WTF Will Smith?

AudioGus

@espiegel123 said:

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:
“Cancel culture” is a phrase whose sole use is to defend privilege. As if there is some group of people who have a right to elevated status regardless of their actions.

It could possibly also be a phrase that is critical of a perceived scotched earth, complete devastation attitude towards destroying an individual (and their family) in retribution. As with anything, I think there is room for grey. Sure some people should burn in hell but I don't think everyone who thought they were an edgy comedian for thirty seconds on twitter should have to lose their livelihood. So it could be that some people drop the term ‘cancel culture’ to refer to their unease with this perceived strategy.

Complaints about “political correctness “ are simply complaints from people defending a status quo of a right to be insensitive to marginalized groups they don’t care about. It is a phrase people bring out to make some group feel bad about wanting to be treated with respect.

Perhaps at times, but it could also be complaints about the oppression of personal liberty too. Not every complaint about “political correctness” has to do with groups. I could easily make a politically incorrect comment relating to sex and drugs that only applies to me and the sweet (bleepity bleep) that I am (bleepin) the (bleep) out of with a donkey strap-on.

The way you say ‘a phrase whose sole use’ and ‘are simply complaints’ feels like you want to remove nuance from language and have simple narratives to things. Language in our individual minds may feel concrete and specific but when spread across multiple cultures and individual perspectives it takes on a more flexible form. Sure we can give buzzwords blunt high level wrappings that we deem to be universal but I think there is value in trying to see a range of what is trying to be expressed with them and not simply locking in, especially with buzzwords.

Those terms were chosen to eliminate nuance. Nothing you mentioned required “cancel culture” or “political correctness “ to discuss.

It did because I was quoting your use and judgement of the words.

You can have nuanced discussions without resorting to language that is chosen because it is pre-loaded with a point of view.

Yah, that is what i was saying in part. I was not talking about using those words with care so much as listening to the use of those words by others with care, as annoying as those words are to hear.

espiegel123

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:
“Cancel culture” is a phrase whose sole use is to defend privilege. As if there is some group of people who have a right to elevated status regardless of their actions.

It could possibly also be a phrase that is critical of a perceived scotched earth, complete devastation attitude towards destroying an individual (and their family) in retribution. As with anything, I think there is room for grey. Sure some people should burn in hell but I don't think everyone who thought they were an edgy comedian for thirty seconds on twitter should have to lose their livelihood. So it could be that some people drop the term ‘cancel culture’ to refer to their unease with this perceived strategy.

Complaints about “political correctness “ are simply complaints from people defending a status quo of a right to be insensitive to marginalized groups they don’t care about. It is a phrase people bring out to make some group feel bad about wanting to be treated with respect.

Perhaps at times, but it could also be complaints about the oppression of personal liberty too. Not every complaint about “political correctness” has to do with groups. I could easily make a politically incorrect comment relating to sex and drugs that only applies to me and the sweet (bleepity bleep) that I am (bleepin) the (bleep) out of with a donkey strap-on.

The way you say ‘a phrase whose sole use’ and ‘are simply complaints’ feels like you want to remove nuance from language and have simple narratives to things. Language in our individual minds may feel concrete and specific but when spread across multiple cultures and individual perspectives it takes on a more flexible form. Sure we can give buzzwords blunt high level wrappings that we deem to be universal but I think there is value in trying to see a range of what is trying to be expressed with them and not simply locking in, especially with buzzwords.

Those terms were chosen to eliminate nuance. Nothing you mentioned required “cancel culture” or “political correctness “ to discuss.

It did because I was quoting your use and judgement of the words.

You can have nuanced discussions without resorting to language that is chosen because it is pre-loaded with a point of view.

Yah, that is what i was saying in part. I was not talking about using those words with care so much as listening to the use of those words by others with care, as annoying as those words are to hear.

My point is that those terms bring intent/meaning that can’t be ignored. They are loaded terms. If one wants an open nuanced discussion one doesn’t use them.

AudioGus

@espiegel123 said:

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:
“Cancel culture” is a phrase whose sole use is to defend privilege. As if there is some group of people who have a right to elevated status regardless of their actions.

It could possibly also be a phrase that is critical of a perceived scotched earth, complete devastation attitude towards destroying an individual (and their family) in retribution. As with anything, I think there is room for grey. Sure some people should burn in hell but I don't think everyone who thought they were an edgy comedian for thirty seconds on twitter should have to lose their livelihood. So it could be that some people drop the term ‘cancel culture’ to refer to their unease with this perceived strategy.

Complaints about “political correctness “ are simply complaints from people defending a status quo of a right to be insensitive to marginalized groups they don’t care about. It is a phrase people bring out to make some group feel bad about wanting to be treated with respect.

Perhaps at times, but it could also be complaints about the oppression of personal liberty too. Not every complaint about “political correctness” has to do with groups. I could easily make a politically incorrect comment relating to sex and drugs that only applies to me and the sweet (bleepity bleep) that I am (bleepin) the (bleep) out of with a donkey strap-on.

The way you say ‘a phrase whose sole use’ and ‘are simply complaints’ feels like you want to remove nuance from language and have simple narratives to things. Language in our individual minds may feel concrete and specific but when spread across multiple cultures and individual perspectives it takes on a more flexible form. Sure we can give buzzwords blunt high level wrappings that we deem to be universal but I think there is value in trying to see a range of what is trying to be expressed with them and not simply locking in, especially with buzzwords.

Those terms were chosen to eliminate nuance. Nothing you mentioned required “cancel culture” or “political correctness “ to discuss.

It did because I was quoting your use and judgement of the words.

You can have nuanced discussions without resorting to language that is chosen because it is pre-loaded with a point of view.

Yah, that is what i was saying in part. I was not talking about using those words with care so much as listening to the use of those words by others with care, as annoying as those words are to hear.

My point is that those terms bring intent/meaning that can’t be ignored. They are loaded terms. If one wants an open nuanced discussion one doesn’t use them.

I completely agree. Best to stick to the building blocks.

el_bo

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:

@LinearLineman said:
This thread has gone on far too long, and I apologize for being a part of that. But, hopefully, one last take as only Bill Maher can elucidate….

Listen to the last roars of the dying white dinosaur.

Opposition to “cancel culture” or “wokeness” is basically the privileged crying about being called out for their use of terms which are acceptable no longer.

“Boo hoo, I can’t wear black face any more”

“Why can’t I say n*****”

Etc etc.

People are actually seeing how silly, political correctness taken to the extreme is damaging freedom of expression.

The “politically correct” seek to ensure the public space is fair, caring, civil and safe, for all those who share it And I don’t see that as damaging.
It doesn’t stop or damage freedom of expression, no one is stopped from speaking or saying anything they want.

However peoples speech does not exist in a vacuum and expression can result in consequences, just like real life.

Even so I’d struggle to think of one so called “cancelled” individual who has truly had their freedom of expression removed as they all seem to blest about it constantly in the media, surely in “cancelling” was a thing, they would just disappear from the media altogether.

@espiegel123 said:
“Cancel culture” is a phrase whose sole use is to defend privilege. As if there is some group of people who have a right to elevated status regardless of their actions.

Complaints about “political correctness “ are simply complaints from people defending a status quo of a right to be insensitive to marginalized groups they don’t care about. It is a phrase people bring out to make some group feel bad about wanting to be treated with respect.

Your prevailing opinion is that white people shouldn’t have an opinion regarding this thread’s topic because of ‘white outrage’ or ‘white privilege’ bias, this was an attempt to cancel this conversation, which for the most part has been respectful. This is the example of PC and cancelling.

@knewspeak : not sure who you are talking to. What you wrote has nothing to do with what I said. Or is a perfect example. I am not quite sure.

I think he was referring to the response you'd also referred to. At least, that's what I assumed when I gave my '+1'

knewspeak

@el_bo said:

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:

@LinearLineman said:
This thread has gone on far too long, and I apologize for being a part of that. But, hopefully, one last take as only Bill Maher can elucidate….

Listen to the last roars of the dying white dinosaur.

Opposition to “cancel culture” or “wokeness” is basically the privileged crying about being called out for their use of terms which are acceptable no longer.

“Boo hoo, I can’t wear black face any more”

“Why can’t I say n*****”

Etc etc.

People are actually seeing how silly, political correctness taken to the extreme is damaging freedom of expression.

The “politically correct” seek to ensure the public space is fair, caring, civil and safe, for all those who share it And I don’t see that as damaging.
It doesn’t stop or damage freedom of expression, no one is stopped from speaking or saying anything they want.

However peoples speech does not exist in a vacuum and expression can result in consequences, just like real life.

Even so I’d struggle to think of one so called “cancelled” individual who has truly had their freedom of expression removed as they all seem to blest about it constantly in the media, surely in “cancelling” was a thing, they would just disappear from the media altogether.

@espiegel123 said:
“Cancel culture” is a phrase whose sole use is to defend privilege. As if there is some group of people who have a right to elevated status regardless of their actions.

Complaints about “political correctness “ are simply complaints from people defending a status quo of a right to be insensitive to marginalized groups they don’t care about. It is a phrase people bring out to make some group feel bad about wanting to be treated with respect.

Your prevailing opinion is that white people shouldn’t have an opinion regarding this thread’s topic because of ‘white outrage’ or ‘white privilege’ bias, this was an attempt to cancel this conversation, which for the most part has been respectful. This is the example of PC and cancelling.

@knewspeak : not sure who you are talking to. What you wrote has nothing to do with what I said. Or is a perfect example. I am not quite sure.

I think he was referring to the response you'd also referred to. At least, that's what I assumed when I gave my '+1'

It was the comments @espiegel123 made and @CRAKROX have made, that I was responding to.

And I don’t understand why terms like Politically Correct or Cancel Culture should cause offence, yes they can be used to apply to a variety of things, but aren’t directly insulting, unless they hit a nerve, in this case, trying to ‘shame’ white people for having an opinion about the thread topic.

In the context of the thread my above comment is mild when compared to some comments and also link’s posted to articles related to this topic.

espiegel123

@knewspeak : I didn’t say “cancel culture” or “politically correct “ caused me offence. I said that they convey a particular point of view…which I described in my post and discussed further with audiogus.

knewspeak

To me the internet has the great potential to discuss with other’s, increasingly from all across the world, our different cultures and beliefs, but mostly to discuss that which unites us, I ultimately believe this ‘social revolution’ will surpass our industrial-technological revolution, which runs ahead of our ‘wisdom’ creating a massive threat to our own existence.

CalCutta

@LinearLineman said:

@CalCutta said:
My goodness have I forgotten how much caveman-stupidity right-wing shit has always been promoted and tolerated on this board!

All the justifications for unnecessary physical violence in this thread is embarrassing.

Lol, you're late to this party, my friend. Still, I think five years would have been enough to make the point, I mean, the guy obviously has some serious emotional/relationship issues… tho I still don’t get his “River unto my people” shit. Who, exactly, are HIS people?

No disrespect, but I've been on this board for many years. I used to post a lot more but stopped because of how one-sided this place gets. My post wasn't about just this thread. It's about how threads like these pop-up often and wind up becoming a predominently right-wing echo chamber.

Also, to those using the term "Politically Correct" and wondering why others are correctly pointing out how that term is a divisive non-starter. You'd benefit from reading this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump

LinearLineman

I just meant this thread @CalCutta. No offense intended.

McD

Is there any possibility we could get Elon Musk to invest $1B in the AudioBus Forum to increase free speech? I'm sure @michael might accept the investment to help defray the cost
of monitoring the site for random "hate speech". Such, as:

I hate Apple.
I hate IOS updates that break an app I purchased in 2014.
I hate devices without headphone jacks and $9 audio dongles
Can't we drill a big hole in the case and stuff the audio dongle inside the case and enclose it with epoxy over a female mini-jack? Can I patent this idea?

You get the idea. Inflammatory rhetoric that only serves to create forum food fights.

oat_phipps

@el_bo said:

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:

@LinearLineman said:
This thread has gone on far too long, and I apologize for being a part of that. But, hopefully, one last take as only Bill Maher can elucidate….

Listen to the last roars of the dying white dinosaur.

Opposition to “cancel culture” or “wokeness” is basically the privileged crying about being called out for their use of terms which are acceptable no longer.

“Boo hoo, I can’t wear black face any more”

“Why can’t I say n*****”

Etc etc.

People are actually seeing how silly, political correctness taken to the extreme is damaging freedom of expression.

The “politically correct” seek to ensure the public space is fair, caring, civil and safe, for all those who share it And I don’t see that as damaging.
It doesn’t stop or damage freedom of expression, no one is stopped from speaking or saying anything they want.

However peoples speech does not exist in a vacuum and expression can result in consequences, just like real life.

Even so I’d struggle to think of one so called “cancelled” individual who has truly had their freedom of expression removed as they all seem to blest about it constantly in the media, surely in “cancelling” was a thing, they would just disappear from the media altogether.

@espiegel123 said:
“Cancel culture” is a phrase whose sole use is to defend privilege. As if there is some group of people who have a right to elevated status regardless of their actions.

Complaints about “political correctness “ are simply complaints from people defending a status quo of a right to be insensitive to marginalized groups they don’t care about. It is a phrase people bring out to make some group feel bad about wanting to be treated with respect.

Your prevailing opinion is that white people shouldn’t have an opinion regarding this thread’s topic because of ‘white outrage’ or ‘white privilege’ bias, this was an attempt to cancel this conversation, which for the most part has been respectful. This is the example of PC and cancelling.

+1

+11000 to @knewspeak

CRACKROX’ rebuttal attempt is always, always the first tack that is taken when somebody pushes back against this nonsense. It is so smug and “ha ha i got you” with no attempt to reply with some depth of critical thinking. I guess it usually works since it sounds authoritative and is probably well-rehearsed. @knewspeak tersely and strongly shut it down. I am happy to see it.

Now let’s see if CRACKROX refers to the emergency section of his Modern Acceptable Social Trends, Buzzwords, And You guidebook on how to get one’s foot out of one’s mouth, or uses his own intellect.

Sincerely,

The Forum’s Impartial Mediator

el_bo

@oat_phipps said:
CRACKROX’ rebuttal attempt is always, always the first tack that is taken when somebody pushes back against this nonsense. It is so smug and “ha ha i got you” with no attempt to reply with some depth of critical thinking.

There's always a broader conversation to be had, in cases such as this. And clearly people here were up for having it. But it seems to me that their blunt, one-dimensional handling of the topic at-hand is nothing but a foil for their own deep-seated discrimination. And there just ain't no reasoning with that.

CRAKROX

Cancel culture is a myth I’ve yet to see one person genuinely “cancelled” and have their free speech curtailed.

As usual the response from the usual parties when their position is challenged is make the same outraged claims that they should be able to speak as they please with no consequences.

As I’ve said repeatedly and I’m sure people are now genuinely ignoring this that anyone and everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject.

However when you choose to make it public either in real life or online, it’s no good complaining if you’re challenged or told that your viewpoint is limited by your lack of understanding or education about various factors which may inform the situation that you’re either wilfully or unintentionally ignorant of.

CRAKROX

Quick question :

Should people be allowed to say anything they want with no consequence whatsoever for doing so ?

CRAKROX

Oh and to get back to main point this article sums the whole thing up.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/white-outrage-about-will-smiths-slap-is-rooted-in-anti-blackness-its-inequality-in-plain-sight

BiancaNeve

@CRAKROX said:
Oh and to get back to main point this article sums the whole thing up.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/white-outrage-about-will-smiths-slap-is-rooted-in-anti-blackness-its-inequality-in-plain-sight

The what aboutism of a Guardian journalist citing incidents from 1973 is hardly conclusive proof of anything.

Are you claiming that if a white actor had hit another white actor it wouldn’t have attracted attention these days? And that no black people would be entitled to an opinion ?

knewspeak

@CRAKROX said:
Oh and to get back to main point this article sums the whole thing up.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/white-outrage-about-will-smiths-slap-is-rooted-in-anti-blackness-its-inequality-in-plain-sight

It start’s ‘We don’t condone violence’ but then excuse’s Smith, offering ‘a black man protecting his black wife’ and then insinuates, by the way you white people are really to blame. What toilet paper.

CRAKROX

@BiancaNeve said:

@CRAKROX said:
Oh and to get back to main point this article sums the whole thing up.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/white-outrage-about-will-smiths-slap-is-rooted-in-anti-blackness-its-inequality-in-plain-sight

The what aboutism of a Guardian journalist citing incidents from 1973 is hardly conclusive proof of anything.

Are you claiming that if a white actor had hit another white actor it wouldn’t have attracted attention these days? And that no black people would be entitled to an opinion ?

@BiancaNeve said:
And that no black people would be entitled to an opinion ?

You’re not reading my posts.

CRAKROX

As I’ve said repeatedly and I’m sure people are now genuinely ignoring this that anyone and everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject.

However when you choose to make it public either in real life or online, it’s no good complaining if you’re challenged or told that your viewpoint is limited by your lack of understanding or education about various factors which may inform the situation that you’re either wilfully or unintentionally ignorant of.

el_bo

@CRAKROX said:
As I’ve said repeatedly and I’m sure people are now genuinely ignoring this that anyone and everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject.

However when you choose to make it public either in real life or online, it’s no good complaining if you’re challenged or told that your viewpoint is limited by your lack of understanding or education about various factors which may inform the situation that you’re either wilfully or unintentionally ignorant of.

It's the same no matter how many times you say it. The problem is you have no clue what the level of understanding, experience or education, concerning matters of discrimination, contributors actually have; nor does it seem you're interested. As far as I can see, there's a very short checklist for your assumptions/presumptions, and subsequent accusations of (b)latent racism:

The person stating their opinion:

• Is white
• Dares to share ANY opinion on what a black person does.

As I said, this could very well check out as nothing but the manifestations of your own prejudice(s)

CRAKROX

No you’re deliberately misrepresenting my stance to reinforce your viewpoint PC or cancel culture is choking discussion when it obviously is not.

jolico

@CRAKROX said:
Quick question :

Should people be allowed to say anything they want with no consequence whatsoever for doing so ?

Yes. It would be nice to say a joke without getting punched in the face.

el_bo

@CRAKROX said:
No you’re deliberately misrepresenting my stance to reinforce your viewpoint PC or cancel culture is choking discussion when it obviously is not.

The only thing I'm doing deliberately is sharing what I think you've been doing from the start. I don't think either PC or cancel culture is choking the discussion. I think you are.

CRAKROX

@el_bo said:

@CRAKROX said:
No you’re deliberately misrepresenting my stance to reinforce your viewpoint PC or cancel culture is choking discussion when it obviously is not.

The only thing I'm doing deliberately is sharing what I think you've been doing from the start. I don't think either PC or cancel culture is choking the discussion. I think you are.

You’re talking nonsense I’m choking nothing if people feel uncomfortable that their blind spots are being called out that’s on them not me.

It seems to me that your version of free speech is only for those with your viewpoint and if anyone challenges that viewpoint or object you claim they are being cancelled.

CRAKROX

As I’ve said elsewhere it’s interesting at all the shock and horror expressed at a minor dust up when other (white) members of the academy have committed much more serious offences without the same media outcry.

Still it’s nothing to do with race though is it…

jolico

@CRAKROX said:
As I’ve said elsewhere it’s interesting at all the shock and horror expressed at a minor dust up when other (white) members of the academy have committed much more serious offences without the same media outcry.

Still it’s nothing to do with race though is it…

This only became about race because you wanted it to be about race.

knewspeak

@CRAKROX said:
As I’ve said elsewhere it’s interesting at all the shock and horror expressed at a minor dust up when other (white) members of the academy have committed much more serious offences without the same media outcry.

Still it’s nothing to do with race though is it…

Did they commit these offences at the Oscar’s and could the members here have discussed their offences at the time they committed them?

CRAKROX

@knewspeak said:

@CRAKROX said:
As I’ve said elsewhere it’s interesting at all the shock and horror expressed at a minor dust up when other (white) members of the academy have committed much more serious offences without the same media outcry.

Still it’s nothing to do with race though is it…

Did they commit these offences at the Oscar’s and could the members here have discussed their offences at the time they committed them?

They are offences committed by academy members
Some during the time this forum has existed however my argument isn’t just about this forum it’s about the media social and otherwise in general.

As I’ve said the article posted explains my viewpoint clearly.

Jomodu

What a load of old tripe.
A person slaps another who took a poke at his wife.
In my pub he would have been punched.
I mean, a guy slapping another is such a ‘girlie’ thing to do.
In olden days, everyone would have said ‘ good on you…he asked for it’ …. and got on with everyday life.
But is this thread an insight into what fills everyone’s mind about what really matters these days?

el_bo

@CRAKROX said:

@el_bo said:

@CRAKROX said:
No you’re deliberately misrepresenting my stance to reinforce your viewpoint PC or cancel culture is choking discussion when it obviously is not.

The only thing I'm doing deliberately is sharing what I think you've been doing from the start. I don't think either PC or cancel culture is choking the discussion. I think you are.

You’re talking nonsense I’m choking nothing if people feel uncomfortable that their blind spots are being called out that’s on them not me.

It seems to me that your version of free speech is only for those with your viewpoint and if anyone challenges that viewpoint or object you claim they are being cancelled.

Just saying it as I see it. And I'm not denying you your right to speech. In fact, I've said on a few occasions, there's a discussion to be had about this. I just don't think you've either the sense or the sensibility to be having it.
You've decided that we all have certain blind-spots (Which I've already suggested seems fuelled by nothing but your own prejudice) and that you're the one to call us out. But perhaps we are just a forum of nails at which you can swing Maslow's Hammer.

Bang! bang! CRAKROX' silver hammer
Came down upon our heads
Do do do doo doo
Bang! bang! CRAKROX' silver hammer
Made sure that we were dead