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Calling for evidence of a second wave, so does that mean there was a first wave?
There's no way in hell that Boris Johnson is getting re-elected. I wish I could say the same for Trump but I'm less certain. What we're seeing here is definitely incompetence, not some genius plan for our lizard overlords to take over the world 😂. Anyway, I think I'm checking out here because I'm not seeing much likelihood that anything I say is going to change your mind @Mark B
I wouldn't call Carl Heneghan stupid or misguided. Here's his research article. There have been randomised control trials. Not as many as he would like but as he said they show a lack of evidence for controlling the spread of viruses.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
They said that about thatcher.
The Covidiots luuuuv Boris Jonsinski.
Call me a dreamer, but wouldn’t it be ace to put all the covid skeptics (maybe brexitoids too?) on a remote island, and they could then be the control population for all the experiments (Viral, economic, cultural) they all dearly wish to run - possibly that way everybody could get what they wanted? - and all these silly discussions would be moot to boot 😆
Dipping back in here briefly. @Mark B did you read the letter the authors of the cloth mask study wrote about their study and its relevance to covid:
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.responses#covid-19-shortages-of-masks-and-the-use-of-cloth-masks-as-a-last-resort
Basically, the health workers wearing cloth masks may not have been washing them etc.
Also, did you read what Henegan wrote in his paper about the twelve studies:
'It is debatable whether any of these results could be applied to the transmission of SARs-CoV-2'
You need to turn a more critical eye towards your own evidence.
Haha, christ. A real life lord of the flies scenario right there.
What I don't understand about the contrarians is their total unwillingness to ever talk about South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam etc... Countries that were exposed early, and put measures in place and got the virus under control. With quarantine, masks, track and trace.
Doesn't fit the narrative, so best ignore them, right?
Instead the "solution" is literally do nothing. Such brilliant minds.
Yeah it’s pretty bad really, more realistic would be move the UK government to somewhere like Stoke on Trent, the people there might then get an appreciation of how complex government is and feel less remote from power, while the politicians would be forced to see how and where much of the population they’re responsible for taking decisions for live.
The decrepit Westminster palace is both a good metaphor and opportunity for this sort of renewal in that country right now, but it’s almost certainly going to be missed...
He is being honest. Ideally you will have study’s specifically for SAR-CoV-2. But the evidence for masks protecting against other viruses is weak.
I met a friend the other day. He was wearing on of those cloth masks with a pattern printed on it. I asked him when he last washed it. He said he hadn’t. He’s been wearing it for 2 months. I doubt this is too unusual.
Yup, bloody farcical.
And don't forget to add China to that list btw. The early and strict lockdown was viewed by many as an insane overreaction at the time, but it was necessary and it worked really really well.
so the problem is not the masks, its the lack of adherence to best practices. Additionally, masks come with a bit of a side note. N95 masks protect the user from the disease, surgical masks protect others from bacteria from the user of the mask, and cloth masks are almost pointless.
N95 masks are best applied to health care workers who need to be protected from the disease. The rest of us can do well enough if most people wear typical surgical style masks. Not because it protects you from the disease as the wearer, but rather limits how much bacteria others are exposed to. Surgeons wear these masks so that their bacteria does not get into the patient. In our current situation, asymptomatic users would be protecting others from the disease far better than if they weren’t wearing a mask. When most people wear masks the spread of the disease is lessened, and some studies imply that perhaps this mild exposure to the disease (small doses) might help people develop slight immunity that avoids severe cases of the disease.
either way...wear a mask, wash them properly, dont touch your face. wash your damn hands.
So @Mark B the world wide mainstream media, Fox News, BBC, CNN..... all news networks have been telling us lie upon lie, even convincing politicians of the world to go along with the lies.
Simple reply to anti maskers.
“Would you rather a possibly infected person cough at you with or without a mask on”.
Next.
You think everything the governments and mainstream media is telling you is true?
When the overwhelming majority agree, upon the evidence of science, then yes.
Were the WMD’s ever found?
We now know that there were probably no wmd exactly because of the media. Your example here actually contradicts your argument.... Sure, mistakes get made from time to time, the media is not perfect, and some news organizations are more trustworthy than others, that's for sure. But the truth tends to come out eventually.
The whole Edward Snowden thing - exposed by mainstream media (The Guardian)
"In the months leading up to war, the Sun, the Times and the Daily Telegraph repeatedly made the case for military action on the basis that WMD existed."
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/isn-t-it-time-british-papers-apologised-for-being-wrong-about-wmd-
Yeah yeah, that's not my point. I'm saying that mistakes do get made, including by the media, but then the media itself often helps to disclose that these mistakes were made.
I'm highly critical of most mainstream media by the way. But there are decent sources there. Certainly The Guardian is one. If the covid response was a coordinated attempt by some group of individuals that were trying to destroy society for their own benefit, it's exactly in a newspaper like the Guardian that we'd be reading about it.
So the government and mainstream media were wrong on a something that caused untold destruction and loss of life. That's the point. You think everything the governments and mainstream media is telling you is true?
Is the government right about what it is presenting now. Like before, they are listening to a small group of advisers who are probably telling them what they want to hear. Anyone who has an opposing view is being dismissed.
Before the lockdown when Neil Ferguson created his model for the government Michael Levitt analysed it and said it was wrong by a massive scale. When someone who has won a Nobel prize for "the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems" thinks you have made a mistake do you contact them to find out what his concerns are or ignore him. He was completely ignored. Fergusons model has proved to be junk.
The govt is clearly wrong about tons of stuff, and I completely understand that ppl don't want to go through another lockdown, because the govt is likely to bungle it all again and there will be massive economic damage for no or little benefit. That doesn't mean lockdown is wrong. It means the current Tory govt are incompetent.
At the time leading upto the war, there wasn’t domestic consensus, let alone international, for using WMD’s to sanction the war. Hardly comparable to the situation we are facing now.
By the way, Levitt's prediction about deaths in America has already been shown wrong.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/08/02/qa-michael-levitt-on-why-there-shouldnt-be-a-lockdown-how-hes-been-tracking-coronavirus/
However, I definitely have sympathy for the idea that at this point, with so much economic damage caused in Europe and the US due to previous incompetent handling, probably another lockdown is not a good idea and strict social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing etc are better ideas. By the way, I hope you noticed that he does advocate mask wearing. @Mark B
Btw, what does this tweet from Germany say?
That’s amusing but I guess it would be difficult to draw 99.942% of the herd surviving as in Sweden.