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The Nightmare that is a Reality
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Don’t take the horse dewormer though:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/21/mississippi-ivermectin-covid-surge-livestock/
There is a spate of poisonings in Mississippi from ivermectin purchased in agricultural feed supply stores. These folks will take a horse drug praised by Fox News instead of a vaccine recommended by the FDA and their own doctors.
Anyway, I’m waiting for the launch of a new synth I heard about called EMP. That should solve all our musical problems.
At the end of every zombie movie, the vaccine is rushed into the bloodstream of the brave scientist and after a moment of hesitation — will it work? will it kill him? — he is saved. The implication is clear: So, too, is humanity saved. I NEVER expected a third act where the desperate populace rejects the science that will save them.
Trump at his rally last night advised the audience to get the vaccine, and he was booed.
Are you sure they booed and didn’t neigh.
At some point (if they are still alive at that point) every single populist leader turns out not to be stupid enough for the herd.
100% horsepucky
This view is antithetical to scientific publications and knowledge. Natural immunity while it exists is not “better” than training your body with vaccines - it’s part and parcel of a effed up “purity culture” that exists to troll, control, and monetize the gullible (thanks to years of bogus nutritional diet bullshit)
And apparently the OP cares not for the already endangered immunosuppressed like cancer patients etc
WE ALL IN A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY GIVE UP SOME OF OUR INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES FOR THE SAFETY AND WELL-BEING OF OTHERS
Ya’ll wanna go Gault… go live in a shack 1000’s of miles from here and quit pretending you have democracy as a concern.
End Rant
All indefensible nonsense. Natural immunity is best. If one has serious underlying medical conditions which make natural immunity impossible, get vaccinated. I mean, seriously… What are you waiting for? For everyone else, it’s a choice.
This seems to be an example of people hunting for a data set to support their priors. Everyone in public health would love for their to be a miracle cure. A lot of them have examined the ivermectin data and concluded that the huge impact that many have trumpeted just isn't there. Maybe it will turn out to have some benefit, but those claims that ivermectin is hugely impactful seems not to be there. The analysis of the India data many were trumpeting was highly flawe> @NeuM said:
This "natural immunity is best" that you keep repeating is nonsense. The data shows that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines provide more effective protection than having been infected.
Not to mention that becoming infected enough to develop immunity "naturally" also runs a significant risk of death or serious illness.
You keep repeating this despite that there is strong consensus about this amongst epidemiologists.
LOL. Right. The vaccines are “so effective” they’re talking about people getting a third booster shot now.
As I say, I’m not opposed to people choosing to get vaccinated. That’s a personal choice. You have no right to force anyone to get a vaccine for a virus with a 1-2% (worldwide) death rate. It’s a personal choice, not the decision of authoritarian governments.
No matter how often you say that "natural immunity" is best, it still won't be true. Spend some time reading about what epidemiologist have to say about that.
The notion that requiring vaccination is akin to authoritarianism is just silly. Vaccines have often been required in the U.S. This whole objection to vaccination as a sort of civic duty is a relatively new phenomenon. And the language that you use completely ignores that the primary reason to get vaccinated is to protect other people -- not yourself. That's just a bonus.
I know that I won't convince you.
If you want to make it about being a personal choice then the financial burden for the pandemic should shift to the people that choose not to get vaccinated.
It doesn’t matter what I say, unless I agree with you, as you are entrenched in being a contrarian and a walking logical fallacy.
Best wishes and peace to you. I’m out.
PS just asking questions man
Do you ever post anything about music here?
Are you as misrepresentative of facts as you are here?
Outskies 🤙✌️
“Required immunization” would be the definition of what an authoritarian government would require. Are you really going to challenge the definition of words now?
Do you? Are you?
Yes and no respectively
Why are you rooting against the vaccine? It’s really bizarre. It’s like you believe the government — which is made of people — is incapable of doing good, and the relative success of this medical-logistical feat somehow undermines your worldview. I suppose that in a pure libertarian society there is no public health infrastructure and therefore no vaccination program? Which I guess leads to the juvenile fantasy that somehow the human body will cure itself of all ills naturally.
Vaccination has been required in American life for decades.
Are you not vaccinated? Did you attend public school at any point in your life? How do you think you came by your measles, polio, and diphtheria immunity?
I don't know if it is that bizarre. I can kind of see where NeuM is coming from but I don't think he is correct in his facts or conclusions.
In "normal times" (pre 2020) I would be very worried about "people in power" (govts, corporations, unions, employers) telling "people without power" (the workers) what medical procedures they must have.
There is a sensible argument that some people are concerned about what goes in their body. They don't drink, smokes, eat junk food or take drugs. So it goes against the grain when they are told they have to have a jab of a relativly new vaccine.
But this is not "normal times". This is a war. Just like WWI and WWII.
In wars, many rights go out of the window for the greater good of a country or society.
In those world wars the government didn't just order you to wear a mask or have a jab. They handed ordinary men a uniform and a gun and said "you are a soldier now - we're shipping you to the other side of the world to a battlefield where you will have to fight". Now that's a REAL imposition on your freedoms. A mask or a jab is nothing compared to that.
So, I'm happy to follow the government's advice on COVID - because we are at war. In my case it is not the USA govt but the Australian govt. Unlike state governments in the USA, our State governments are all advocating masks, vaccine, and lockdown to combat COVID.
I have had my first jab and can't wait until I get the next one in 7 weeks time. And when a booster comes along I'll be in line for it. The last place I want to end up at the moment is a hospital overrun with COVID cases...
Nobody said the vaccine protects you forever. So it is no surprise that you will need a booster. That doesn't prove the original vaccine is not effective.
While we're here: nobody said that the vaccine protects 100% of people 100% of the time. The anti-vaxers keep saying "if the vaccine works why do vaccinated people still get COVID?". Because you can still get it if you are vaccinated - but you will be far less sick if you are vaccinated.
The other one is: the COVID particles are smaller than the fabric weave of a mask, so the mask is useless. Again, nobody said a cheap cloth mask is 100% effective every time. But having something covering your face gives you a far better chance than having nothing covering your face. With nothing covering your face you have NO protection at all.
I have noticed that the anti -vaxxers seem to "conveniently misunderstand" the promises science makes about vaccines, masks and lockdowns etc. So, when something is not 100% effective the anti-vaxers can claim the measures are totally bogus. A cheap tactic.
Just a warning to keep it civil, people.
This issue, like way too many these days, has become intensively politicised and polarised and is now yet another line in the sand dividing equally-convinced tribes. The Audiobus forum is not here to allow said tribes to fight it out, but it can be a unique opportunity to engage those from the dreaded and despised Other Side in discourse, if we're able to actually maintain civility.
Keep in mind that both sides here are generally equally convinced by the information that they've been exposed to, and both are equally well-intentioned. I don't think there are any Bad Guys here, and just because someone is disagreeing on a particular issue doesn't make them stupid, either. No one here deserves to be treated as villain or idiot.
We're living in a time where the information we take in is increasingly segregated between groups, so there's a good chance that you too would come to similar conclusions as the Other Side, if you were exposed to the same stuff. But worse, we each weight the information we receive differently, based on our core beliefs and whether we consider the source of said information part of our in group, or not. Honestly, very few of us have any chance of actually perceiving the world objectively and without bias – it seems to be little more than luck of the draw if we managed to stumble on the correct conclusions: a function entirely of our background and environment.
So if the person you're arguing with seems to be coming to crazy conclusions, it's not because they're crazy, or stupid, or malevolent. Their window on the world and accompanying filters are just very different.
Being aggressive or rude can only have one outcome: more polarisation. And that means we all lose, no matter what "side" you're championing. There's no room for actually approaching reality if we're too busy doubling down.
So... just don't be a dick, whatever side you're debating for 😊
I was surprised to hear my US State’s hospital beds are almost completely full. I live in Oregon and they definitely are advocating masks, vaccine, maybe not quite a lockdown, etc. Apparently, the system has usually relied on efficiency to keep hospital beds unoccupied, but that doesn’t work with a virulent pandemic. Already people are dying due to things unrelated to Covid, because there was no capacity to help them due to high number of Covid hospitalizations.
Interesting article
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
Not good.
I think there will see a major change in the public's attitude when:
children start dying in large numbers. Anyone dying is awful but with kids the impact will be huge. Footage of crying mothers every night on the TV news will have a big impact.
a state or city has it's medical system collapse due to the weight of COVID cases. Footage of patients dying in hospital beds in the car park will have huge impact.
I hope we don't ever get there.
You were at a Trump rally? :-)
So, how did Donald react to being booed?
@simon: vaccination requirements are not new. These people treating them as authoritarianism are out of touch with historic norms...and disconnected from making choices to serve the wider community.
Calling them authoritarian is a new thing. There shouldn't need to be a requirement. In a healthy society people would be seeking out as many ways as possible to make their communities safe for others...particularly the most vulnerable.
The idea that getting vaccinated and wearing masks to benefit other people's health shouldn't be a hard sell. Mandates shouldn't be needed, but the U.S. has a significant number of people that don't really believe in a big we.
That was a strange response... you said there should be some correlation ... correlation shows up ... NOPE.
It was also a demonstration of the scientific method, rather than 'following the science". Scientific method... Come up with an idea about something, develop a hypothesis of what other things might be true if your idea is right, develop a way to test hypothesis -- Ivermectin shows promise of being effective, look for places where it's been given regularly, check covid rates there. Discover the outcome is in accordance with the hypothesis, meaning it hasn't been falsified, nor that it has been verified either.
Also I'm a little confused about this vaccine immunity being better than having had the disease. Immunity from the vaccine recognise one protein, the spike protein. Natural resistance recognises 28 proteins.
The studies apparently say that immunity from having had covid plus the vaccine is better than just having had covid. But is it 50% better? 5% better? Its not specified (as far as I know). You'd think the broader range of natural immunity would be the most important thing. But I don't know.
Here's the reference for that, from the pro-vaccine but also pro- prophylaxis John Campbell.
Also I appreciate the equanimity in your response @Michael
Children are not going to start dying in large numbers because COVID and its variants affect elderly adults and those with serious underlying health problems. Not kids in general. This is not new information.
I was speculating about where it will go over the next few months/years and how it will change public opionion.
Not sure about your statement that "it affects elderly adults and those with serious underlying health problems".... are you suggesting it ONLY affects elderly adults and those with serious underlying health problems?
I've read lots of articles about perfectly healthy young or middle aged people who get it and are seriously ill or die.
P.S. while I'm here, you still haven't got back to me about why you think govenments worldwide (of all political sides) have adopted a COVID vax/masks/lockdown policy that you say "the science and maths don't support". Why would governments & their health departments do that? COVID is a disaster for them politically and they would want to beat it as quickly as possible. Surely they would be opting for the most effective solution?
It is absolutely not true that COVID only affects people with serious underlying health problems. MANY MANY people with no serious health conditions (including people in the prime of life) have died.
You keep saying this and IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. Many people with no underlying health conditions have died from covid. Many of come near to dying as well. You are spreading misinformation.
Additionally, no one knows the long term side-effects of long COVID and whether infections will give rise to health problems later.
For those wondering why some people don't get onboard with masks/vax/lockdowns.... it's some of the "information" they read. Tonight I was reading some comments from ONE story on Breitbart (right wing USA web news site).
You can't make this stuff up:
I choose to live with my natural immunity to this sub 1% mortality rate and an unapproved vax that could cause more harm than good. See, I love freedom.
The virus has a 5 in 10000 chance of killing you and you can relapse with the vaccine. It's treatable with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. What happened to common sense scared little sheeple?
Doctors from around the world are now saying the people that took this experimental vaccine will be dropping dead starting this next flu season.
Maybe she should read the article from the E.U. showing nearly 1 million serious side effects and 20 thousand deaths in like 5 months!
FREEDOM TO NOT GET THE EXPERIMENT..MOST ANIMALS DIED FROM IT
Over the past 2 months at least cases and deaths among vaccinated outpaced those among those smart enough to stay away from the mystery shot. Good luck with your heart inflammation and spike proteins sheeple TWA.
Morbidity is higher with the vaxed.
It's gene therapy, not a vaccine.
The unvaccinated are not dangerous. They have natural antibodies. The vaccinated have graphene oxide in their bodies that suppress natural immunity. The vaccinated also have hiv and aborted fetal cells. When the fall flu season hits then the vaccinated will suffer cytokine storms which will cause strokes, heart failure and many other de adly reactions.
The cdc, nih, ama, fauchi and gates know these things are true and are using the media, medical community, Hollywood and every means possible to hide the truth. Your only hope is that those medical professionals who have been ostracized will find a remedy to these de adly vaccines.
If the vax is so great why are the vaccinated needing hospitalization?
Everyone that I personally know that has Covid right now are at home dealing with it and are unvaccinated. The ones I know that are vaccinated had to be admitted to the hospital. My neighbor down the street just got out and she was a vaccinated person. You need to read more and stay away from television! I know quite a few in my church that are home with it and didn't get vaccinated. I haven't taken that shot and haven been are Covid positive people and have yet to get sick. There's just no fixing stupid!
Covid has a survival rate of 99.75+% in people under 70. Hardly a "death sentence."
No doubt the virus can be deadly. However, a significant portion were those 80+ suffering from serious other conditions including cancer, Alzheimer's, emphysema, heart disease, etc. We upended society to buy those at the end of life perhaps a few more months or a year. Good idea?
The only thing that this vaccine does that's a proven fact so far is that it makes big pharma big money.
The Government is violating the Nuremberg Code by implementing forced vaccinations.
The FDA is supposed to be approving the Pfizer Covid vaccine tomorrow. It has only a 39% efficacy when approved vaccines are supposed to show at least 50%. It also has caused much bodily injury and death. It is unconscionable that they will get away with it.
Uh...population control...they think our population is "unsustainable" so they're taking out those who get the vaccine. The unvaccinated will inherit the Earth.
had a sister in law ( had is the key word ) and I'm pissed ... healthy as anybody, got that F'n poke 3 weeks ago ... week later in the hospital .. 3 days later in ICU ... 4 days later 8/19 passed away .... Huntsville Alabama ..... any SOB that makes demands for that F'n poke needs to be pushing up daisies .......
A neighbor received the vaxxxx….twice…became extremely sick…couldn’t move for a week both times……. I’m beginning to believe that these vaccines…..IS COVID-19(flu) …and those that receive the vax, are the SUPER SPREADERS……
Because its about getting the vax passport number . Nothing to do with a virus .
One report said 45,000 vaccine deaths. That was someone in the business of compiling medical statistics. It’s being intentionally covered up.
Pfizer vaccine destroys T cells, weakens the immune system
Ok have we all come to the realization that Covid is nothing but a glorified flu, lockdowns and masks aren't pur strategy come flu season, are they? So why are they in this case?.When are people gonna stop playing along with the "Covid is dangerous" game. SICK TO DEATH OF IT. Newsom was the hysterical spearhead for the lying disinformation about this illness. "Pandemic" does not mean PLAGUE. Plagues are seriously deadly, pandemics are just very contagious. This is no deadly plague. Covid is a lightweight disease, it has a comparable death rate to the cmmon flu and that fact is always obscured if not downright buried. I'm sick of the way too complacent attitude I see in Americans who won't stand up and call out the lies spread about this illness and refuse to be bullied into vaccines or masks. Where is our fighting spirit? Could we even win a WWII anymore? WHERE IS IT?? Too many people are lazy 'go along to get alongs'. Disgraceful.
The vaccinated are becoming modern day lepers, they are dying from simple colds and flues and populating the hospitals with righteous indignation for the unvaccinated.
We're talking about a "vaccine" here..... that has resulted in immediate miscarriages. Not the entire medical field of women issues. You're not ever going to get Polio.... because you've been vaccinated. The covid jab is not a vaccine. Vaccinated people are gettin covid , get very ill and some are dying.
Of the 6,985 deaths reported as of June 25, 22% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 15% occurred within 24 hours and 38% occurred in people who became ill within 48 hours of being vaccinated.
Reverend Jesse Jackson and his wife , both "vaccinated", now very ill and hospitalized with covid. Melissa Joan hart "vaccinated", now very sick with covid recovering at home. Just to name some famous "axed"people it doesn't work. It's not a vaccine.
The vaccinated are getting sick at a higher rate and are shedding virus at a rate orders of magnitude beyond the unvaccinated. The vaccinated should be marked for public safety.
This is just a small sample....