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Ukraine

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Comments

  • @wim said:
    Thanks @NeuM. I’ll read all of those. Forgive me if I don’t report back on results. I’m an order of magnitude past my preferred politics discussion quota for the year already.

    Well, alright then!

  • I think if you had to pick a single word biography for Vladimir Putin, I'd choose "spymaster".

    A spymaster works entirely outside of international legal or moral/ethical frameworks to advice a country's position in the world.

    The single word I'd have to place on Joe Biden might be "alterboy" with a strong sense of moral code and service to a higher purpose.

    A former US Spymaster has a good take on the long game Spymaster Putin is likely pursuing:

    https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/a-cia-cold-warrior-on-the-intelligence-war-over-ukraine/

    This game will should several decades.

  • @McD said:
    I think if you had to pick a single word biography for Vladimir Putin, I'd choose "spymaster".

    A spymaster works entirely outside of international legal or moral/ethical frameworks to advice a country's position in the world.

    The single word I'd have to place on Joe Biden might be "alterboy" with a strong sense of moral code and service to a higher purpose.

    A former US Spymaster has a good take on the long game Spymaster Putin is likely pursuing:

    https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/a-cia-cold-warrior-on-the-intelligence-war-over-ukraine/

    This game will should several decades.

    I'd assign no such honor to Biden. There are enough mentions in Hunter Biden's emails about his father and the suggestion he was getting kickbacks from China to warrant an investigation into both of them. And by the way, this investigation into Hunter's business entanglements started in 2019 and still hasn't concluded.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fbi-investigating-hunter-biden-for-money-laundering-report/

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/what-we-know-about-hunter-bidens-deal-with-a-chinese-energy-company/

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/hunter-biden-tax-investigtation/index.html

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/secret-service-agents-intervened-in-hunter-biden-gun-incident-report/ar-BB1eXprk

  • @LinearLineman said:

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @ervin… under normal circumstances, yes. But when a human feels threatened all bets are off. As I said, only 90%… there are 10%. (Just a guesstimate) that can override their amygdalas and be self sacrificing or at least “Christian”. I’m probably not one of them.

    I was (and often still am) inclined to think that way as well, that's why I found the book's examples quite surprising. It's not about ideal conditions. Most people apparently do not lose their positive characteristics under duress, either.

    Then why is there so much horror in the world if people > @ervin said:

    @cian said:

    @ervin said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @ervin… under normal circumstances, yes. But when a human feels threatened all bets are off. As I said, only 90%… there are 10%. (Just a guesstimate) that can override their amygdalas and be self sacrificing or at least “Christian”. I’m probably not one of them.

    I was (and often still am) inclined to think that way as well, that's why I found the book's examples quite surprising. It's not about ideal conditions. Most people apparently do not lose their positive characteristics under duress, either.

    In natural disasters most people are typically at their best, rather than their worst.

    Indeed, a case in point.

    Natural disasters are not generally a threat to a person’s own well being, or the instinct to protect one’s family (whether accurate or imagined). Indeed, people risked their lives to protect Jews during wwll or smuggle slaves in 1850. That is the 10% I’m talking about. As I said, the world would be a dimensionally better place if most people were as you describe them. Why isn’t it, then?

    What if the ratio is the opposite though? Why do you think 90% of the people need to be bad in order for things to be less than ideal? You have just recently witnessed what a horrible difference a single person can make (both in your own country and now in Russia).

  • This country don’t even border about its own southern border, why go start a war in a foreign country in another continent? The rabbit hole is deep if you all care to look.

  • @NeuM said:
    I'd assign no such honor to Biden.

    Joe solved a huge problem for the US, IMHO. But he's just a placeholder and the huge problem is asking for a re-match. I just wished "checks and balances" held. They didn't. I wish "white color corruption" and tax cheating we're enforced. I wish money laundering was investigated and prosecuted, etc. I wish... I wish... We live if a very corrupt world, my friend and we're growing further and further apart.

    We all would like the same sense of security, prosperity and hope for the future but we're being played and chaos serves the powerful to stay in power. Still, there's fight left in the common man. It's just a shame we're fighting each other and missing the real enemies of the people.

    (1) Empires rise and fall to be (2) replaced by new empires (Go to 1).

  • edited February 2022

    Deleted

  • edited February 2022

    @McD said:

    @NeuM said:
    I'd assign no such honor to Biden.

    Joe solved a huge problem for the US, IMHO. But he's just a placeholder and the huge problem is asking for a re-match. I just wished "checks and balances" held. They didn't. I wish "white color corruption" and tax cheating we're enforced. I wish money laundering was investigated and prosecuted, etc. I wish... I wish... We live if a very corrupt world, my friend and we're growing further and further apart.

    We all would like the same sense of security, prosperity and hope for the future but we're being played and chaos serves the powerful to stay in power. Still, there's fight left in the common man. It's just a shame we're fighting each other and missing the real enemies of the people.

    (1) Empires rise and fall to be (2) replaced by new empires (Go to 1).

    I find it useful to think of things this way: Empires are people. Governments are people. The rich and the poor alike are just people. Presidents, Prime Ministers and dictators are just people. When an individual understands the motivations of individuals (even just a little), they have already begun to crack one of the greatest mysteries of life.

  • @NeuM said:

    @McD said:

    @NeuM said:
    I'd assign no such honor to Biden.

    Joe solved a huge problem for the US, IMHO. But he's just a placeholder and the huge problem is asking for a re-match. I just wished "checks and balances" held. They didn't. I wish "white color corruption" and tax cheating we're enforced. I wish money laundering was investigated and prosecuted, etc. I wish... I wish... We live if a very corrupt world, my friend and we're growing further and further apart.

    We all would like the same sense of security, prosperity and hope for the future but we're being played and chaos serves the powerful to stay in power. Still, there's fight left in the common man. It's just a shame we're fighting each other and missing the real enemies of the people.

    (1) Empires rise and fall to be (2) replaced by new empires (Go to 1).

    I find it useful to think of things this way: Empires are people. Governments are people. The rich and the poor alike are just people. Presidents, Prime Ministers and dictators are just people. When an individual understands the motivations of individuals (even just a little), they have already begun to crack one of the greatest mysteries of life.

    Damn… I’ve been approaching the whole universe as atoms… no wonder I’m so confused. This people thing just might fix me.

    History, anthropology, sociology, psychology all worthless then?

  • @McD said:

    @NeuM said:

    @McD said:

    @NeuM said:
    I'd assign no such honor to Biden.

    Joe solved a huge problem for the US, IMHO. But he's just a placeholder and the huge problem is asking for a re-match. I just wished "checks and balances" held. They didn't. I wish "white color corruption" and tax cheating we're enforced. I wish money laundering was investigated and prosecuted, etc. I wish... I wish... We live if a very corrupt world, my friend and we're growing further and further apart.

    We all would like the same sense of security, prosperity and hope for the future but we're being played and chaos serves the powerful to stay in power. Still, there's fight left in the common man. It's just a shame we're fighting each other and missing the real enemies of the people.

    (1) Empires rise and fall to be (2) replaced by new empires (Go to 1).

    I find it useful to think of things this way: Empires are people. Governments are people. The rich and the poor alike are just people. Presidents, Prime Ministers and dictators are just people. When an individual understands the motivations of individuals (even just a little), they have already begun to crack one of the greatest mysteries of life.

    Damn… I’ve been approaching the whole universe as atoms… no wonder I’m so confused. This people thing just might fix me.

    History, anthropology, sociology, psychology all worthless then?

    All that matters is what happens on the world we inhabit and the people we interact with.

  • @NeuM said:
    All that matters is what happens on the world we inhabit and the people we interact with.

    Have you heard about this space telescope that will get closer to hearing the noise from the Big Bang?
    We need to stay open to the possibility of the seemingly impossible. Keep that child mind alive.

  • @McD said:

    @NeuM said:
    All that matters is what happens on the world we inhabit and the people we interact with.

    Have you heard about this space telescope that will get closer to hearing the noise from the Big Bang?
    We need to stay open to the possibility of the seemingly impossible. Keep that child mind alive.

    All that money spent looking for a needle, when Earth is a pin cushion.

  • @knewspeak said:
    All that money spent looking for a needle, when Earth is a pin cushion.

    Well, I'm sure it created a bunch of good playing jobs so it's a form of STEM welfare.

  • @McD said:

    @knewspeak said:
    All that money spent looking for a needle, when Earth is a pin cushion.

    Well, I'm sure it created a bunch of good playing jobs so it's a form of STEM welfare.

    Studying about our place in the Grand Old Scheme is a good quest but I hope projects like this receive adequate funding too.

    https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/project-goal

  • edited February 2022

    Probably most beneficial outcome will be that after hard sanctions against Russia, they will embrace using Bitcoin (they're already looking in that direction, and Ukraine too) to avoid SWIFT restrictions applied on Russia and other capital flow limitations originating from sanctions. Which will then force USA do the same otherwise they stay behind...

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/21/crypto-a76437
    https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ukraine-legalizes-bitcoin

    Those things are happening in the shadow in last weeks and mainstream media aren't too much concentrating on them, but there is financial storm coming.

  • edited February 2022

    @ervin, I’m not characterizing people as bad. The situation, as Gurdjieff and others have pointed out, is that we’re unconscious… living in a dream/illusion most of us will never wake up from. That unconscious condition plus our primitive survival instincts keep the human race enslaved to the states of fear and greed.

    That one guy can do so much damage (is Jesus included in that group?) is testimony to the lack of ability we have to consciously resist outside influences that are antithetical to our better natures.
    If Jesus existed, I believe that is what he meant by “sin”. Sin = unconsciousness. Then, of course, unconscious, power seeking minds, corrupted that concept and transformed it into a weapon of fear.

    That’s what I have come to think after almost six decades of adulthood.

  • @BiancaNeve said:

    @Sawiton said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Sawiton said:

    @Korakios said:
    It's all about energy and money

    And old, fat, white guys who can’t find their shriveled manhoods under rolls of belly fat.

    Ah, the classic position when one has no clue what’s really going on… it must be racism!

    Old, fat, (insert adjective here) guys… Better?

    Nah that’s ageist and body shaming ……

    and possibly sexist…

  • @McD said:
    Joe solved a huge problem for the US, IMHO. But he's just a placeholder and the huge problem is asking for a re-match. I just wished "checks and balances" held. They didn't. I wish "white color corruption" and tax cheating we're enforced. I wish money laundering was investigated and prosecuted, etc. I wish... I wish... We live if a very corrupt world, my friend and we're growing further and further apart.

    Biden was the senator for Delaware, which is the US center for tax evasion/money laundering. He's not going to do anything to address those issues, he's far too close to it (the same applies to the UK which is a massive offshore/tax evasion/money laundering financial center).

  • @McD said:
    I think if you had to pick a single word biography for Vladimir Putin, I'd choose "spymaster".

    People really need to stop with this bullshit. He was a bureaucrat in the KGB who essentially did middle management. He wasn't a spy, or some George Smiley character.

    He's a smart strategic guy, but he was formed by the brutal post Soviet world of dueling oligarchs. His experiences in St Petersburg/Moscow city politics during the 1990s are what formed him.

    The single word I'd have to place on Joe Biden might be "alterboy" with a strong sense of moral code and service to a higher purpose.

    His senatorial career was built around protecting/advancing the interests of Delaware which is the US offshore/tax evasion center. For a long time he was called the senator for MBNA.

  • @yug said:

    Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, 3rd largest in the world, in exchange for security assurances from the US, the UK and Russia.

    This isn't true. The nuclear weapons were Russian (they had the launch codes - there was nothing that the Ukraine could do with them). And they were a problem for the Ukraine as they were unable to maintain them.

  • @NeuM said:

    Are you suggesting Russia is the modern day equivalent of Nazi-era Germany? I don't agree with that, despite V. Putin being essentially a dictator. I'd say China is the far more dangerous superpower right now. And the lack of criticism of China in the current administration for their slave labor camps and brainwashing programs for dissidents is very troubling.

    I'm not sure China really qualifies as a superpower, but if you look in terms of what they've done globally the US is far scarier than Russia or China. It's currently occupying Syria, stole the Afghan central bank reserves (condemning maybe a million to starvation), has been responsible for multiple coups in S. America in the last 15 years, is involved in multiple wars in Africa and the US military is one of the largest carbon emitters in the world. And it's using it's control of the global financial system to destroy the economies of Venezuela, Iran (and attempting to do so to Russia and China).

    China is not sending its ships/planes to buzz US waters/airspace. The US is doing this to Chinese waters/airspace. China seems to be seriously pursuing a far less militarized foreign policy than the US. One can argue about China internally (which is difficult because it's hard to separate propaganda from reality), but externally its been pretty reasonable so far.

    Also Putin is not a dictator. It's a poor comparison that leads to misunderstandings about how Russia works. He's very powerful in Russia, but so are the heads of various organizations (FSB, military, Gazprom), regional governors and (to a degree - Putin tamed them) Oligarchs. He's been able to lead Russia because either he was very popular, or latterly because he's less unpopular than any plausible alternative (yes the elections/TV are sort of rigged, but not enough to explain his longevity).

  • @NeuM said:

    @wim said:

    @vasilymilovidov said:

    What's frightening in all of this is that it seems like America want this war as much as Putin.

    I'm not too worried. IMO the saber rattling is more a case of diplomatic incompetence coupled with seizing the opportunity to shift focus toward anything other than US domestic issues. True, if coupled with resolve this would be dangerous, but there is none.

    This is going to play out amongst the people closest to it without any substantive (albeit annoying) interference from the US this time. Thankfully.

    (I know I'm going to regret making this post. I'm noting in advance that I won't be responding should anyone react to it either way. ✌🏼)

    I agree with you. There's no reason whatever for the US to make an issue of this. As Ukraine is a non-NATO country, their local conflicts are not our concern.

    This is not correct. NATO is expansionist and Ukraine has long been a target for expansion. Perhaps read this piece by International Relations scholar John Mearsheimer for some context. https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf

  • @cian said:

    @yug said:

    Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, 3rd largest in the world, in exchange for security assurances from the US, the UK and Russia.

    This isn't true. The nuclear weapons were Russian (they had the launch codes - there was nothing that the Ukraine could do with them). And they were a problem for the Ukraine as they were unable to maintain them.

    Not true, those weapons could have been reconfigured to gain full control and retargeted. But there was no such intention. It would have really angered both NATO and Russia. And it was pointless, because they had knowledge and specialists but no weapons program, so future maintenance was impossible

    It was a smart choice if there was any. Yet, the memorandum was signed and the assurances were given

  • edited February 2022

    @LinearLineman said:
    @ervin, I’m not characterizing people as bad. The situation, as Gurdjieff and others have pointed out, is that we’re unconscious… living in a dream/illusion most of us will never wake up from. That unconscious condition plus our primitive survival instincts keep the human race enslaved to the states of fear and greed.

    That one guy can do so much damage (is Jesus included in that group?) is testimony to the lack of ability we have to consciously resist outside influences that are antithetical to our better natures.
    If Jesus existed, I believe that is what he meant by “sin”. Sin = unconsciousness. Then, of course, unconscious, power seeking minds, corrupted that concept and transformed it into a weapon of fear.

    That’s what I have come to think after almost six decades of adulthood.

    If only those with ears would listen.
    If only those with heart would act.
    If only those with spirit would lead.
    What would the world evoke for generations?

    Time to read some P. D. Ouspensky again.

    It’s easy for things in life to go sideways when the Golden Rule is discarded in favor of personal agendas and goals.

  • @wim said:

    @NeuM said:
    The "neighbors" of Russia in the EU should address Russia's actions... or not. It's their decision. The US should not get involved. As it stands today, Joe Biden's terrible decisions have pushed China and Russia together to align against the US. That is quite a feat for a US President in office only one year.

    I would be interested in hearing how you think Biden did that. This is not a leading question; I have no opinion on it. I'm sincerely interested.

    I wouldn't particularly blame Biden for this, as I think the US foreign policy elite is pretty unified on strategy here (excluding the guys who want a war with Russia/China). But essentially by pursuing a strategy of financial warfare against China/Russia (with China being denied access to important technologies/ability to see their 5G phones), and making military threats against both countries, they've given them a lot of common interests.

    It's a dumb strategy, but I'm not seeing a lot of dissent within the ranks. Long term the US does seem to be gearing up for military conflict with China (less so with Russia - that mostly seems to be rather dumb sabre rattling), which I think will be disastrous, but it's not uncommon for declining powers to start fights with rising ones.

  • @yug said:

    @cian said:

    @yug said:

    Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, 3rd largest in the world, in exchange for security assurances from the US, the UK and Russia.

    This isn't true. The nuclear weapons were Russian (they had the launch codes - there was nothing that the Ukraine could do with them). And they were a problem for the Ukraine as they were unable to maintain them.

    Not true, those weapons could have been reconfigured to gain full control and retargeted.

    LOL. They really couldn't have been. The Ukrainian government at the time were desperate to get rid of them as they were old, unmaintained and quite dangerous.

  • @cian said:

    @McD said:
    I think if you had to pick a single word biography for Vladimir Putin, I'd choose "spymaster".

    People really need to stop with this bullshit. He was a bureaucrat in the KGB who essentially did middle management. He wasn't a spy, or some George Smiley character.

    He's a smart strategic guy, but he was formed by the brutal post Soviet world of dueling oligarchs. His experiences in St Petersburg/Moscow city politics during the 1990s are what formed him.

    The single word I'd have to place on Joe Biden might be "alterboy" with a strong sense of moral code and service to a higher purpose.

    His senatorial career was built around protecting/advancing the interests of Delaware which is the US offshore/tax evasion center. For a long time he was called the senator for MBNA.

    “Kleptocrat” works as the single word Putin descriptor for me.

  • @cian said:

    @wim said:

    @NeuM said:
    The "neighbors" of Russia in the EU should address Russia's actions... or not. It's their decision. The US should not get involved. As it stands today, Joe Biden's terrible decisions have pushed China and Russia together to align against the US. That is quite a feat for a US President in office only one year.

    I would be interested in hearing how you think Biden did that. This is not a leading question; I have no opinion on it. I'm sincerely interested.

    I wouldn't particularly blame Biden for this, as I think the US foreign policy elite is pretty unified on strategy here (excluding the guys who want a war with Russia/China). But essentially by pursuing a strategy of financial warfare against China/Russia (with China being denied access to important technologies/ability to see their 5G phones), and making military threats against both countries, they've given them a lot of common interests.

    It's a dumb strategy, but I'm not seeing a lot of dissent within the ranks. Long term the US does seem to be gearing up for military conflict with China (less so with Russia - that mostly seems to be rather dumb sabre rattling), which I think will be disastrous, but it's not uncommon for declining powers to start fights with rising ones.

    Agreed. The Thucydides Trap is in play, I reckon. Russia is a diversion from the main event.

  • In a world of realtime information who controls the narrative.

This discussion has been closed.