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I suffer from asthma but I wear a mask to protect others, other people have the choice to wear a mask or not, we all have freedom, freedom to care. Or not.
They are not biased opinions. They are alternative opinions. And that is what is needed for a healthy scientific community even though they are being suppressed.
🤦♂️
Currently living in northern Idaho and these people are everywhere. It’s impossible to get them to understand because they literally don’t give the slightest fuck about other people and are proud of it.
My favorite example is the giant flag on someone’s house that says “Trump 2020 because fuck you again”
My girlfriend works a retail job and everyday has to deal with all the people that refuse to wear masks. They literally don’t care. No amount of explaining or reasoning or just trying to explain that it’s not about them but the safety of everyone, ESPECIALLY the poor folks that work there and are exposed to it the most and have to sit in one place breathing it all in. And they all come equipped with their own “facts” as to why it’s actually even worse to wear them.
And every single one of them, you can just see in their eyes what a giant piece of shit they actually are. It’s disgusting.
This country is 100% fucked, not just from covid.
And by the way, do you still stand on your 3 million American dead calculations.
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would surrender freedom in order to gain security will end up losing both".
@Mark B i don’t see a date on that Belgian letter. Is there one? Maybe I’m missing it, but dates are important in a situation where the facts are changing all the time.
This is the dilemma since we do not know if we are infected or not and without knowing that the mask does nothing more than increase the distance and paranoia between people because everyone wearing a mask is considered to be 'ill' or 'sick' already. It's different in the hospitals than in public... (unless the air is extremely polluted).
I do regret not investing in companies making the masks...
It would have been a good return of investment in these times
I'm out from this discussion...
Cheers!
Here’s the original site in Dutch. It looks like late August / early September
http://omgekeerdelockdown.simplesite.com/446907321
And by the way, I do have sympathy for the idea that the cure may be worse than the illness, but only because the response has been so shoddy and continues to be. My guess is that due to mishandling, yes, all lockdown strategies etc may eventually be abandoned. But the reason for this will be due to mishandling. If this had been dealt with properly in the early stages, the negative economic and social consequences would have been minor. Trump, Johnson etc were unwilling to face short term damage to the economy for the sake of long term gains. This is a major problem with our whole system of short-term elected leaders who care more about getting voted in again than they do about the long term picture. I’m not sure what the solution is, but the current system is not working. Expect far worse when climate change starts to wreak even more havoc and we still have these current broken systems in place. This current drama will look like peanuts in comparison. We’re talking ‘Children of Men’ type unrest here....
Good people on both sides
@Mark B As I mentioned earlier, I haven’t followed much of this thread. Can I ask why you think governments would be following these strategies - which are economically damaging for their countries and unlikely to get them elected again - if they are completely unnecessary. What is your view of the big picture?
You do have another option, @samu:
You could carry a personal oxygen tank with a plastic face mask that would both protect others (as well as yourself) while at the same time providing you with pure oxygen.
My uncle suffered from emphysema for decades and used one whenever he went out.
Today, there are extremely portable and equally effective units that solve all those issues.
Every one has choices.
Those choices shouldn’t be affected by perceived issues that are easily remedied.
“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”
It is a simple fact that the countries that did serious lockdowns and measures like large-scale testing and masking and quarantining brought the infection rate down to a manageable level and were able to get to something much more like normalcy than countries like the U.S. that have had no consistent strategy.
Thank you. This is still a pretty small number of doctors on the scale of the whole country, mind you. Remember that doctors are people too, and scientists and doctors often have their own interests at hand. Doctors are part of the wealthy classes, they often have investments that are being badly affected by the current lockdowns, such as city center rentals that are suffering from lockdown restrictions. We should trust scientists more than politicians, in general, but not always.
Not to mention that there is a breed of scientists that are so ‘by the book’ it’s ridiculous. When I was in Thailand in March, I met a young English nurse who told me, ‘I don’t believe in masks, there’s no proof’. I don’t have her Facebook, but I bet you any money if I asked her now, she would admit she was wrong, after probably having seen several colleagues die due to lack of ppe.
Countries like the U.S. that have had no consistent strategy.
Consistent?
The only consistent strategy the U.S. has had is defer, deny, and lie.
Dumbass Donnie’s “strategy” is singular:
Win re-election at any and all costs.
I 100% agree
Any tiny COVID successes were achieved in spite of the dictator wannabe...
I’ve avoided political threads like this because a) I don’t think this forum is about politics, and b) I don’t want to alienate anyone who enjoys my channel but doesn’t share my views. But frankly, as the situation escalates, I don’t think any of us can afford to keep silent about these matters.
How deep is the rabbit hole. I really don’t have the answers. Is it total incompetence or coordinated actions. My suspicions have arisen because the governments have continually raised the fear and ignored advice from moderate scientists, bringing in even more loss of freedoms and draconian measures. In Australia the state of Victoria is now a full on police state. Before Covid at the end of last year apparently the monetary system was getting close to collapse again with interbank lending drying up. Was Covid something that is being used to bring in a big change. Can we expect digital health passports where we cannot live normal lives unless our vaccine schedule is up to date (already being discussed by governments). The end of cash and only digital currency (which really allows control of people). The world economic forum has been talking about the “Great Reset” and the United Nations have Agenda 21/30. If you are interested in the more intelligent conspiracy side the YouTube channels Computing Forever and The Corbett report are interesting.
Thanks for this answer. I can only say that, yes, there are dangers in the loss of freedoms and the increase in surveillance that are occurring, but they are necessary, at the moment at least. And the rich, the powerful, the connected, are almost always in a position to take advantage of ANY situation, even negative ones. It doesn’t mean the danger is concocted. It just means they know how to use it to their gain. The system is fucked up, that’s for sure. But non-compliance with things like mask wearing is a shitty way to rebel against it. The only good way to do that is with voting, and, if necessary, revolution. Which, frankly, is looking more and more needed by the day.
intelligent conspiracy is an oxymoron.
Your arguments about a “New World Order” might have made a modicum of sense pre-2016, but the election of Dictator Donnie has resulted in an anti-Europe, anti-immigration, pro-totalitarian “American First!” concept that renders the logic behind the new order conspiracy moot for all intents and purposes.
Better start a new YouTube conspiracy search for a decimating fear-mongering rant you can adopt and fully embrace like the outdated ones you propose today...
Oh yeah, exactly how many assault rifles do you own???? 🙄
And by the way, can I politely and timidly remind everyone here that it’s good to avoid belittling people with different views to your own, no matter how much you disagree with them. Hillary Clinton’s ‘basket of deplorables’ phrase is very possibly what got Trump elected. I know we’re all pissed off as hell with the situation, whichever side were on. No-one, except those whose wealth has grown as a result of the crisis - and sadly they are many - is happy with what’s going on now. But putting each other into defensive corners with putdowns and harsh language is not going to solve it.
I don’t think Ben was talking about a public health crisis. Also, what exactly is the crucial “freedom” one gives up by wearing a mask? I don’t see it mentioned in the Bill of Rights except the ninth amendment, which, I guarantee you, 99% of the mask deniers don’t even know about. Most, including the president, have never even read the Constitution, although you probably have since you are knowledgeable enough to quote (or misquote) Franklin. He was a scientist after all.
>
if I was positive I would do that...
It's like the Schrödinger's cat paradox...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat
Presuming that everyone is already contaminated has negative side effects on the mind and will eventually drive people insane...
Ok, LL, you beat me to this one. No quote, no matter how good, can apply to all situations for all time and eternity. Whatever his merits, he was no sage. And even the supposed sages are not infallible.
Peter Hitchens in the UK has now had enough.