Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Comments
@rhism at your request:
Obviously not finished but I had a fine time with your app yesterday. Thanks for the work!
Thats fucking beautiful
Sorry 'bout the French
Such a bloody nice sound you've created.
The movie comparison is a weird one but interesting. Ignoring for a moment how subsidized a $12 ticket is by product endorsements (and how much theaters rely on "IAP"s like popcorn) they're really different beasts for me.
One way to look at it is this: Once I'm creating a song and I like it, how much would I pay to keep making it? Compare that amount to how much I would pay to keep watching a movie. For me anyway, they're in completely different strata. That high you get from creating something and liking it isn't something you are going get in a movie theater.
I reckon they're both gambles to an extent. Based on reviews of a movie, you go make a gamble. Hopefully you like it and you feel like your $10-$20 was great way to spend a couple of hours. For songwriters anyway(***), the gamble is more about "Will this $10-$20 help or inspire me to create something great?". To me, the risk may be a little higher with a music app but the potential pay off is way way higher.
(***) I recognize that for some music apps consumers (including, I would imagine, a substantial segment of guitarism's user base) creating songs isn't the point so this may not apply. Still, listening to a Bright Eyes song and playing one are very different highs.
.
@Syrupcore....that sounds great!
Actually, I think the first (non developer) Audiobus recording I heard, was by you. A really catchy guitar track if I remember rightly.
I obviously like your style *
*goes and checks Soundcloud.
@syrupcore Wow, beautiful sound!
Punch quest is an interesting example as at launch there were a bunch of articles / interviews about how they developers were trying to avoid the usual Zynga-style IAP model, but as a result were making next to no money. It looks like they're doing better now. Now that you mention it, looks like the $0.99 tier coins purchase is called "Donate a buck" which is neat since it's still giving you coins (just like all the other IAPs), but the name of the IAP tells you what it's really for. Smart.
It's interesting to think about how virtual currency might work in a sensible way in a music creation app. In games those coins let you buy one-time-use super powers. What could coins in something like guitarism offer? Maybe a way to rent an expensive IAP for a limited time without paying full price. Would that seem worthwhile to people? Would you pay a buck to rent Auria for a day?
One thing I would absolutely love to do someday is to allow users to create their own sounds, skins, maybe even design their own instrument interfaces, and sell them to each other via in-app coins, and guitarism takes a percentage cut. If you're good at making skins you can get everything for free by selling stuff to earn coins, but if you don't have the time to make and sell things you can just pay money to buy the coins and then buy the stuff you want. Ideally sellers could eventually cash out their coins for real currency though that's currently prohibited by Apple policy.
yep.....so f**kin catchy. Love it!
I thought the skins idea was a good one. Surely a virtual currency system would have just as high a risk of random one star reviews.
All very creative ideas though...this thread is an interesting read.
@Simon interesting set of points. I agree with the "developer should make as much as possible, just like anyone else" line of thinking. Will get back to that.
Wrt paying for apps per year, that sounds like a subscription model. How would you (or others) feel about an app that charges a monthly or yearly subscription, rather than a flat fee? I suspect it won't go over very well. Personally I find subscriptions uncomfortable to sign up for as it becomes a commitment, and you have to remember to cancel it etc. Perhaps if it was more like a prepaid model without auto-renew that would feel a little more comfortable, but still may feel like you're getting nothing 'permanent' for your money.
I think you didn't mean subscription though, you meant that every year I launch a "sequel" to the app, e.g. guitarism 2, guitarism 3 etc that lines up with new iOS releases. This is an interesting idea - the biggest challenge is that many people might be happy enough with the older version to not upgrade, and in general most older apps do work fine on new iOS versions. Thoughts from others on that?
Going back to earning "as much as possible" I think this comes down to opportunity cost, just like consumers have to choose to spend their time and dollar across apps, music, movies etc. In general, a good iOS developer in San Francisco can easily earn $100 per hour doing freelance work, and most can earn more. If you estimate 40 hrs / week x 50 weeks a year, that is $200,000 per year pre-tax. Which means if you're selling apps you need to be making about $550 per day (after Apple's 30% cut) to break even on your opportunity cost. Adding in the Apple 30% gives you $783 worth of daily sales needed to break even for one developer in San Francisco. Growing the team size multiplies this out, and changing the location can significantly change the numbers.
guitarism v1 was making less than $1 a day. V2 with recording and sharing made about $20 a day. V3 with Audiobus and iPad support makes about $50-80 a day. I believe minimum wage is $91 per day based on what @mgmg4871 mentioned a while back. There's quite a long way to go, and it will definitely need multiple apps and IAPs to get there.
@SpookyZoo Skins is definitely good. But I think a virtual coin pack that's called "Donate a buck" is far superior as it clearly telegraphs its intent - people know exactly why they're buying it
@syrupcore Agreed that watching a movie is a very different experience and value proposition than playing an app. But I still agree that things can be boiled down into value of time, so the more time someone spends with an app the more value they're likely getting from it. There are exceptions of course. Sometimes you don't need to spend time in an app to get value from it - just popping it out once in a while gives you what you want from it. Sometimes just having it gives you what you want from it - luxury goods pricing and valuation is a fairly complex topic. But I'll bet that for the majority of apps, especially music apps, time spent correlates strongly positively to value received.
Cheers @commonstookie, @rhism, and @spookyzoo
@spookyzoo that 'audiobus joy' track was literally the first hour with it. I had tweeted the AB team some link about promoting a new app and they said thank by sending me a promo code about an hour before it was officially released! I tried to post it before the release because I'm a bratty show off.
@rhism that punchquest IAP comes with no coins actually. It's kind of the point of it. Fun game btw!
@syrupcore Interesting - had to actually try it out to realize that. It seems to run counter to Apple's policy by doing this. Though it ends up giving you a 'mystery item' which is a neat gesture. I wonder if that was needed anyway to get Apple approval.
Wow, didn't realize how active I was in this thread!
Thanks for a very cogent summary of the topics of the "other" thread, Rhism.
As you can imagine, I have some interesting considerations to offer, as I happen to be friends with a fairly successful iOS/android game dev, so I've had plenty of time to discuss these pricing issues..
I'm going to have to save it for tomorrow though, as I'm just wiped tonight. I'm very happy to have a different receptive thread for the discussion though, as there were WAY too many crosswinds in the other one.
.
Great angle and the 'strike it rich' thing is definitely a factor with the App Store appeal. Except the developer does not get a fixed wage! And, how much 0 wage time did they have to invest before their product was even available?
.
Developing anything like this is always a bit of a gamble. You may earn next to nothing, or you may hit it big. Of course the better it is, the more chance of success, but you also need some promotion and good word of mouth. Some will do it because they developed it for themselves and wanted to share it and any revenues they earn will be a bonus. Others will be more focused on the return they can make. Its the same with any software development - you invest the effort upfront on the hope of a reasonable payoff when it goes on sale - each new sale effectively requires no further effort on your part (unlike making a physical product).
.
If you're developing an app, you're investing a lot of money it - maybe not in cash but in opportunity cost. Probably not on the scale of a restaurant loan but every hour you spend programming your app is an hour you could be making (often upwards of) $75 an hour coding for someone else. If it's 3 months at 20 hours a week (at $75) you've invested about 20 grand before you even launch...
.
$20,000 is a small gamble? Remind me not to accept your poker invitations!
There's a difference too between investing hard cash and investing time, even though I totally get the opportunity cost argument. A teenager in his/her room may have no money to invest, but they can learn to program and create an app with their free time.
@Simon @syrupcore @PhilW Great set of comments - just catching up with all of this. It's certainly true that an app developer is an entrepreneur, though there are lots of different types of entrepreneurs - those hoping for the next Camera+ vs those who just want to be able to work for themselves and earn a sustainable amount (often called a "lifestyle business"). Most or all people making music creation apps are in the latter category. The gold rush is long gone, anyone making apps should know that by now. The only app categories that have a hope of striking gold are games, entertainment and social networking. And the only price points that have a hope of striking gold are free and (to a rapidly diminishing degree) 99 cents. Even within music there are a lot of music player apps - music creation is a niche within a niche. There is, unfortunately, no way on earth an app like ThumbJam or iFretless Bass can hope to become the next Angry Birds.
I think the comparison to opening a cafe is appropriate. With a cafe you don't expect to become a billionnaire, but you hope to make a good living and do something you enjoy, work for yourself, etc. The games space is also interesting to look at for comparison, particularly on the PC / Steam platform. Most of those games don't aspire to be the next Angry Birds. A game like Antichamber isn't going to sell a billion copies. The creator has a specific vision that he wants to implement, and he hopes to make enough revenue from it to be able to self-fund his next game. I think most if not all music app creators are this kind of entrepreneur, and the goal is more about being self-sufficient than becoming a billionnaire.
@AQ808 Looking forward to your comments - they have been very inspired so far!
@Rhism I can't wait for midi....just opens up a whole new world for me with other apps controlled by this....(rocking back and forth with anticipation....)
Me either!!!!
@DerekBuddemeyer @JMSexton Me too!
Though am bracing for a fair amount of backlash from people who believe midi should be a standard part of every music app. So what do you guys think I should price the MIDI IAPs at? Should I do a single MIDI in+out IAP or two separate IAPs for in and out?
Of course it is your app but as a user I would expect MIDI in/out to be standard hence a single IAP for MIDI in/out would work for me. But no backlash here. I understand developing extra features cost extra man hours and it is all a gamble.
Since it does not come with these features, I personally think $5.00 is not too much to ask. If I remember correctly, it seems you may have been thinking about a $15.00 IAP for MIDI. That seems a little steep to me. But it is your call and I hope it works out for you.
@Rhism I have no idea what it costs you to develop the extra features for your app. Midi in/out should be wrapped into a single purchase IMO. As far as pricing goes....I feel that $5 would be fair....but it's up to you.