Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

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Nobody cares if you use AI

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Comments

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic

    @Svetlovska said:

    @Blipsford_Baubie said:
    Then back to rappers, cuz…music. I imagine if i was a rapper, I’d be really pissed about A.I.
    I’m thinking about things like losing all credibility if one is suspected of using A.I. as an aid. I don’t listen to rap or immerse myself in that world, but it’s largely egocentric, isn’t it? Forgive my ignorance.

    How is rap responding to AI? I don’t think these guys are worried about losing their credibility to AI…

    @Svetlovska said:

    @Blipsford_Baubie said:
    Then back to rappers, cuz…music. I imagine if i was a rapper, I’d be really pissed about A.I.
    I’m thinking about things like losing all credibility if one is suspected of using A.I. as an aid. I don’t listen to rap or immerse myself in that world, but it’s largely egocentric, isn’t it? Forgive my ignorance.

    How is rap responding to AI? I don’t think these guys are worried about losing their credibility to AI…

    So you're to blame for the Pete & Bas rabbit hole you sent me down! :mrgreen: Many thanks. These guys are legendary!

  • seonnthaproducerseonnthaproducer
    edited December 2024

    @NeuM said:

    @seonnthaproducer said:

    @Slam_Cut said:
    I recently tried to create some AI still art on Canva and found it was not easy to achieve what I wanted. There is a skill to directing AI to create what you want. Since I don’t work in that field, I won’t put in the time and will just get out my trusty pencil & paper.

    Based on that experience, I wouldn’t bother with AI music. I don’t know what I want when I start composing, so what am I going to tell AI to create? I have to play around with sounds and find something that I like well-enough to continue developing. And if AI is creating better music than I create, so what? No one will care enough to listen to my music anyway. I do it for myself. And if I am not creating it, why will I care about it?

    I don’t know...Suno is pretty incredible in what it can do.

    I’ve used all of the main services (and a few obscure ones) and I find the quality of generations is much, much higher with Udio. No comparison. Have you used and compared?

    I briefly tried Udio, and it was alright, but I stuck with Suno. It does a lot of cool things, and its like having a seperate composer.

    I've put vocals, lyrics, and other ideas and I give it a feel of the genre. Sometimes it gives out completely different interpretations that don't follow the song structure, but I've been able to use those ideas.

    Run it through a stem splitter, and you can reuse those ideas in your unique creations.

    It's awesome.

  • seonnthaproducerseonnthaproducer
    edited December 2024

    I gotta say, I really love the creative bit of the new generation

    Drake singing, bubbly by Colbie Caillat, who would’ve thought

    And this collaboration, lit the musical Internet war on fire when AI Drake and AI the weeknd did this insane collaboration

  • gardengarden

    This is what they think of you: https://www.404media.co/ceo-of-ai-music-company-says-people-dont-like-making-music/

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited January 2025

    @garden said:
    This is what they think of you: https://www.404media.co/ceo-of-ai-music-company-says-people-dont-like-making-music/

    He said (in part): "...It’s not really enjoyable to make music now […] It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of practice, you need to get really good at an instrument or really good at a piece of production software. I think the majority of people don’t enjoy the majority of the time they spend making music.”

    A good number of us are the exception to that statement, but on average, I think he's right. People like music for a lot of different reasons, but a tiny number of people are willing to put in the work to actually make music. It's laborious. It takes decades of commitment to become great at it. It's no different from many other individual skills in that respect. And the number of people who are successful at making music are very small. The same romantic notions surround being famous musicians and actors and large numbers of people wanting to become "rich and famous" for doing nothing.

  • gardengarden

    Why "make" music - or any art - at all? I get that AI can enable people with limited access to tools, and limited training or skill, to create what can even be interesting work. We see examples of it here on this forum. But what's the point of zero effort creation, except for purely commercial purpose? For anyone not needing to make next week's paycheck, his attitude is a hopelessly misguided, and in some ways malicious, misunderstanding.

  • reasOnereasOne

    I can’t stand total ai art personally. I haven’t read this entire thread but that’s my current feeling haha.
    Create something and maybe use a lil ai to help out here n there.. cool but just typing in promts to create something based on searching the innerwebs for past human work.. lame

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2025
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • NeuMNeuM
    edited January 2025

    @offbrands said:
    Rarely, if ever, are monumental gains earned without stepping on and often over the vast majority of people underneath them. Creatives seem to be the first to be stepped on, often.

    There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of creativity and the beautiful act of creating has all of its humanity stripped away with using AI.

    Personally, I feel as though people are robbing themselves of a joy I imagine a lot of us have felt at one point or another. Creating can produce just such an enchanting one of a kind feeling. You finish something (sometimes..) and you look back and just can feel so grateful and proud of the work you did. Or you can use whatever you’ve made for other projects going forward. You learn by doing. You grow by learning.

    Anytime I see AI it immediately cheapens the whole project, again, personally. Even someone as deep in the Capitalist Hollywood system as Ben fucking Affleck sees that and seems to understand creativity far more than practically anyone involved in the AI sector, including the literal water carriers.

    He said recently, ‘Craftsman is knowing how to work, art is knowing when to stop.’

    That’s all AI is, it’s a line cook, not an executive chef. If people want to cut corners on their projects by use of other creatives stolen art work used to train their ai models, that’s their prerogative, and if they don’t want to admit how they’re robbing themselves of their own creative pursuits, that’s fine.

    I would imagine it takes a person being incapable of feeling shame or guilt, and well, that’s up to them to maybe get some help, truly.

    I feel a deep sadness that people are robbing themselves of a joyous opportunity to experience expression through a medium they’ve taken their limited time on earth to hone in on, only to twist themselves into a pretzel to justify the use of a product with a vast amount of issues in pursuit of their own narrow goal.

    What I don’t get is how a barter system hasn’t presented it self in lieu of using AI. If someone needs musical intro for a YouTube video, and you need some album art, and we can all admit we are, often, poor creatives, then instead of falling for adverts and using AI by giant tech monoliths, how is it that we debate about the ethical issues and end up nowhere?

    Such is life, I suppose, there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism right? Dog eat dog world, right?

    I personally will never use generative AI. If you use it, you won’t see any hate from me. Though, I imagine a lot of creatives are of the same feeling and we will just ignore those efforts or, silently, question what part of it is real or not 🤷🏻‍♂️

    I've used both Suno and Udio plenty. And they don't intimidate me because I don't rely on composing or recording music for my income. Again... these are tools. A studio musician/composer who does make a living in this field will need to be familiar with what is going on with ALL aspects of their business, including generative in order to retain their competitive edge.

    People who perform live music have nothing to worry about yet. In possibly 3-5 years (or a bit longer), when robots are capable of playing at a level comparable to the best trained musicians... then people should worry. 😂

  • reezyglereezygle

    @seonnthaproducer said:

    @NeuM said:

    @seonnthaproducer said:

    @Slam_Cut said:
    I recently tried to create some AI still art on Canva and found it was not easy to achieve what I wanted. There is a skill to directing AI to create what you want. Since I don’t work in that field, I won’t put in the time and will just get out my trusty pencil & paper.

    Based on that experience, I wouldn’t bother with AI music. I don’t know what I want when I start composing, so what am I going to tell AI to create? I have to play around with sounds and find something that I like well-enough to continue developing. And if AI is creating better music than I create, so what? No one will care enough to listen to my music anyway. I do it for myself. And if I am not creating it, why will I care about it?

    I don’t know...Suno is pretty incredible in what it can do.

    I’ve used all of the main services (and a few obscure ones) and I find the quality of generations is much, much higher with Udio. No comparison. Have you used and compared?

    I briefly tried Udio, and it was alright, but I stuck with Suno. It does a lot of cool things, and its like having a seperate composer.

    I've put vocals, lyrics, and other ideas and I give it a feel of the genre. Sometimes it gives out completely different interpretations that don't follow the song structure, but I've been able to use those ideas.

    Run it through a stem splitter, and you can reuse those ideas in your unique creations.

    It's awesome.

    Wouldn't it give you the stems itself, if you ask nicely? ;-)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic
    edited January 2025

    ...

  • reasOnereasOne

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    I still stick by my stance that the average music listener won't care how a piece of music was made. The majority only want to enjoy the end results and don't consider the artistry behind the music all that much. Although my handful of regular clients love the artistry behind a beat or piece of music, so they commission me for originality. (And one of my clients uses Udio quite frequently just for shits and giggles, but prefers a real piece of music when he makes video content.)

    I agree that most people don’t care about real art or how things are created. For me, its something i care almost too much about… so i can’t use these tools in my own life. We only get one spin on this planet and i want to create!!! Haha

    That said, I tried Udio once last year for sample fodder, and it was sort of fun. (It was the old-timey 1930s-styled BIg Band piece of music I generated and sampled for this Electro Swing track I did back in either May or June.) However, that was just an experiment, and I still prefer to create my own music from scratch.

    Ai has a use, for helping people get results. I’m not a drummer so i use MIDI apps and samples…and learn from artists that came before me to program drums. I do rely on the work of others to create apps and programs to help me get results. Ai to me is just sketch tho as it really isn’t the same, to me at this point in its time it feels almost criminal.. of course i don’t fully understand ai and how it works so i could be wrong. I did mess with an ai app once to create a horn riff. I was going to sample it but ultimately decided not to .

    With that said, I recently started to use ChatGPT on occasion to give me 100% random answers to prompts I give it whenever I get stuck creatively on a piece of Ambient. Then I base a piece of Ambient around those prompts. In this sense, it's no different than using a deck of cards or a pair of dice to determine what to make next stochastically. It's just that ChatGPT can give you straightforward answers instead of me having to invent a system based on a deck of cards/pair of dice to get my answers from.

    Chatgpt is helpful to get answers! And fix my horrible emails 🤣 might be better than google for giving information.

    I also use Wonder AI to generate quick album art. Yes, I can make my own album art in ProCreate (and did so for my single "Snake" since I needed the person to look like the bastard who backstabbed me on this gaming server), but art is not my strongsuit. So in the 2-3 hours it takes me to make a mediocre piece of cover art, I could've made another piece of Ambient instead. (Usually takes me under an hour for quickly-made Ambient, and 2-3 hours for Ambient that has more thought and craft behind it. 😂 )

    All in all, AI has its uses. Ymmv and all those same tropes. 🤣

    I’m learning pro create and its amazing! Honestly just use that even if the results are perfect… it has to be more satisfying at the end knowing you drew it. When i release my ep this year im going to commission a small artist or just draw some bs that’s good enough and use it lol

  • reasOnereasOne

    @offbrands said:
    Rarely, if ever, are monumental gains earned without stepping on and often over the vast majority of people underneath them. Creatives seem to be the first to be stepped on, often.

    There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of creativity and the beautiful act of creating has all of its humanity stripped away with using AI.

    Personally, I feel as though people are robbing themselves of a joy I imagine a lot of us have felt at one point or another. Creating can produce just such an enchanting one of a kind feeling. You finish something (sometimes..) and you look back and just can feel so grateful and proud of the work you did. Or you can use whatever you’ve made for other projects going forward. You learn by doing. You grow by learning.

    Anytime I see AI it immediately cheapens the whole project, again, personally. Even someone as deep in the Capitalist Hollywood system as Ben fucking Affleck sees that and seems to understand creativity far more than practically anyone involved in the AI sector, including the literal water carriers.

    He said recently, ‘Craftsman is knowing how to work, art is knowing when to stop.’

    That’s all AI is, it’s a line cook, not an executive chef. If people want to cut corners on their projects by use of other creatives stolen art work used to train their ai models, that’s their prerogative, and if they don’t want to admit how they’re robbing themselves of their own creative pursuits, that’s fine.

    I would imagine it takes a person being incapable of feeling shame or guilt, and well, that’s up to them to maybe get some help, truly.

    I feel a deep sadness that people are robbing themselves of a joyous opportunity to experience expression through a medium they’ve taken their limited time on earth to hone in on, only to twist themselves into a pretzel to justify the use of a product with a vast amount of issues in pursuit of their own narrow goal.

    What I don’t get is how a barter system hasn’t presented it self in lieu of using AI. If someone needs musical intro for a YouTube video, and you need some album art, and we can all admit we are, often, poor creatives, then instead of falling for adverts and using AI by giant tech monoliths, how is it that we debate about the ethical issues and end up nowhere?

    Such is life, I suppose, there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism right? Dog eat dog world, right?

    I personally will never use generative AI. If you use it, you won’t see any hate from me. Though, I imagine a lot of creatives are of the same feeling and we will just ignore those efforts or, silently, question what part of it is real or not 🤷🏻‍♂️

    💯
    Creative communitys will become less relevant as time goes on As people use it to replace human imagination and expression.
    Its sad because creativity is one thing that makes us so different from most other species. I don’t want to give that to the robots!!!!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2025
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • KrupaKrupa

    I’m on the horns of a dilemma at the moment; there’s a fund being run by one of the top AI firms to provide for film making. The obvious proviso is that you use their tools in the production. I’m sorely tempted as the the films one been pitching for years aren’t easy sells, either to commercial outfits, or to public funding bodies, but I think they’d be of interest to a firm trying to establish patterns of working with creative materials.

    Should I go with the ‘easy’ option of AI and finally get something out there? Will I regret selling one of my babies into that world? Will I be harshly judged, and stand even less chance with gatekeepers of established media, or will I finally get a chance to show off some of the things I’ve been dreaming of making for years? Will I just be disappointed with the result and not want to even show it to people, or will it free my creativity from the insanely hard work of animation being so damn hard for individuals to finish without outside support?

    Tbh, I maybe stand as little chance with these guys as everybody else, but I could probably just use their tools for relatively cheap and find out for myself, but it’s the questions above that are bothering me this month…

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2025
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • reasOnereasOne

    See this Procreate comment? This is the pursuit of creativity. Wake the fuck up everyone. Creativity is the pursuit. The end product is capitalism telling you only final results matter. That fundamentally misunderstands creativity.

    I’ll align myself with the likes of @reasOne

    💯
    Creative communitys will become less relevant as time goes on As people use it to replace human imagination and expression.
    Its sad because creativity is one thing that makes us so different from most other species. I don’t want to give that to the robots!!!

    Cheers bro!

    Cheers bro! Id rather draw a black line on a white background than have an ai do anything for me personally.
    I agree, creativity is the goal…. not a pretty packaged product.
    Having an item to sell into society is a human construct and amplified by capitalism.
    This planet is run by greed, results and metrics… its disgusting. There’s barely anything left that isn’t some made up human construct telling us how we need to live on this planet.
    Creativity, community and human connection are things they want to take from us the most now… but I’m going to do my best to tell em to eff off! And just keep using my imagination and help from others to exist and do what i enjoy

  • NeuMNeuM

    @offbrands said:

    @NeuM said:

    @offbrands said:
    Rarely, if ever, are monumental gains earned without stepping on and often over the vast majority of people underneath them. Creatives seem to be the first to be stepped on, often.

    There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of creativity and the beautiful act of creating has all of its humanity stripped away with using AI.

    Personally, I feel as though people are robbing themselves of a joy I imagine a lot of us have felt at one point or another. Creating can produce just such an enchanting one of a kind feeling. You finish something (sometimes..) and you look back and just can feel so grateful and proud of the work you did. Or you can use whatever you’ve made for other projects going forward. You learn by doing. You grow by learning.

    Anytime I see AI it immediately cheapens the whole project, again, personally. Even someone as deep in the Capitalist Hollywood system as Ben fucking Affleck sees that and seems to understand creativity far more than practically anyone involved in the AI sector, including the literal water carriers.

    He said recently, ‘Craftsman is knowing how to work, art is knowing when to stop.’

    That’s all AI is, it’s a line cook, not an executive chef. If people want to cut corners on their projects by use of other creatives stolen art work used to train their ai models, that’s their prerogative, and if they don’t want to admit how they’re robbing themselves of their own creative pursuits, that’s fine.

    I would imagine it takes a person being incapable of feeling shame or guilt, and well, that’s up to them to maybe get some help, truly.

    I feel a deep sadness that people are robbing themselves of a joyous opportunity to experience expression through a medium they’ve taken their limited time on earth to hone in on, only to twist themselves into a pretzel to justify the use of a product with a vast amount of issues in pursuit of their own narrow goal.

    What I don’t get is how a barter system hasn’t presented it self in lieu of using AI. If someone needs musical intro for a YouTube video, and you need some album art, and we can all admit we are, often, poor creatives, then instead of falling for adverts and using AI by giant tech monoliths, how is it that we debate about the ethical issues and end up nowhere?

    Such is life, I suppose, there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism right? Dog eat dog world, right?

    I personally will never use generative AI. If you use it, you won’t see any hate from me. Though, I imagine a lot of creatives are of the same feeling and we will just ignore those efforts or, silently, question what part of it is real or not 🤷🏻‍♂️

    I've used both Suno and Udio plenty. And they don't intimidate me because I don't rely on composing or recording music for my income. Again... these are tools. A studio musician/composer who does make a living in this field will need to be familiar with what is going on with ALL aspects of their business, including generative in order to retain their competitive edge.

    People who perform live music have nothing to worry about yet. In possibly 3-5 years (or a bit longer), when robots are capable of playing at a level comparable to the best trained musicians... then people should worry. 😂

    Often, almost always, I find every comment you make on this forum to be antithetical to my beliefs, values, worldviews, ideas about creativity, etc. this time being no different, nor surprising, but makes me deeply, though very briefly, sad for you. Though I know I shouldn’t waste the empathy.

    You’re welcome to be a cynic, but I’d rather you and I don’t engage, ever. Cheers.

    We're all here to exchange our views and if this forum ever became a place where people only agreed with each other it would be a very boring place indeed. My experiences and views are different from yours and that's OK. I'm comfortable with someone holding a different point of view.

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic
    edited January 2025

    @reasOne You could always commission me to make an album cover for you. 😂 Doesn't mean it'll be high quality, but I'd try my best. (Actually, I've kind of given up on visual art. But I am looking forward to hearing your EP.)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2025
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • NeuMNeuM
    edited January 2025

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    @reasOne You could always commission me to make an album cover for you. 😂 Doesn't mean it'll be high quality, but I'd try my best. (Actually, I've kind of given up on visual art. But I am looking forward to hearing your EP.)

    @offbrands You do have some valid points, but I get it. You're very anti-AI. You needn't have to be so verbose or antagonistic to drive your point home. Also, your viewpoint of me or my music shouldn't change just because I use AI to occasionally generate random album art. That's almost as silly as someone's viewpoint changing about an artist because they come out of the closet. 😂

    But then again, I'm just a random person on the internet. Why should you care what tools I use to help me make music? Why should your view of me change? I bet many people thought the same thing about Karlheinz Stockhausen when he came up with systems to create his music stochastically.

    EDIT: Or thought Karlheinz was insane when 4'33" was first performed publically.

    As far as viewers/listeners/an audience is concerned, they are there to experience the results of our work, not the process... unless the process is also part of the performance, I suppose.

    I find adamant opposition to generative/"A.I." things a bit strange, since these tools take nothing away from a person who chooses not to use them. 🤣

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic
    edited January 2025

    @NeuM
    As far as viewers/listeners/an audience is concerned, they are there to experience the results of our work, not the process... unless the process is also part of the performance, I suppose.

    I find adamant opposition to generative/"A.I." things a bit strange, since these tools take nothing away nothing from a person who chooses not to use them.

    Thank you! Well said. 👏

  • NeuMNeuM

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    @offbrands Nope, not willfully ignoring. That's only your perception. I took into account all you said.

    By the way, I used the "coming out of the closet" example, because my parents used to think less of artists who turned out to be gay. I couldn't stand that about them. 😂 And honestly, it seems you wish to be willfully ignorant as to how AI can be used as a tool to enhance creativity rather than replace creativity.

    Whatever dude. I'm not here for wasting my time on your bleeding heart "think of the children" drama. I wasn't even replying to you above in the first place, which is why I didn't even bother to tag you. Get a life.

    @NeuM
    As far as viewers/listeners/an audience is concerned, they are there to experience the results of our work, not the process... unless the process is also part of the performance, I suppose.

    I find adamant opposition to generative/"A.I." things a bit strange, since these tools take nothing away nothing from a person who chooses not to use them.

    Thank you! Well said. 👏

    😃👍

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2025
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • wimwim

    @offbrands said:
    Yes, it’s because of the art it produces being objectively awful, sure, but mostly because it’s stolen, and also at best...I’m showing the world that by packaging something I put my heart and soul (your music) into with something without any heart and soul (the ai art cover), I don’t really care about the whole process, just this one part of it, and at worst that what is packaged within could be more AI art not made by any human. IMO. All due respect.

    I'm not sure I follow this logic. If one is a musician but no artist, and doesn't know of anyone to ask or pay to create some art, but still wants to present an interesting graphic to go along with their music, how is that wrong? And how does it reflect poorly on their artistry? I don't get it.

    I get that you think AI is soul destroying, and I happen to be of the same mind about my own creativity. I will not ever use AI to create music. Because creating it myself is what gives me satisfaction.

    I also only write programs when I want the challenge and mental exercise of working out problems on my own. But, if I get completely stuck, I don't have any qualms about getting a boost from ChatGPT any more than I would in asking a a teacher or programmer friend for some help (though yes, I do feel like I wish I could have worked it out on my own). Would I ask it to write a whole program? No. That would be no fun for me.

    But if I knew nothing about programming and didn't care about it, and I needed a program to do something for me, I would with no misgivings. Likewise with art. Anything I could create on my own would give me no satisfaction because it would suck. I wouldn't pay someone to do it. If I could get what I wanted for free with a little bit of prompting work, I would without misgivings.

    If someone on a mission to resist AI encroachment judged me based on that, I think it would backfire a bit. I'd probably recognize them as sincerely trying to help, but I think I'd tip them a tiny bit more to the zealot side rather than the well reasoned side of the scale.

    Just my loose thoughts. I'm not really as interested in this topic as the length of my comment would indicate. 😂😎

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic
    edited January 2025

    ...

  • GoldiblockzGoldiblockz
    edited January 2025

    i don't click on album art that is clearly ai generated, looks like slop shit made by people that throw tantrums when they cant shade an apple thinking it's the end all be all of sketching

    an artist putting effort into music and not their album art, to the point of just puking AI prompts in our faces, tells me we have different views on art as a whole, let alone how it spits in the face of the environment or the very human concepts of Community and Education.

  • GoldiblockzGoldiblockz

    "just google that shit" I used to be that kind of person.

    That person is now "just ask ChatGPT"

    The huge difference is Google used to give me a source, a trail, a trace back to a community where I can ponder and get further education and happiness. Where I can contribute and make friends. If they get stuck they can ask me a specific question with ease.

    "Just ask ChatGPT" is literally just telling people to crawl through the woods and fend for themselves while often throwing mirages in their faces. That's not how I view art.

    Art is about growth and knowledge and creativity, not about a barbaric end result with no soul.

  • wimwim

    so much drama about a little square of album art. 😂

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