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Comments
True.
But some politicians run their term and carry out their policies without scandals, obvious lies, and illegal activities blotting their copybook.
I actually think the paper’s still owned by the same family @NeuM , I know, sins of the father and all that but it’s definitely got form as an organisation of polluting discourse in this country, just look at how bizarre the coverage this week is.
I did post a more comprehensive and nuanced poll up thread, I’m not massively keen to revisit that time now, the poll data you saw would depend on which media bubble you were in at the time I expect.. Considering that much that was warned would happen is doing, and that the country is slowly being teased apart in a very real way by these tensions, my hope is that a sensible accommodation can be found that persuades the nations to hold it together. This winner takes all approach clearly isn’t working for anyone, especially the Scots and the northern Irish (who currently don’t have a government after one side apart their dummies over elections that didn’t go their way)
This report is interesting, and from a very reliable source, and talks about how the victory was win not by popular consensus, but by the numbers not being split among parties for the leave side.
https://www.natcen.ac.uk/news-media/press-releases/2020/december/one-year-on-did-the-2019-election-result-reflect-voters’-views-on-brexit/
I think both of those show quite clearly that in the only poll that matters, the actual proportions of voters lent towards revisiting the original decision rather than going full on into the chaos we now have, but that the voting system left us bereft of what many would consider true democracy, especially over such a binary but nuanced choice.
Like I said above, I’m not hugely keen to revisit this, it’s way too painful, and will get us nowhere but the endless circle of argument that got us here. I just want a decent outcome for my country.
Btw Nice one @JohnnyGoodyear , I got my Mosleys muxed ip 😁
Rabbit hole opened 😅🥲
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Public-attitudes-towards-a-no-deal-Brexit-John-Curtice.pdf
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/26/opinium-poll-observer-uk-voters-regret-brexit-referendum-conservative-lead-over-labour
I’d disagree when the whole of the media can’t see or suppress information, then what you have is mass manipulation. To see stories pop up way after the incidents took place, is well ….. determine this yourself, because I’m just a crackpot who believes the whole of our systems are rotten. There are too many problems as a human species we must address, the longer we ignore this corruption, I fear the more chaos and suffering will ensure.
To be fair they’ve got a record of this behaviour in “recent” history having done it twice to leaders who were also at the time PM.
They ousted both Margaret Thatcher and Teresa May whilst they were sitting PMs.
Good point.
I see this as a positive change.
Historically many traditional Tory voters are from the working class
which goes to show that the free education available back in the 21st Century
gave the working class a voice.
They can make more educated decisions rather than merely following the herd.
Well, recent surveys show the vast majority of the public now thinks Brexit wad a bad idea. There should never have been a referendum on it in the first place, but nevertheless, perhaps time for another one. This is not even mentioning the fact that a) the public were blatantly lied to by Boris and other tories through the Brexit campaign b) if young people had got off their arse and voted, Brexit would never have happened. The main reason they didn't, apart from laziness, was that most people thought the country would never be so stupid ss to actually go ahead and vote for it.
Yep. A lot of folks used it as a protest vote not thinking for one second that there would be enough votes to push it through.
All the young folks complaining about Brexit only have themselves to blame.
Sadly about the last thing anyone should think of at this time is reversing Brexit, it’s a poison chalice beyond measure, it would lead to even more unrest. What is done, is done, we need to sort out the sh%tshow that even brexit supporters moan about, Like Lord effing Frost amongst others, that brokered the deal.
Problem is, something like single market access is the only simple way to square the circle that the good Friday agreement creates, so people have to accept at some point that the deranged scorched earth policy of winner takes all that was adopted immediately after the close result in 2016 will need to be re-examined and dropped before any real progress can be made. Almost everything else discussed about Brexit is just wind and blather.
I agree with you, that’s why I say it’s got to be fudge all around. Majority may think it was a bad idea, but reverse it, that’s a stretch too far.
Yeah you're probably right, too late for a reversal.
And to be honest, as a remain voter, I’d be happy with single market; it was what they campaigned on, and would mitigate much of the harm that’s being applied right now and into the future…
The remarkable flipside of this is that the new PM gets to become PM with precisely ZERO popular mandate, as they are chosen by their party cabal alone. By the time we have Johnson's successor, 4(!) of the last 5 UK PMs will have started this way (including all three post-brexit ones). Which imho is a rather poor take on representative democracy.
Technically in support of the person who stood for MP, not of the party - but what's more important is that when voting, people know who the leader of the parties are and therefore who the PM will be if they win. So they do in effect vote for the new PM. That's why it makes sense to write things like "Boris won the election because people were afraid of Corbyn" etc.
Labour voters do that, too. My unpopular opinion is that the powerful combination of the FPTP system, the severely tribal voting, and the non-dom owned, highly toxic tabloid press is what keeps the UK a reliably aristocracy-led, caste-based society to this day, despite this being the 21st century and the UK (still) being one of the wealthiest countries in the world.
This is how well brexit is going: https://www.ft.com/content/a31b4b8e-f9fc-4f1e-84c1-3632f194d05a
"UK trade performance falls to worst level on record in first quarter"
Worst on record.
The only g20 country forecast to do worse than us is Russia, and that’s because we’ve all sanctioned them. We sanctioned ourselves 🙄
True, because we got into bed with them, seduced by their dowry.
Young people may just be as clueless as everyone else about Brexit and the future. Especially if it becomes marketed to them as a holiday brochure. The majority wouldnt even live abroad anyway. So in reality. Freedom of movement is just a business of trading people but maybe it became unbalanced as a business. If the implications of restricting freedom of movement hindered business. Surely it would be the same. If not worse. If everyone just decided to get on a plane and let nations crumble?
The fact is. Even if we conclude humans are just for trade.
You can still leave a Nation
Instead the business model of the EU and freedom of movement ( trade of people ) May have caused issues.
Definitely in my trade, I see ads and requests constantly for people with my skills, but suddenly the requirement for a Schengen passport is rife. Really sad for younger folks trying to get into the game, and mostly annoying for more senior folks like me. But having to calculate whether or not to hire someone from the U.K. is worth it or not on the basis of that simple thing we started to take for granted is just not something that people are going to bother risking…imagine if your key designer was suddenly out of legal days and couldn’t continue just as you were fixing problems, or adding to a show mid tour 😅🙄
Im just trolling ( sort of ) for intellectualness. Even though im dumb.
What if people still want to move to UK and be beneficial instead of Romania.
Should the EU only allow freedom of movement but not be able to leave the EU?
For the sake of the EU.
Or is it ideal that even nations that arnt part of EU. Not collapse etc.
Economics lol.
Im a comdedian also. Unlike Bojo.
If I were from the US and it were like. Son. Why do you want to live in the EU?
Because I want to meet people.
How about. Take this s**tg*n and a tin of beans. Lock yoself in the shed.
If anyone decides to say Hello.
Leak Skywalker or anyone.
You simply blow the doors off.
Anyway.
Thanks.
.....> @Gavinski said:
But they supported it before. Are the people there really this fickle? Seems like they just need to follow the path they're on now and move forward with a comprehensive economic plan for their country. For one thing, if the EU intends to punish Britain for leaving, Britain should quickly enter mutually favorable trade agreements with other countries.
All fair comments, Ultimately I’d prefer a global community. I know that’s not practical now, but I see us evolving to that level at some point, especially once we begin colonising off planet. So baby steps towards that outcome seem like progression to me, reverting to nation states all at anarchy each other seems like a regressive move in comparison, and in my estimation benefits global elites more; divide and rule etc.
Moving to Europe now has become even harder, restricted to those who are well heeled enough to buy property outright, which suits those with fluid capital, but not the ordinary individual, and certainly not the young who wish to spread their wings… it feels like many would prefer us to simply stay where we’re put, and after reading that great Humanity book last year, I can’t help feeling that prehistoric folk had it more worked out than we have…
Id like to travel Europe. Be a shame to not travel the globe and get old but I will probably just get old.
Travelling across Europe is a lot of fun.
Living in a metropolis like London means that you get to meet people from all
over the World but there's nothing like going to see their home countries as well.
Sushi in Japan is not like the sushi elsewhere for instance.
Customs and even body language is different but there are more similarities
than differences I have found.
More corrupt practices? come to light or maybe just ‘cleaning house’ about UBER on BBC Panorama, tonight.
Here’s a link to the investigation on the BBC website,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057321
Not at all.
The people vote for the party they want to lead the country and the party chooses its leader.
When you vote in the voting booth, the name you select on the ballet paper is your local member, not the person wanting to be PM.
Personally, the UK political system is in such a shambles right now and I think the only fair thing to do is to hold a general election. Yep, there will be people who say it not the right time, etc… but when is? We now have had over 12 years of a conservative government and the UK is now in such a bad state, let’s give the people the chance to have their say. I’m from Scotland and have my own opinions but won’t start that conversation here. I’m here for the great music advice only, but feel very passionate about how our country has been heading since the major f*** up that was Brexit. I still see myself as belonging to Europe even if the UK government have decided to try and convert us all to incompetent twits. In my view Brexit was and will be the biggest mistake ever made in the UK for years to come.