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Comments
Stop being so hysterical. Our country isn’t on “the brink of destruction”. This virus is a dip in the road and we’ll survive this and come out stronger in the end.
Name one system that is perfect and I’ll stop posting in this thread. We do have the best though. Lots of people trying to get in, agree.
+r0!!
There may well be treatments before there is a vaccine.
If countries clampdown hard and reduce the transmission rates low enough and get testing in place and infrastucture in plac to trace contacts of infected people (in order to have exposed people remain quarantined for 21 days), then they can loosen restrictions as long as there is constant monitoring to detect flare-ups. Travel restrictions should really be in place, too.
The U.S. as a country still has not moved to having enough testing in place to do that. Some states will take that on but the current federal government doesn't actually believe in governance and so has left it to states to compete against themselves for resources and has provided no leadership in establishing specific procedures to follow.
Had we acted in late January and early-February, the U.S. would be in much better shape. Fewer dead. We'd already be getting back to something more like normal. But we missed that boat.
The success of the lockdowns in mitigating the impact is being misrepresented by some in the conservative politisphere as meaning there was an over-reaction when the reason that things are not as bad as predicted is that places like California moved aggressively.
To be fair, that is a strawman, because no system is perfect. But I would strongly argue that most European systems are better when it comes to healthcare. The US is the only country that allows citizens to go bankrupt if they fall ill. 👩⚕️
I really don't understand why so many Americans feel the need to assert exceptionalism. It is very strange. As an American, I have never understood the national mania with asserting all things American as "the best".
A lot of people are getting laid off. They need to go out and find a job. Who cares if they're a little sick?
Thank God life is getting back to normal! And who cares if cats are catching a mutation?
After the Edward Snowden incident, I noticed a lot of gov contractors being more 'Merica #1, I just got a new Colt/Reminigton to add to my gun collection, putting American flags on their cars. The few that were Democrats never spoke politics again in the office. And this was on a military base in one of the most liberal states in the US. That's just the way it is. No one wants to feel like a traitor.
Are these comments ironic or serious:
"Who cares if they're a little sick?"
and
"And who cares if cats are catching a mutation?"
I am hoping ironic. If not, let's discuss.
That sounds like the worst system in the world. Far better to go bankrupt and potentially be ruined for life > @robertreynolds said:
I wasn't talking about the virus. I was talking about the systematic destruction of our government and the increasing income inequality - all of which are the goals of the far right and, apparently, supported by the rest of the right as they turn a blind eye and say, "meh, it's fine."
The pandemic is shining a light on the roaches in office.
Now that's a rant... good job.
In what way is this embarrassing... it's got candid replies from all corners.
In Japan, you only pay for heathcare/routine checkups when you're healthy.
If you're sick, then healthcare is free.
And they have lots of sick old people.
True, their economy has sunk over the past 20+ years, that's why the middleclass have prepared by putting their money into gold.
@lairdhenn
Whomever says Trump is a xenophobe strictly because of his travel ban restriction from China is misinformed. I don't believe anyone here did that.
Many airlines (which are businesses governed by anti-discrimination laws) halted flights to/from China, well before Trump's travel ban restriction of flights from China.
And nobody here is directly blaming Trump for the pandemic or the deaths, they are blaming him for his poor leadership, his selfishness, his ignorance, his lack of experience, his lies, his flip flopping, his down-playing Covid-19's seriousness, his taking advantage of the pandemic, his bragging about banging fashion models when discussing the death rate models, etc.
This is a rant thread. Rants can be embarrassing. Good job.
It was only ‘30 seconds’ before the utter fuckng idiot, said it was a hoax and only flu. So if it was up to him we should have all just carried on, as normal, regardless of who dropped dead.
I’m sorry you don’t feel the need to respond when people say your country sucks. I feel differently, especially when they’re totally wrong.
He never said either of those things.
In my opinion the replacement organisation for world health to supplant the extant WHO is probably best arranged as a kind of global insurance to fund it. This pandemic will quite likely show that we in the wealthy advanced countries who are handling the pandemic effectively and with cohesive strategy are probably not going to be the ones who need help the most. The Global South is going to need it when they get hit severely and that’s likely to be very soon after most of us in the Global North are starting to consider that we’re past our peak (what will prove to be the first peak of many, of course).
Let's try to vent about public figures and less feedback on community members that we don't agree with. That's a recipe for thread shutdowns.
When you feel the need to defend the public figure just point out his critics (external to this forum) and avoid starting food fights.
No one was ever enlightened by being called out as a idiot. Do that makes the case against the accuser as someone without social skills or the ability to debate on facts and issues.
"He did say that." just opens a rat hole of "did too"/"did not". Often based upon splitting hairs over what a sentence means.
So I'll rant about those people... Trump supporters exhibit the qualities of a cult defending their leader against the mob of unbelievers. That is a problem in a free society. No one should be above the law. We are being managed by a personality cult. You may feel otherwise but it will only indicate to me that you're exhibiting cult member patterns of denial.
Bernie followers exhibit a similar approach to debate.
Independent, rational discussion of public issues is really hard to find... and the audience for it is even smaller. Everyone has a position and keeps lobbing rockets from their foxholes. WWI has lessons for this approach to conflict. Most ongoing civil wars too...
the middle east has conflicts spanning millennia that show this type of defensive ability to listen.
I have replied a few times in this thread to some of Max's overgeneralizations and misrepresentations. I considered pointing out to him that Germany itself is not responsible for its own form of government -- that it was largely dictated to it by Britain, the U.S. and France and that it shouldn't be taken as some sign of eternal superiority.
I have no need to believe that America is superior to anyone. It strikes me as an unhealthy obsession of some in America that America be "the best".
Asserting that the U.S. is the best is not the same as saying the U.S. doesn’t suck.
Saying that the system of government is flawed doesn’t mean that the system is terrible either.
The only way to improve something is to be able to recognize its flaws. The U.S. has flaws. The system of governance has flaws that we should correct.
In my opinion, the era of Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump has laid bare some structural flaws and some weaknesses in our Constitution that have been so obvious in the past. Our system of government has some built-in assumptions about political actors overall working in good faith -- and a faith that good governance is an asset. They did not foresee, for instance, that there might be an individual elected President with tyrannical instincts AND a judiciary and congress accepting of tyranny.
Believing Trump is terrible doesn’t mean that America is terrible. Trump is not America even if his followers think so. There is an almost cult-like inability for some in America to disambiguate Trump from America. Sadly, at the moment, a lot of people outside the country make that same mistake.
I have tried (to no avail) correct some of Max’s misunderstandings of America . For instance, he continues to treat America as a unified state with uniform policies which is like treating Germany or Italy or Spain by themselves as Europe or treating Europe as a single entity. When he talks about how many more deaths there are in the U.S. he ignores that some states are dealing with it more effectively than most countries in Europe though some are not. Per capita, many European states are doing worse than America as a whole and far worse than, say, California.
But all of that is immaterial to the question of whether it makes sense to think of America as the best or superior to all others. It isn't and that isn't an insult to America. Perhaps, America will re-connect with those things that have made it great in the past, but that remains to be seen.
It is, like many countries, great and flawed. At the moment, the flaws are putting lives in America and around the world in danger. Countries that don’t act to clamp down and wipe it the virus
@espiegel123
A well thought out response. I’m going to reread again this weekend before I respond. Thanks though, lots of food for thought.
Have a great weekend!
Agreed!
Trump is xenophobic because he violated the constitution of the United States and the Supreme Court called him on it.
Trump is a racist because of birtherism directed at Barack Obama
Trump is a racist because he insinuated that judges with Mexican heritage can't do their jobs
Trump has insinuated that ted cruz couldn't be an evangelical christian because he is cuban
nobody blamed trump for the pandemic
everybody blamed trump for his response to the pandemic ie: these documented lies... when he new about it, calling it a Hoax, 1 person from china, go away by a miracle, 15 people going down to zero, it will go away by some people just going to work
Your feigned outrage is entertaining and tasty like a lays potato chip
you've lost respect for the community because of name calling which Your president is infamous for, for misinformation which your president is infamous for, and for blaming which your president is infamous for.... I'm sorry but that is not how credibility actually works.
I'd ask where is your outrage for your president but then again it's not my place I'm only giving an analysis of your statement like you've done of this thread. If I were a betting man with equal temperament I would say that according to the criteria of your judgements that you should be defending this thread and outraged at your President but you obviously hold him to another standard albeit not a higher one.
can you imagine how many heads exploded when real American patriots heard the president say what he said about John McCain's service to our country, his being tortured, captured and held captive...His heroism.... and how he lied constantly about the reason black athletes were kneeling claiming they were disrespecting the country and the military when he knew that they were acting on a suggestion from a member of our military on a way to respectfully protest discrimination and brutality.... I'm sure president bone spurs didn't pull the wool over any real patriots eyes with those shenanigans!!!