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Comments
Not an excuse and I understand we all learn differently but I don’t think I’ve ever checked module help yet and I’ve been using Drambo daily for years.
Especially with reasonably simple modules tweaking and listening goes a long way.
I’m sure @giku_beepstreet will populate those missing bits in new modules soon.
Drambo is a must-have for AUM. In one app, you have everything, from a sequencer to automation. And you still have all the freedom you get from AUM.
That's the thing, I haven't been "using Drambo daily for years"...I need info to get going...
It is very odd to that in all the months of beta testing, not even a short description is present from so many modules. It seems like it would take at most a 10 minute discussion to get the text and two more to paste into the code somewhere.
It's even more puzzling to me when I know the caliber of some of the people in the beta test team, and the large amount of testing that goes on. I mean, those help texts aren't extensive, they're usually only a few sentences, and even that's too much?
Maybe it's just because the beta testers are themselves the types that don't think to check the help, being experimenters and tinkerers by nature. I dunno. It's weird.
I'm not sure I'm complaining about the actual lack, or the fact that I can't find a rationale in my head for that kind of mentality. I can see not updating manuals. That's a pain. But a simple short blurb per module as a matter of routine is too much to bother with? I don't get it.
The map is the territory
I see it as a solo developer and a family man doing pretty much all the work and doing tiny bit of outsourcing. Drambo has become a monster over time but the coding hands are still the same.
I think beta team does what beta teams do. Beta testing aka using the latest unreleased version and trying to break it.
Other than that there’s suggestions of future direction of development etc.
Drambo is a work of passion and writing help files, while a part of proper conduct, is at a tedious end of things. Although you’re absolutely right, it should be there.
Life sometimes takes priority, things slip. I do my fair share of internal moaning until I remind myself that I just need to trust the man behind the wheel.
Those help texts are so brief that I simply can't accept that lack of resources is the issue. Sorry to say it, but I think it's either not seeing the need, or not really caring. The task of writing them could be delegated to volunteers (the beta testers), the task of including them in the module can't take more than a minute.
btw, I'm talking about new modules here. I can see how it would be a some effort to backfill the older modules. to me it's ridiculous to release new modules with zero descriptive text.
Full documentation can be passed off as requiring resources that would slow down development. Not these little help texts.
OK, I'm done preaching.
@wim at least it’s not LLM-generated text
I'd be OK with that as long as it was accurate.
I guess that's one way to keep AI from stealing your work. Don't write it in the first place. 😉
I think the help texts are just an afterthought, and I don't mind, because most modules don't really need it. Like, if you've read the manual, you understand the signal flow, what connects to what, what the inputs and outputs are. So just use the module. It's pretty self explanatory IMO.
And we wonder why so many people are so intimidated by Drambo... 🙄
This is so true, I mean both stories. I was a hard-time developer a long time ago, and I can confirm that Wim's point of view aligns more with logic, like the Spock character, and the Supadom version is more leaning to Captain Kirk on the reality side. 😅 Of course, I’m on the Captain’s side because in reality lies the truth. 🤗
Drambo has plenty of documentation, to say nothing of all the tutorials, plus the helpful userbase. If the in-app help was removed, I doubt it would be missed. Many apps don't have any equivalent.
Anyways, I think it's probable that Drambo is intimidating because is a complex modular synthesis environment, not because some of the advanced modules lack little help files.
@timfromtheborder - judging from your Loopy Pro templates, somehow I don’t think you’re in the same league as most of us mere mortals. I think your perspective and ability to get along without aid is way above most people’s.
I attempt to access the help blurbs all the time. When they’re there and are more than just a one sentence rehash of the module name, they save me a lot of time. I don’t think I’m atypical.
I gotta say ... I'm more baffled by the strong resistance to this than to the absence of the help texts themselves. You'd think I was suggesting someone should make it their life's work. We're talking a few minutes per module over the days, weeks, or months of its development time. Wow.
But OK. I give up. 😎
@wim I've hardly got along without aid. I read the Drambo manual, I watched tutorials, I checked out the sample projects and racks. Then I spent a lot of time hooking things up and seeing what happened. And there's still plenty that baffles me.
I have no opposition to the help texts, mind you. I do use them. But I'd rather @giku_beepstreet spent his time working on updates than filling out all the missing help bits. Or really, just doing whatever he wants to do. Drambo is still way more accessible than VCV or, like, actual Eurorack stuff. Sure, maybe it would be easy to get those texts filled out. Or maybe it just isn't on the radar. I dunno! This thread probably isn't going to get any traction either way.
This...
Done already, for the missing help text.
Indeed, the focus on new features and functional bug fixes usually has higher priority than writing help and fixing purely cosmetic issues.
That's not to say that the latter aren't important, but I think that at least for the people who are willing to use Drambo in the intended way, this looks like the better way to go.
Help text would take a few minutes to write and it should obviously happen.
As a developer myself, the enduser isn’t often right when they say “it should only take a few minutes”
A few months ago there was an effort to revise all help for the 200+ of them (lost count)
Praise goes to @rs2000 for leading that effort
But since, in this short time, many wonderful modules have been introduced, I don’t mind the slightest that @giku releases these new toys without help at first
And yes, I think everyone agrees the documentation should mostly be a community contribution, keep the paperwork off the developer hands, and that’s how it’s mostly been
And besides, anyone that wants to learn drambo should go and register at the beepstreet forum
The help for the module, as thorough as it my be, will tell you what the module does, seldom how you can use it in practice besides some obvious cases, because it wouldn’t be possible given the open nature of the whole system
On the forum you will find no shortage of people willing to explain, test, build it for you, for the particular case you want to use that feature
Incidentally, I can't access the beepstreet website...is it down for everyone?
Edit: Weird, it comes and goes for me...
You should just be able to use the app and see the explanation for a module there, not have to resort to the forum to ask questions about it and wait for answers. This isn't rocket science, guys.
It's great that there was the big effort to add help for so many previous modules, which was a really valuable exercise, so it strikes me that it would be easy to keep this up given that a new release will typically contain 5 modules or less. Help for a new release typically wouldn't take more than an hour to write, so I really don't think this is a great deal of time in the grand scheme of things and would prove useful for many users.
You guys raise fair enough points. I’ve complained about the lack of help in the past when I was learning drambo (still am) but that was long ago, the situation has vastly improved.
And for the handful of modules that still miss help, @rs2000 already took care of that, so it will surely appear on next release
@offbrands
In my experience the only unanswered questions are ones that either:
Not saying it’s your case, just my anecdotal evidence, because unanswered questions are an exception
Also many times it would benefit to submit a test project, just highlighting the problem, instead of “why isn’t this midi/gate/whatever working” from a patch someone downloaded from patchstorage from 2 years ago and wants to customize for their particular usage case
Just to finish, I guess you guys mustn’t be developers, because there’s not one single developer in the history of development that ever thought “ah… finally, my favorite part of the job: writing the documentation“
When I worked as a developer it was far from my favourite part of the job, but I did it anyway...
Did you always do it on day one? Congrats if so, but the busy minds working on drambo (not me, I’m just a happy customer) also do it anyway. Maybe not on day one for new and complex models, but still
Also writing a thoroughly descriptive text isn’t easy, by itself, by any means
If it were easy then you wouldn’t be asking for it, because “spectral freezer” well it freezes da spectrum 🤷♂️