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WTF Will Smith?
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It is showbiz.
I'm not sure about this. I'm actually a fairly firm believer in separating art from due process. Justice was served. It has zero to do with past attributions of quality to the movies he produced.
If they wanted to keep in the spirit of Hollywood it really should have been a pie fight. That would have been a fine mess.
Maybe the footage will be in the running for next year’s Oscars…?
Violence is the last resort for the wise man and the first for the ignorant. Should he be offended, yes, but first, he should have spoken to Chris about the situation and asked for an apology, and then if Chris continues bashing his wife he could go for other measures. We are just evolved animals in so few ways apparently
Hey Mike ... I apologize for saying it so snarkily.
But, I'm still sincerely baffled at why this is such a big deal. It must be because so many apparently see it that way, but I just don't get it. Some rich guy slapped some other rich guy and it becomes a source of dismay and needs prolonged soul searching discussion?
I'm definitely not dismissive of this. I'm just trying to figure out my own disconnect here. But for this thread, this thing would have taken up approximately 60 seconds of my thoughts. "Hey, a guy slapped another guy. They worked it out." I really can't understand why it is so worrying and says terrible things about culture. Way worse stuff happens all the time. Is there something unique about this that I'm missing?
Perhaps it's because I've never seen "celebrities" as anything more than regular people. I don't see anything about someone who is a talented actor that elevates them in my eyes as people any more than my neighbor who's a really good and fair plumber, or my other 87 year old neighbor who just braved the perilous shuffle down to my house to ask if I can use some extra milk that she received from the local food bank distribution.
I totally understand idolizing actors and other artists because they're good looking, talented, rich, etc. But it never occurred to me that people see them as role models. Is this true? Is that what I'm missing here? Or is there more to it than this.
Sorry for the long post. I mean it by way of apology, but also hoping to understand where people are coming from here, because really, I just don't get it.
I can't believe anyone actually cares about this. But I did see the video, Chris Rock was way out of line making jokes about somebody's illness. You get what you give. My understanding is that he has been insulting Ms. Pinkett Smith for quite some time. Will Smith probably shouldn't have smacked him, but I don't actually care that he did.
Now I'd like to see Dave Chappell get angry and insist that black comedians stop punching down on black women. And then I want Jada to slap Jane Campion just for existing. Also, we need a squad of Will Smiths to deal with Woody Allen and Louis C.K.
Millionaires slapping millionaires. Awww poor babies, our hearts are breaking.
Now about that Alec Baldwin guy...
I’m just sad to see it here on this forum, it’s already all over Facebook Twitter and every place else
Lots of us don't do much, or any, other social media. So this is the only outlet. But yeh, the balance between music discussion and other stuff has swung pretty far the other direction for a bit. It'll pass.
To be honest I thought was fake at first. I'm yet to see anything to convince me otherwise apart from the seemingly genuine reactions of those involved. But they are PROFESSIONAL ACTORS. Could this be a stunt? Seriously, would it be of benefit it as a publicity stunt?
I seriously doubt it was staged.
Was it a boost in publicity? Absolutely. How many people would even be thinking about the Oscars at this stage if that had not happened. Definitely not me. Will it improve viewership next year? Not a chance.
The Remix Bros did it again
In a way, all the commenting here is just enabling them by keeping an excessive amount of focus on the situation.
If I want to smack someone, I go to my dojo, as we all signed a waiver when we started training there - I don’t need to watch the Oscars to watch someone else do it.
It’s 100% stupid, overly dramatized, and completely unimportant. But at the end of the day can’t we just enjoy for a second, some overpaid, self important actors absolutely embarrassing themselves?
At first blush on the situation, I feel like the events were out of order. Will was obviously capable of using his voice to tell Chris to watch his mouth and should have lead with that and demanded an apology. If he didn't get satisfaction that way, then maybe proving his point with the front of his hand was what his next recourse could have been.
The thing I don't understand is that people think it should have been handled in private, but the damage had been done in public. If my wife was insulted on national television with a quick bad taste joke, especially about an illness that she had been dealing with for years...that culmination of time and personal investment into a disorder that has probably had an affect on the whole family for a long time...I can totally understand Will doing what he did. I just think he did things out of order.
But I agree with @wim it shouldn't be that big of a deal for the rest of us. I've seen some pretty crazy stuff happen in rooms full of people so not shocked something like this went down, and its really not that big of a deal. Its more that society just needs to fill their time with judgement of others to make themselves feel better about their own choices or what they believe the choice they might make. Its what makes much of the world go around...other people's problems.
As for role models and celebs, everything is a life lesson. Throughout my kids lives, I've gotten to say you see what happened to that child over there for the mistake they made? Now you know what could happen, so you might want to think about that if you are in the situation. Also, if another kid is being mean to them or does something chaotic for some reason, I ask do you now what their home life is like? Do they have both parents? Any other trauma that could make them act out?. Life is all about making mistakes, correcting, and moving forward. Learning through others saves us a lot of grief. Always watch other people and learn from them, but also try to understand why it happened in the first place, which generally isn't from the point of the event, but their life and choices leading up to them. Everyone makes mistakes, even celebrities...that's what I teach my kids, not that everybody has to be perfect.
I think Chris Rock should apologize publicly for crossing a line that maybe he didn't know was there. People (and yes, comedians are people) have to take responsibility for their words and actions. If he just falls back on "it was a joke and you had no reason to slap me for it", then by that logic anyone should just be able to walk up to any person, at any time, and anywhere, and just say whatever they want in their face in front of the world with zero recourse...
...good luck with that. You will get your face slapped...repeatedly.
"Be careful of the words you say,
Keep them short and sweet.
You never know, from day to day,
Which ones you'll have to eat."
Maybe, for the Oscars, instead of having a 3 hour show peppered with comedians insulting people, they should just...not do that? I find humor by insult as the worst humor ever. I don't have anything to do with it. Degrading others in public and finding it funny is beyond my limited mind, I guess. Anything at the expense of others is, in my mind, in bad taste. You will reap what you sow, and it might come at the cost of your face.
I generally enjoy the side discussions here as a lurker because they are, imo, a discussion. I've already learned a lot reading through this thread. Not so on social platforms, its just hateful polarizing insults. I appreciate the thoughtful candor on this forum because I enjoy these people and their thoughts
You gotta admit though, that being a comedian at all these days is becoming a real minefield. There isn't much left that anyone can joke about without offending someone.
I'm old enough to miss the days when people could joke about all kinds of stuff and the targets would usually laugh right along with it, or at least not be mortally offended. Maybe it was indeed toxic and I'm all broken because of it, but it sure was a lot more fun for everyone IMO.
The other problem is the the angle/framing of the slap shot — it Is practically perfect. Permanently meme-able until the end of time.
@wim, no apology necessary, mate. And you’re right, I think, about ABF being the only social media for some of us. It is for me. In fact, by choice, I speak to very few people at all these days. So much of life for me is like chapters in a book. Friends and socializing… did it to the max, not much need anymore.
But I do very much appreciate the people here and their take on things, so if I’m thinking about something interesting I often like to hear what ABF folks think about it.
With a nod to those who think a soupçon of violence is necessary in the life of your average male…
something I don’t understand but cannot disprove conclusively… I still opt for non violence. And Smith’s primitive behavior seemed a good opportunity to hear what people think, especially with the somewhat tangential thread on Ukraine.
I must confess I was a bit of a verbal bully in high school. It seemed like fun at the time, but was pretty corrosive. A little weed quickly cured me of that, but inner anger was not so easily dispelled. Unless you’re psychopathic i don’t think there can be violence without anger and anger’s root cause… fear.
So I see a direct line of behavior between Will Smith and Vladimir Putin. It’s just a matter of scale and degree, IMO. In fact, apologists for Putin can point to his problematic childhood just as they do to poor ole Will’s. I agree that our movie faves are, for the most part, simply ordinary people with extraordinary talents and often disciplined work ethic. But their behavior, by their career choice, is magnified just like their images used to be projected several times their size on silver screens. Now I watch them on a tablet and I’m still surprised how formidable and charismatic great performances can be.
One of today’s key issues is about there being two standards of law and that the rich and powerful are usually not held accountable for their actions. That’s what I see when I watch Smith disrupt an event basically because he laughed at his wife’s expense and had to deflect the shitstorm with violence. He had time to think about his actions and followed it up with more disruptive invective.
He obviously thought his ego was more important and confident he would suffer no consequences,
In fact, he was proven right as twenty minutes later he received a standing ovation and had all the time in the world to deliver his tear soaked bs. So, it wasn’t just Smith, but all those complicit sycophantic club members who tacitly approved the chaotic disruption of their most ballyhooed event in favor of ramshackle, tasteless, harmful and illegal spectacle (and despite those who think a little bitch slapping is no big deal… it is against the law in the US… and isn’t it the breakdown of those very laws and institutions that is sending shivers through the middle class?).
Hence, just my opinion, but I think it has some greater importance than the petty squabbles between rich spouses and peers. When we see violence in our streets, on our screens and in our politics it is an accumulation of permissions to be antisocial. Why? cause there are no consequences to those who can game the system or intimidate the weak with money, power, threats of and actual violence, and connections.
I certainly don’t think Smith should be stripped of his Oscar because he would then be singled out from a loathsome bunch of narcissists… and the award is not for his behavior but for his high level of work. But he sure ain’t no Bagger Vance. He’s basically someone who has not developed much emotionally beyond adolescence… as evidenced by the teenaged platitudes he hypocritically spouted after committing assault.
🤔
@LinearLineman - great post as always. 👍🏼
I don't see it your way as per Smith not being arrested because he's a celebrity. I've seen plenty of altercations of this scale in public places, and have never seen an arrest where the two parties have been able to work it out. In virtually all cases where there the altercation has ended and there's no physical injury requiring medical attention or property damage, the officers are more than happy to just restore the peace and tell one or both parties to leave.
An altercation such as this isn't automatically a cause for arrest. I do not believe Smith's celebrity status had anything to do with it. The standing ovation thing ... eh ... that is poor taste, and does reflect on the audience in a big way if that's what they were applauding about. (Didn't watch it, so I can't say)
@wim, I always go back to what if you or I were invited guests and did what Smith did. Would we be arrested?
Ah, but by that token, we are currently old enough to live through the days where people say the wrong thing to the wrong person and get clocked and its on TikTok and Instagram immediately and millions of people like and laugh at them while scrolling through their timeline and think nothing of it, yet...it gets done on the Oscars and people are polarized meme'ing it, condemning it, approving of it, etc...
Doesn't feel too different than those same days we remember (I think you and I are about the same age...I'm 52)... Still humor to be had!
That's what I'm saying. I don't think we would have been arrested on the spot unless the "victim" or proprietor insisted, and maybe even not then. If the situation was diffused already and it didn't appear that any further violence would ensue, there's very little chance of that. If later the victim asked for charges to be brought, and/or if the prosecutor decided there was a case worth pursuing, then an indictment would come down. Even then though, an arrest isn't a done deal. An appearance before a judge for sure, but not necessarily an arrest.
Honestly. I don't see anything in the slightest different about the handling in this case based on who Will Smith is, other than it played out on TV.
That's not really what I was talking about, but yeh.
I wasn't talking about cases involving violence. I just remember when there was more tolerance for joking at other people's expense. It's pretty tough to joke about anything these days, as I've learned even on this forum. I rarely attempt it these days and always regret it when I do.
I do agree with this. I think its hard to be a comedian and not piss off the "wrong group". With the advent of social networking, everyone has a voice that maybe used to not, so they are being heard, but also...mentallity has changed and cancelling is happening by people all over the place. Like people I've known my whole life who I would never think would get into an uproar about things are just off the charts on social media. I think its fundamentally altered the realities of a lot of my friends that I no longer can believe I ever knew them. Its like a microcosm of media manipulation of what's happening over in Russia, but it happens daily in the lives of everybody I know, making them soooo angry all the time. Pretty sad...and, as you point out... without humor.
Like I've seen plenty of random punches, slaps, etc in bars and different places, and the reactions there at the scene are almost never "that guy should get fired from his job for doing that", they are usually "that guy had it coming" and they tell that story later and everybody laughs about it. But in today's social media manipulated universe, the outrage it x1000.
I completely agree with you...humor is very hard today. HUMOR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!
Dad Jokes are still tolerated, thankfully. But those aren't in any way to be confused with humor.
The day that dad jokes are no longer tolerated is the day that the terrorists have won.
Jim Carrey puts everything in perspective.