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Zenbeats Version 3

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Comments

  • This may have been covered previously, but I would like to import a large number of audio and midi loops into the ZB loop browser. Can this be done in bulk or does each file have to be imported individually?

  • @DMfan said:
    So you want record a sampler into another sampler? Wouldn’t it be easier to just record directly into ZR1? Or if you have a sample in Koala save it as a wav. file and import it into ZR1 as a user sample?

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    I would like to use Koala on the audio track. And write directly into it. The same separation of samples and the use of a sequencer inside Koala is very convenient.

  • @solncekreeze said:

    @DMfan said:
    So you want record a sampler into another sampler? Wouldn’t it be easier to just record directly into ZR1? Or if you have a sample in Koala save it as a wav. file and import it into ZR1 as a user sample?

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    I would like to use Koala on the audio track. And write directly into it. The same separation of samples and the use of a sequencer inside Koala is very convenient.

    I understand. As much as I like Koala though, my guess is that functions like these are not close on the road map. There are most likely more important and more asked for functions to incorporate to make Zenbeats an even broader tool.

    But, hey, who knows?😊

    /DMfan🇸🇪

  • @DMfan said:

    @solncekreeze said:

    @DMfan said:
    So you want record a sampler into another sampler? Wouldn’t it be easier to just record directly into ZR1? Or if you have a sample in Koala save it as a wav. file and import it into ZR1 as a user sample?

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    I would like to use Koala on the audio track. And write directly into it. The same separation of samples and the use of a sequencer inside Koala is very convenient.

    I understand. As much as I like Koala though, my guess is that functions like these are not close on the road map. There are most likely more important and more asked for functions to incorporate to make Zenbeats an even broader tool.

    But, hey, who knows?😊

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    I don't know😁But I like Zenbeats. But it's unfinished. Plug-in windows, routing and other things do not work as we would like. We'll see. I hope the guys from Roland will finish Zen.

  • @Schmotown said:
    This may have been covered previously, but I would like to import a large number of audio and midi loops into the ZB loop browser. Can this be done in bulk or does each file have to be imported individually?

    To do a bulk import, copy the files to the Zenbeats User/Audio Samples folder using the files that. They should then show up in the Loop Browser

  • Good deal on the unlocks for the holiday. Just wish the price scaled for those that already own All Platform Unlock V3 at full price. Keeps me outta the Max game.

  • @MatthewAtZenbeats

    It seems that Zenbeats doesn't support MIDI-controllable AU audio effects, e. g. Vocoders. For example, if I insert DerVoco MFX as an effect in an audio track, the plug-in should be selectable as a MIDI track destination. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Or have I overlooked something?

    Any chance that this will be implemented at some point?

  • @CapnWillie said:
    Just ordered a verselab while they’re still 40% off. Reviews and YouTube videos told a much too compelling story to stay on the sideline at $499. Recent firmware update looks like Roland is responding to users and supporting it well. Looking forward to seeing what’s what with it.

    @CapnWillie NIICEEE! PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE!!!

    @MatthewAtZenbeats I'm getting a loud feedback issue with Atom Piano Roll 2 AU Midi Fx when I have it launched with Zenbeats transport is not playing. Im also unable to resize the window of it. Anyone in the know, please let me know if you've got Atom working with Zenbeats, thanks!

  • edited December 2022

    @ipadbeatmaking said:
    @MatthewAtZenbeats I'm getting a loud feedback issue with Atom Piano Roll 2 AU Midi Fx when I have it launched with Zenbeats transport is not playing. Im also unable to resize the window of it. Anyone in the know, please let me know if you've got Atom working with Zenbeats, thanks!

    Hey man! Great job with your channel!🙌

    I don’t use Atom myself and I will let the dev team know about the issue, but I know the dev wants issues formally reported through the regular support channels (even though Matthew checks in here quite regularly which is great). There are too many external channels to keep track of and an issue can therefore be easily missed, reporting it directly makes sure it is logged and looked at by the team.

    All the best!

    😊

    /DMfan🇸🇪

  • @CapnWillie :Yeah I might have to jump on that too

  • @CapnWillie said:
    iPad bus powers Verselab directly. Full mobility. CLUTCH!!! 🔥

    Enjoy! Keep us posted!

    /DMfan🇸🇪

  • @DMfan said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:
    @MatthewAtZenbeats I'm getting a loud feedback issue with Atom Piano Roll 2 AU Midi Fx when I have it launched with Zenbeats transport is not playing. Im also unable to resize the window of it. Anyone in the know, please let me know if you've got Atom working with Zenbeats, thanks!

    Hey man! Great job with your channel!🙌

    Heyyyy!! Thank you!! I really appreciate it!

    I don’t use Atom myself and I will let the dev team know about the issue, but I know the dev wants issues formally reported through the regular support channels (even though Matthew checks in here quite regularly which is great). There are too many external channels to keep track of and an issue can therefore be easily missed, reporting it directly makes sure it is logged and looked at by the team.

    You’re absolutely right. I was hoping I was doing something wrong, and that someone who uses it could confirm it works/doesn’t work before I send the formal ticket. Especially as Atom 2 seems to work in older versions of ZenBeats on my other devices.

    All the best!

    😊

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    You as well and happy holidays!

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @CapnWillie NIICEEE! PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE!!!

    >

    @Telstar5 said:
    @CapnWillie :Yeah I might have to jump on that too

    Just arrived 4 days early from Amazon 🙌🏽 #LFG. So far very impressed. Build quality, sound, ease of use, pads all stellar. I new it was portable but it’s even more compact than I thought. About the area size of a 12.9 iPad, thickness comparable to Maschine MK3 but somehow feels lighter than my M1 MacBook Pro 14”. It’ll easily fit in my sling pack and is battery power-able.

    I’ll keep you guys posted and report back once I’ve logged a few sessions.

    Bro, you are all in on Zen!! This is crazy. We need a full report!!

    @CapnWillie said:
    iPad bus powers Verselab directly. Full mobility. CLUTCH!!! 🔥

    I was gonna ask about this! Glad it works! Power cables are an absolute deal breaker for me. Only device that gets a pass from me is symphony desktop.

  • edited December 2022

    Zenbeats on Roland Articles:

    https://articles.roland.com/zenbeats-begin-with-the-basics/

    I remain confident that Zenbeats is one of the most underrated iOS music apps out there, and it is rapidly getting even better with updates.

    What you get nowadays is basically the foundation of an MC, Fantom or any other Zencore Roland product, coupled with a TR drum machine and sampler, audio tracks, FX and through AUv3 access to the world of external iOS synths and FX.

    Adding that stuff is exchangeable if you get the PC or Mac version, this a killer app.

    /DMfan🇸🇪

  • On sale at Guitar Center, brand new cheaper than their used offerings.

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @Sawiton said:
    On sale at Guitar Center, brand new cheaper than their used offerings.

    I know right? That’s why I lept. I was this 👌🏽close to buying a used one in my area on OfferUp for $450. Got it for less than that (I had credits), reward points, bunch of free samples, etc buying it new on sale at Amazon.

    I chose Amazon over GC, Sweetwater or Sam Ash begrudgingly just in case I didn’t like it I didn’t want to get hit with restocking fee. Amazon doesn’t ask questions. I can return for full refund all the way until February. So nothing to lose.

    No regrets and not a chance this baby is going anywhere!lol

    What is so special about it in regards to BeatMaking compared to maschine/mpc etc? Is browsing auv3 presets better/easier on it?

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @DMfan said:
    Zenbeats on Roland Articles:

    https://articles.roland.com/zenbeats-begin-with-the-basics/

    I remain confident that Zenbeats is one of the most underrated music apps out there, and it is rapidly getting even better with updates.

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    Definitely. I’ll add that so far, this Verselab is also the most underrated hardware I’ve ever owned. Roland is on 🔥.

    Like Zenbeats, it’s just fun to use which is the #1 reason I love it so far. Haven’t downloaded the manual yet and have already finished a commercial spot for a client. Dog simple. Sounds amazing. Pads are stiff but premium and customizable in settings. I was worried about it only having 8 tracks. Hogwash. It works in layers/takes like photoshop. Also like clips in Maschine but much better. You can add as much as you’ll ever need directly in the hardware without ever even integrating Zenbeats. All kind of onboard effects.

    It’s everything I love about Maschine in an exponentially smaller package than Native Instruments offers as far as a stand-alone with much better mic preamps. Two firmware updates in the last few months.

    This thing is magical.

    Is there anything specific you guys want me to explore and test? @ipadbeatmaking @Telstar5 @DMfan

    I’m seriously about to come back to YouTube just for this.

    Bus powered by iPad and its big beautiful screen is just…man. I was hoping Native Instruments would do this considering they had a huge head start. Nope. Abandoned iMaschine and have been majorly slacking on Maschine Plus development.

    The worse part about this experience so far is fighting back the tears of what could have been if I had this in my 20s.💀

    *I do wish the 3.5 headphone amp was better however my ears probably disagree with my brain on that.lol

    “Fighting back the tears “ ROTFL”!!!!!!!!

  • @CapnWillie : Not enough headphone level?

  • @ipadbeatmaking : Is Zenbeats one Auv3 per track as in AEM?

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @DMfan said:
    Zenbeats on Roland Articles:

    https://articles.roland.com/zenbeats-begin-with-the-basics/

    I remain confident that Zenbeats is one of the most underrated music apps out there, and it is rapidly getting even better with updates.

    /DMfan🇸🇪

    Definitely. I’ll add that so far, this Verselab is also the most underrated hardware I’ve ever owned. Roland is on 🔥.

    Like Zenbeats, it’s just fun to use which is the #1 reason I love it so far. Haven’t downloaded the manual yet and have already finished a commercial spot for a client. Dog simple. Sounds amazing. Pads are stiff but premium and customizable in settings. I was worried about it only having 8 tracks. Hogwash. It works in layers/takes like photoshop. Also like clips in Maschine but much better. You can add as much as you’ll ever need directly in the hardware without ever even integrating Zenbeats. All kind of onboard effects.

    It’s everything I love about Maschine in an exponentially smaller package than Native Instruments offers as far as a stand-alone with much better mic preamps. Two firmware updates in the last few months.

    This thing is magical.

    Is there anything specific you guys want me to explore and test? @ipadbeatmaking @Telstar5 @DMfan

    I’m seriously about to come back to YouTube just for this.

    Bus powered by iPad and its big beautiful screen is just…man. I was hoping Native Instruments would do this considering they had a huge head start. Nope. Abandoned iMaschine and have been majorly slacking on Maschine Plus development.

    The worse part about this experience so far is fighting back the tears of what could have been if I had this in my 20s.💀

    *I do wish the 3.5 headphone amp was better however my ears probably disagree with my brain on that.lol

    You’ve got me tempted. Meanwhile, I have a Maschine MK3 and Jam sitting over to my right that I have barely touched or had time to learn so maybe it’s not a good idea… :lol:

    Anyway, I still might as those are just not so portable. Can you clarify for me the Zenbeats integration? The loopop vids I watched seemed to just indicate it basically gives you a screen for parameters but the MV-1 is still self-contained. You cannot integrate Auv3’s or anything via the Zenbeats link? Thanks!

  • @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @CapnWillie said:
    Just ordered a verselab while they’re still 40% off. Reviews and YouTube videos told a much too compelling story to stay on the sideline at $499. Recent firmware update looks like Roland is responding to users and supporting it well. Looking forward to seeing what’s what with it.

    @CapnWillie NIICEEE! PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE!!!

    @MatthewAtZenbeats I'm getting a loud feedback issue with Atom Piano Roll 2 AU Midi Fx when I have it launched with Zenbeats transport is not playing. Im also unable to resize the window of it. Anyone in the know, please let me know if you've got Atom working with Zenbeats, thanks!

    Thanks for the report. I'll reach out to the developer to see if we can figure it out.

  • @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

  • @Telstar5 said:
    @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

    @Telstar5 said:
    @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

    The MV-1/Zenbeats integration is limited to being an extension to the MV-1 as an editor mode. With that said, for those who want to take a production from an MV-1 and build on it in Zenbeats, I recommend changing the driver mode to Vendor and using our Add Track shortcut to quickly capture stems from the MV1. Note this only works on Mac and Windows currently as iOS and Android only support Generic Mode drivers.

  • @MatthewAtZenbeats said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @CapnWillie said:
    Just ordered a verselab while they’re still 40% off. Reviews and YouTube videos told a much too compelling story to stay on the sideline at $499. Recent firmware update looks like Roland is responding to users and supporting it well. Looking forward to seeing what’s what with it.

    @CapnWillie NIICEEE! PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE!!!

    @MatthewAtZenbeats I'm getting a loud feedback issue with Atom Piano Roll 2 AU Midi Fx when I have it launched with Zenbeats transport is not playing. Im also unable to resize the window of it. Anyone in the know, please let me know if you've got Atom working with Zenbeats, thanks!

    Thanks for the report. I'll reach out to the developer to see if we can figure it out.

    Thanks! I appreciate it!

    @MatthewAtZenbeats said:

    @Telstar5 said:
    @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

    @Telstar5 said:
    @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

    The MV-1/Zenbeats integration is limited to being an extension to the MV-1 as an editor mode. With that said, for those who want to take a production from an MV-1 and build on it in Zenbeats, I recommend changing the driver mode to Vendor and using our Add Track shortcut to quickly capture stems from the MV1. Note this only works on Mac and Windows currently as iOS and Android only support Generic Mode drivers.

    You really helped my understanding of the Verselab with this post, thank you

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @DMfan said:.

    It’s everything I love about Maschine in an exponentially smaller package than Native Instruments offers as far as a stand-alone with much better mic preamps. Two firmware updates in the last few months.

    This thing is magical.

    Is there anything specific you guys want me to explore and test? @ipadbeatmaking @Telstar5 @DMfan

    Audio time limit per project?. Last time I checked it was way too little for audio-based tracks, but maybe it’s been changed in hardware updates. MV1 looked very interesting but the audio limit is/was crippling. I also can’t understand why it would be limited even if hooking it up to an iPad.
    I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Cheers!,

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @tahiche said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    @DMfan said:.

    It’s everything I love about Maschine in an exponentially smaller package than Native Instruments offers as far as a stand-alone with much better mic preamps. Two firmware updates in the last few months.

    This thing is magical.

    Is there anything specific you guys want me to explore and test? @ipadbeatmaking @Telstar5 @DMfan

    Audio time limit per project?. Last time I checked it was way too little for audio-based tracks, but maybe it’s been changed in hardware updates. MV1 looked very interesting but the audio limit is/was crippling. I also can’t understand why it would be limited even if hooking it up to an iPad.
    I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Cheers!,

    Whoooaaaaa now that’ll be the deal breaker. I haven’t tested time limit.

    Do tell! 😩🤦🏽‍♂️

    I complained about this a while back. This is what I found then…

    MV1 has a 12 minute mono (6 min stereo) audio limit.

    I just don’t get it. Say you want to record a track with bass, guitar and vocals… best case scenario you can’t do doubling or have too many harmonies…
    I hope it’s changed since. What seemed very awkward is that when hooked to an iPad with Zenbeats you still had the same limitations.

  • @CapnWillie said:

    @tahiche said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    @tahiche said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    @DMfan said:.

    It’s everything I love about Maschine in an exponentially smaller package than Native Instruments offers as far as a stand-alone with much better mic preamps. Two firmware updates in the last few months.

    This thing is magical.

    Is there anything specific you guys want me to explore and test? @ipadbeatmaking @Telstar5 @DMfan

    Audio time limit per project?. Last time I checked it was way too little for audio-based tracks, but maybe it’s been changed in hardware updates. MV1 looked very interesting but the audio limit is/was crippling. I also can’t understand why it would be limited even if hooking it up to an iPad.
    I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Cheers!,

    Whoooaaaaa now that’ll be the deal breaker. I haven’t tested time limit.

    Do tell! 😩🤦🏽‍♂️

    I complained about this a while back. This is what I found then…

    MV1 has a 12 minute mono (6 min stereo) audio limit.

    I just don’t get it. Say you want to record a track with bass, guitar and vocals… best case scenario you can’t do doubling or have too many harmonies…
    I hope it’s changed since. What seemed very awkward is that when hooked to an iPad with Zenbeats you still had the same limitations.

    Oh ok. Even if that’s still the case after the latest updates (it’s on the test list now, let you know for sure soon)…That’s pretty long bro.lol.

    It’s pretty long if you’re using it to record a lead vocal track, which seems to be the market it’s aimed at. In your case it’s probably more than enough.
    But with a nice unit like this I don’t see the sense in limiting it to “singers over a beat”. This could be a great tool for singer-songwriters, guitar players or whatever. Same workflow and benefits. But the audio time limitation makes MV1 hardly an option for them. 12 minutes mono is probably enough… yes, maybe. But I’m not risking spending 500€ or whatever to find out.

  • edited December 2022

    @CapnWillie said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @MatthewAtZenbeats said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @CapnWillie said:
    Just ordered a verselab while they’re still 40% off. Reviews and YouTube videos told a much too compelling story to stay on the sideline at $499. Recent firmware update looks like Roland is responding to users and supporting it well. Looking forward to seeing what’s what with it.

    @CapnWillie NIICEEE! PLEASE SHARE YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE!!!

    @MatthewAtZenbeats I'm getting a loud feedback issue with Atom Piano Roll 2 AU Midi Fx when I have it launched with Zenbeats transport is not playing. Im also unable to resize the window of it. Anyone in the know, please let me know if you've got Atom working with Zenbeats, thanks!

    Thanks for the report. I'll reach out to the developer to see if we can figure it out.

    Thanks! I appreciate it!

    @MatthewAtZenbeats said:

    @Telstar5 said:
    @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

    @Telstar5 said:
    @oddSTAR : I’m sure he’ll answer. I haven’t got an MV1 but I’ve investigated it . I’m almost positive MV1 doesn’t integrate too deeply w Zenbeats YET. It DOES accommodate the 1.81 update . It also displays start/stop sample time in terms of a wave . Basically the answer to your question in “No”. But we’re all staying tuned.

    The MV-1/Zenbeats integration is limited to being an extension to the MV-1 as an editor mode. With that said, for those who want to take a production from an MV-1 and build on it in Zenbeats, I recommend changing the driver mode to Vendor and using our Add Track shortcut to quickly capture stems from the MV1. Note this only works on Mac and Windows currently as iOS and Android only support Generic Mode drivers.

    You really helped my understanding of the Verselab with this post, thank you

    Same. I was just about to dive into this specific use case for @oddSTAR

    To be honest, that is very disappointing. Specifically the bit about not being able to use the workaround on iPad. No way to slice that being a big setback as i don’t use Z3 on Mac.

    I guess I’ll have to just import stems individually to Mac if I need to expand on a project. I’ll probably go str8 to Logic until better integration with Z3 IPad is available if ever.

    Fortunately, my intention for Verselab was primarily as a hardware standalone song/ad/content creating workstation. I use Zenbeats as a standalone also and actually don’t really need midi controllers with it which is why I love its many workflows. Great in app touch midi controllers. But you know…there are times and projects when glass won’t cut it and pads and knobs are so inspiring.

    Aside from all the tapping and grooving fun…there’s the sleek and efficiency factor. I’m a minimalist who doesn’t like carrying around a ton of wires, dongles, hubs, interfaces. I use designer bags and hi tech that fit nicely in them as part of my general business and personal fashion aesthetic. I travel a lot so portability is key. Love the expandable SD and its file system seems tighter than Maschines somehow. That’s so pathetic NI.smh

    Verselab looks cool and requires just a wire to iPad for power. 14” leather sling pack no bulky backpack. 🤢 lol

    I have Maschine Mk3/+, Live, SP and dig all of them. I write songs, ads, short films, commercials, etc and all of those are less than inspiring when it comes to tracking vocals so I never really complete anything with them individually. Everything finds its way into Logic at some point. It’s fine but clumsier than it has to be for 2022.

    Verselab is a great balance of everything I love about my Mk3 (greatly slimmed down obviously), MPC, etc…however very well focused on vocal recording/song writing/structure. It’s hard to explain but it’s just a very well intended song production unit. The onboard sounds are fantastic so I haven’t even installed my user sounds/loops/etc. You just go in. So many layers and great sounding effects are available so I don’t see the need for exporting much to Zenbeats or Logic.

    I would say if you’re primarily just interested in making beats…stick to Maschine, MPC, SP404 Koala, Drambo or Zenbeats on iPad which is currently very inspiring for me.

    However, if you’re interested in completing songs, radio, internet ad spots, content, on one hardware unit without being chained to your desk etc…Verselab is hard to beat. It’s a very focused and tight workflow. Very easy to get and stay in pocket creatively from a beat and songwriting mindset. I’m finding lyrics, chords, ideas, melody, expressions, etc that I’d never find on anything else because creating new layers/takes (humming/recording sound samples thru mic) is so fluid and part of the beat making process. It’s a slightly new approach to something very familiar that comes instant.

    So many quickly accessible effects I’ve been just using my voice as a synth on top and beneath seemingly infinite Roland sounds.

    Let me stop. It is really good tho. Much better than I thought or even fully understand why yet good.

    @CapnWillie : SHUT UP please , you’re making a sale here . I can’t afford the $500 bucks right now .. I’m on the Sweetwater page right now , damn you! 😜😉🤣😁😆😀😜😜😜 ROLAND PLEASE hire this guy!!!
    Seriously that was without a doubt the BEST synopsis of Versalab that’s EVER been done . Exactly what the instrument is all about . Well done, sir !

  • Ba ha ha ha

  • @MatthewAtZenbeats said:
    The MV-1/Zenbeats integration is limited to being an extension to the MV-1 as an editor mode. With that said, for those who want to take a production from an MV-1 and build on it in Zenbeats, I recommend changing the driver mode to Vendor and using our Add Track shortcut to quickly capture stems from the MV1. Note this only works on Mac and Windows currently as iOS and Android only support Generic Mode drivers.

    Interesting :love:
    Gotta try with my MC-101 later (if the same workflow is possible)

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