kind of what we are doing, and compared to these guys we are not that clever right? Or we did beat them on this one? Damn aliens, they think they are so smart but never thought of sending light or radio signals.
And regardless of that, this is what I wrote before:
"I do believe the chances of life (in the sense of an organism being able to replicate and metabolize) in the Universe are high though, it is a very big Universe. The chances of "intelligent" life, well, not that high"
So I do actually believe there is a chance that alien life does exist (or has existed, or will exist), even though the chances of intelligent life are perhaps not very high. What I also mentioned and you make no reference to is that a) it took us 3 billion plus years to evolve. These aliens have to have evolved, lucky us, simultaneously. But wait, most "habitable" planets we know of are damn far away. Some are hundreds if not thousands of light years away. How are they traveling? Also, if their planet is 200 light years away, it means they are living 200 years in the past from our perspective. Again, when you start adding all these things together is when things get messy. Intelligent life, travel capacity for thousand of years. And all that to come here for a while in some remote area when there is only one or two people looking. Never in the middle of Manhattan or Mexico City. They sure are shy. And then they go. Where to? You seem to favor other dimensions. Sounds reasonable, where else could they go in their fast spaceships?
It does not matter for how long we have been traveling. It is not just about that. Even by methods we are not even close to engineering, that are purely theoretical, it would take us a thousand years to get to the closest "habitable" planet, which is Proxima Centauri b. It has an insane amount of radiation by the way
WHAT?!?! ROFL. Biggest non-sequitur in history.
OK, I am not sure by now if you are trolling or are so immersed into believing this that it feels like discussing with Jehovah's Witnesses.
I am done discussing this in any case as we are running in circles. I hope George Soros and the Reptilians are not angry at your for discovering their secret
Peace & I hope you are not offended. If you love those theories you mentioned more power to you. It would be awesome if that was the case and aliens were visiting us, I will not deny that.
I'm really not interested in seeing any more footage like that because they are clearly naturally caused artifacts. But if you're not interested in expert opinions and real explanations and just want to confirm a belief then it doesn't matter what anyone says.
I would love it as much as anyone if there was some real strong evidence and I'm not trying to put down anyone's belief. It would be great if anything genuine comes up.
Surprised no one has mentioned weather balloons, Venus and swamp gas as viable explanations!
This topic has become very entertaining 😄
What is extraordinary evidence, is this a legal or scientific form of evidence. There is just evidence, stop with the ‘woo’.
The paradox of Fermi’s paradox.
https://thedebrief.org/the-paradox-of-fermis-paradox/
We’ve been sending radio waves for years never heard a thing back, speed of light, that distance, you quote scientific methodology. Do the maths. Incredible
How do camera anomalies appear simultaneously on radar?
Bingo!
I’m certainly open to explanations, but I believe most skeptics start from the starting point ‘it’s not aliens’ thus bringing ‘aliens’ into the phenomenon, instead of looking at the unexplained, with multiple possibilities of explanation.
I think you need to do the math. Do you know what electromagnetic radio waves are? At what speed they travel? Since when we are producing them? Now imagine a civilization 4 to 8 light years away. Are there complications? Sure, the strength of the signal may be insignificant. But compared to traveling those distances, well, it is rather easier. Do the math of how long it would take for signals like those to go there and come back.
Now to my main point. Why haven’t “they” tried something similar? They could have been sending signals for thousands of years for all we know. Yet we have not heard anything. Incredible
Don’t confuse them too much.
It's just another plane in the distance which the gimbal has locked onto and it's an optical illusion in the camera that it's performing weird manouvers.
Whuddaboutthisone??
You said intelligent life is rare, now it’s 4 to 8 light years away, so many assumptions you chose, when it suits your Theory of Everything. BTW we are sending way too much rubbish in electromagnetic signals for an extraterrestrial civilisation to possibly make sense of, so maybe to understand us better, maybe they’d visit?
Radar from separate systems? Ship, aircraft?
What's the point for an alien species to randomly visit earth? Are we special as a species that advanced aliens should care for us? In the Bible, angels come to interfere in the affairs of the earth. Greek gods did the same. Is this just the same story?
I think you are misquoting me. I think it is rare, by no means impossible. For the sake of argument I am considering a civilization that is nearby. Would you agree that the further away a civilization is the more unlikely for us to contact them (or vice versa)? For the sake of argument and the benefit of those that do believe in such a thing I am using a civilization that is close by. My point being that even one that is located orbiting our nearest star outside the solar system would take us (and perhaps them) thousands of years to travel, and how much easier it would be to send electromagnetic signals as an example. If we are considering a civilization located 500 light years away well… things get pretty complicated. Not sure how we could explain those guys visiting us, so to me it was more reasonable to go for something closer to engage in this discussion. If it is 500 light years away I agree that my wee little electromagnetic waves are of little use, but even more so traveling with a spaceship.
I do not have a theory of everything at all, I think that generally speaking (probably not the case here though) the problem with believing with little evidence is that it might be used the wrong way, usually to make money, as you always have some enlightened figure that “knows the truth” and sells you books, a course, etc. In any case, they have not visited us, not in any concrete, meaningful way, which makes everything harder to believe. So all I am saying is, perhaps more robust evidence would be great. That is all my “theory of everything” as you call it entails.
But anyway, I really don’t mind too much about this whole UFO thing, and I even hope it would be true. I also love this forum and I feel I am starting to argue a bit too much, so I think I would prefer to leave it like that.
Exactly, it is like a cyberpunk version of religion
I don’t presume to know.
Imagine landing on a remote, island, you think deserted.
You notice smoke rising in this distance, then notice a pattern in that smoke.
Do you dismiss it out of hand as mere natural phenomenon.
Do you create a fire yourself and produce a pattern in response, hoping to somehow communicate.
Do you covertly follow the signal to determine what is making it.
Maybe do something else.