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Comments
I would be just as excited to see Keyscape on IOS as I was to get PianoTeq 8. For me PianoTeq is a “box of chocolate pianos” with the added benefit that they have 0 calories (no storage consumption) and I can change any aspect of the chocolate recipe like resonance, string length, “after blooming” (like the overtone sweep of a sitar string. I wanted the complete capability and with morphing, layering and note editing I can create new instruments from the provided instruments. It’s an acoustic synth and I’m praying more software designers explore the math to model more acoustic instruments and open the parameters up like Modartt does. SWAM doesn’t complete in that regard for letting me program the instrument to such extremes.
Of course, we all get to decide how to invest in these tools but you shouldn’t throw shade on IOS options by referencing Desktop apps that are not porting (yet). With TB storage and M Series Chips there’s no technical reason not to port. They just don’t believe we’d spend the money to own them. I hope “own the desktop” and get the IOS version free is very popular too. It brings over a whole army of serious musicians to the user base for IOS.
It depends on what you compare it to. My digital piano doesn’t sound exactly like an acoustic piano, even though it is meticulously sampled from an acoustic Yamaha grand piano. Any sampled piano software doesn’t sound exactly like the real thing either, but I think the main reason I think that is because I can’t feel the sound or hear exactly the same resonance or idiosyncrasies of certain registers that come with specific pianos.
To me Pianoteq sounds great on the top end, sometimes not quite full enough in the middle register, and occasionally makes me think the strings sound more plucked than hammered on the low end. Overall though I put that in perspective and think it sounds great for a modeled piano. I think it will get better with newer versions too, as every version I have owned sounds better than the last. Definitely not a bad piano by any means.
Couple things of note, the other instruments, imo, sound much better and waaaay closer to the real things. The pianos are fantastic, but the electric pianos, Pianet, steel pans, guitars, etc are even more amazing. Another big benefit is the amount of tweaking you can do. I love mangling the sound of acoustic instruments so that amount of parameter tweaking makes it perfect for what I want to do.
For piano I’ve actually been really enjoying the Just Piano app from GSI though I think that and Pianoteq are far and wide the best you can get on iOS. Nothing sounds quite like the real thing unfortunately so I’ve just learned to love what I have lol
main thing with pianoteq is the feel of playing that makes it fun to play and practise, bit like Quality real instruments. it seems a bit weird but feel is in many cases the main factor to encourage play over sound.
This is why I keep coming back to Pianoteq, even though I haven't actually sprung for the license just yet. But it's telling that I do keep using the demo version because I find it more expressive than the sampler/rompler options. I will likely bite the bullet if a Black Friday deal comes around.
I’m still in this boat. I’ve decided I’ll attempt to learn piano and I just love the expressiveness and how accurate velocity feels. Basically it sounds great and makes me want to play it. And the demo is very generous (so long as you stick to white keys!) Will definitely purchase at some point.
I feel the same way. The sampled pianos might sound better when recorded, but Pianoteq just feels good, like you’re playing a real instrument that responds to your touch. Especially on a hammer-action keyboard.
The sampled pianos just feel dead in comparison.
Echoing everyone else here on the feel as well. With Pianoteq it’s like you can feel the weight of the keys. No samples piano has every quite felt like that to me (Just Piano is close). As @mistercharlie said there’s a certain deadness and emptiness to sampled pianos and P8 doesn’t really have that.
Of course the sound of anything is a matter of personal taste, and no 2 acoustic pianos sound exactly the same. But I am very happy with this short improv I made. Note that I do own NI Komplete and love Noire too.
I'm really surprised by the overwhelming love and support that Pianoteq gets on this forum. In the real world Pianoteq is hated by about 1/2 of all piano players. Look for instance at the Piano Forum as an example.
I wanted to love Pianoteq and thought maybe version 8 would be it but I just cannot enjoy playing it.
The Grand D on the Just Piano app by GSI is superior x 5 times in my opinion. And its OK to disagree.
I went ahead an picked up “Just Piano” because I haven’t met a piano app I don’t want to own. I’m waiting for the first piano download which is 3.6GB in size. Funny story… my Cellular Data downloads 4X faster than my Wi-Fi. Switching between the two options did not kill the download unlike my dreaded Colussus Piano downloads which topped out at 12GB and would die if I even closed the app window and re-start everytime.
Yeah I’m a big fan of Just Piano. I love the other instruments in P8 and love the amount of control and how weird you can make it sound, but if I want a piano sound, I use Just Piano. That’s why I didn’t do the piano when I got my unlock license.
Ha it downloaded faster over 5G for me as well. Curious about your thoughts. It’s my current favorite and go to piano.
Hmmm…
First of all, you know for sure that 50% of all pianoplayers in the world dislike Pianoteq v8?? Hahaha!
If your source is a few american forums that is a really silly assumption…
There are pianoplayers around the world that not participate in all kind of forums, they just play their pianos (of all sorts models, both analog & digital) and have a nice musical enjoyment…
If you hate Pianoteq v8, OK, but neither you and I represent everyone around the planet…
In the end, if Pianoteq was a shitty product Modartt wouldn’t have sold millions of licenses globally…
It's a fair comment that people who have shelled out a lot of money for something might at times be overprotective towards it as long as they like it well enough, and that might interfere with their ability to give an unbiased review. But exactly the same point can be made about people who invested in real grand pianos and expensive sampled piano libraries.
Also, seems that a lot of negative comments about Pianoteq referred to older versions.
Anyway, it's definitely never going to be something that all people agree on and that's totally fine.
For sure. I will say I was surprised to see the amount of negative comments about Pianoteq. As you said it’s mostly older versions, but even if the piano sound isn’t quite my favorite, everything else is so good that I can’t really say anything bad about it.
But don’t forget that (at least based on what I have read) the comments are broad and sometimes just focused on differences.
There’s no doubt in my mind that the average non-playing listener will not know it’s a modeled piano, and I suspect that of the comments that trend to the negative side, they’re of the same nature to comments on a grand piano being better than an upright.
It’s definitely been improving from version to version, and I imagine it will only continue to get better.
also the 96khz/192khz versions sounds better than the 44khz/48khz versions to my ears but that's another can of worms.
Don’t want to hijack this thread so I have posted this elsewhere - looking for suggestions to learn piano on. Honestly inspired by the gorgeous responsiveness, touch and sound of the Pianoteq Steinway D, and having more time as my retirement approaches. Thanks.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/57299/recommend-a-midi-keyboard-for-learning-the-piano/p1?new=1
No idea on that topic, but this is an interesting comment from the Pianoteq forum related to the thread below:
"Does it sound better? No. And it shouldn't, given the limitations of human physiology. It's more for recording and if you want to do extreme digital processing to the sound afterwards --- like floating precision colour in images that's there not because it makes for a better picture but so that you can Photoshop the bejeebus out of it and quantisation noise won't rear its ugly head."
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?pid=943442#p943442
yeah, there is the science people love to throw out there which they don't truly understand themselves but its complex, there is always another paper saying something different. to my ears it sounds better at higher sample rate. trust your ears!
well, not quite trust your ears. your (and mine) "ears" lie. its a well established phenomenon that if you think something will sound better, lo and behold you do hear it as better. trust double blind tests. and pretty much nothing else.
I trust my ears, its only me listening, if it sounds better to me then that's the best thing for me.
True that. I’m sure it’ll eventually be nearly perfect. It’s already great, imo. My only complaint is that the piano can sound a bit grating on my ears after a while, whereas Just Piano is a bit more mellow, which is why I use it more. But a lot of people don’t seem to have that issue so I think that’s more of a me problem lol
That’s what EQ is for
Everyone hears differently. This is both the difficulty and the beauty of perception. No one has the right to say, the application of "Pienouah EKZz" is perfect. For me, for example, what matters is how it translates from fingers to sound.
Comparisons are really difficult and the discussion can be endless. Just why go into it?
Can't remember which thread it was brought up in, but someone asked recently whether Pianoteq iOS will get the ability to load purely as an fx app. I contented the devs and was told they don't have any plans to add that. Pity, but it's already brilliant without that feature, and I'm very glad they just honestly and straightforwardly said they're not planning to add an fx auv3, instead of giving the old - technically not untrue but often also not very sincere - line about how 'we may look at adding that in a future update'.
This was interesting and fun, thanks
My personal belief is that memory and experience play quite a shallow role in forming the associations she’s speaking about, in as much as they can be altered by subsequent ones, albeit with the earlier ones harder to dislodge as the latter are built upon them. A bit like it taking longer to circle a mountain the further you descend from its peak.
I’ve always been more interested in universal associations, that go beyond the surface individual self, and are more to do with existential relations between the senses, so crop in dream like states. I remember dreaming a symphony, realising I was doing so in the dream and just giving up on trying to remember it for waking as I’m not a sophisticated enough classical composer to create what ‘I’ was creating. Just sat back on this stormy pier and listened 😂
But I love this stuff, and people using their own feel of things and thinking for themselves.
What is really love is to speak to someone up on the physical models we have of sound, light, how they are delineated, limited, and how the models relate, because what we are talking about is just the understanding of a multiplicity, based on our senses giving its elements a common symbolic medium (light, sound), in my opinion by stripping it of qualia beyond that senses reach. You hear something and you hear the margins of what it isn’t,
Interesting all the, occasionally ferocious, different takes on piano apps.
I’m primarily piano/guitar, and a piano sound I like is probably the most important part of recording for me, as well as vocals. I most often find sampled piano to sound synthetic in the resonances and I can’t stand it, am extra sensitive to that aspect (I also see any kind of jerkiness, or what I perceive as that, in high def tv panning etc motion, even when everyone else thinks it’s smooth, so I think motion and transitions are things I’m sensitive to). I expect I’m less sensitive to other aspects. Or maybe I’m not and I’m just throwing a humility bone
Anyway… o have found every single piano on iOS nowhere near usable in a song I would record, and unplayable bad until ravenscroft and then pure piano and now pianoteq. Others just sounded awful to me and I tried every one extensively up until then. Colossus and those apps, sampletank (lol), korg ivory—-the resonances on korg ivory sounded worse than my old cheap keyboards to me - no that’s unfair, the same.
There’s no separation between harmonics, under/over/whatevertones the resonances are really unsophisticated and grating, something like that, is how I’d describe my experience of it
Ravenscroft I have to mess with tone.
The first time I tried pianoteq on pc I instantly loved it and could get the sound I wanted and that sample libraries weren’t giving me. I thought at first I needed an upright but I can get it with soft reactive sounds too. I do prefer uprights though and they’re lacking in general. I like dynamics and I think that modelled apps are VASTLY superior in this respect. I do also think that sometimes in isolation and especially but not necessarily in the hands of a player who doesn’t have great touch (they may be a fantastic music in other aspects) modelled instruments can sound synthetic, definitely,
When I say in isolation, I mean that modelled instruments imo make better videos than photos of their sounds. They are meant to be alive, and crashing against themselves like an ocean.
This is all my impression. I have heard sampled piano where I’ve doubted this and thought this sounds amazing but it’s always been in less dynamic pieces, where I’m tricked into appreciating the sometimes superior tone of its single notes rather than their motion. Motion or dynamics is a thing evoked into being by playing. It is not the notes that comprise it, but it’s the feeling of the player guven form through them and for me the most important part of any art form because we are not really musicians or writers or painters but something, at least in the way I want to do things, other that gets expressed through those things
writing is my favorite thing ever and I don’t care about writing