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Pianoteq 8 is now on the AppStore

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Comments

  • McDMcD

    @Gavinski said:
    Don't have time to watch this but would u be assuming rightly that ultimately he gives pianoteq the number one spot?

    PianoTeq Video Comparison Timeline and Some Note Taking

    Timeline
    0:30-4:10 #1 PianoTeq Improv - He only has PianoTeq Stage and chose the 2 Steinways
    5:05-5:55 #2 Ravenscroft 275 “not as good at subtle dynamics” + provides many ways to alter the sounds + string resonance, release, more versatile
    6:35-7:30 #3 BeatHawk Studio Piano “some weird things on the release”
    8:54-9:10 #4 Colossus Piano “one of the best pianos but is not.” Cons: the release is really bad.
    11:43-12:48 #5 Pure Piano “more character than Ravenscroft” good releases, no sparkle on treble, limited on volumes, no string resonance (he holds a chord and taps various notes loudly to search for evidence of resonance), limited pianissimo, better at loud
    15:45-15:50 #6 Pure Piano Upright Nice to have
    16:45-17-:15 #7 Korg Module Pro Ivory American D “you can hear the sample transitions” as he increases volume.
    18:10-18:35 #8 Korg Module Pro Ivory Grand limited sustain, obvious sample transitions

    He only has PianoTeq Stage and chose the 2 Steinways.
    19:30 Steinway D NY “Classical” Preset

    The PianoTeq is the most playable piano with extreme attention to details, note sustain, attention to full range of velocities/volumes, Sympathetic resonance, etc.

    Steinway B has more character. D is focused on concert production.

    Grotrian Royal comments

    Too bad he doesn’t have the Petrof or many other to comment on character but this is the true joy of having a more complete collection as if your house is full of world class grands at $50 a piece.

    26:30 PianoTeq Demoing the “Condition” slider to add warmth and even extreme piano neglect for tuning and maintenance.

  • mrufino1mrufino1
    edited May 2023

    @Dav said:

    @mrufino1 said:
    Speaking of Petrof, I am working with a piano teacher in NYC to produce his online jazz theory lessons. We used pianoteq for the whole thing, and to hear pianoteq played by a great player is very cool!

    This week, he had me help him with getting his YouTube page up and running. One of the videos we uploaded was a clip of him with the Glenn Mlller Orchestra in 1982 and he’s playing a Petrof in this clip (he also looks like Howard Stern from that same time period, but I digress!)

    Pretty good clip! Nice piano solo. Do you happen to know if that is Snooky Young in the trumpet section? Kind of looks like him from a distance.

    Currenty I’m liking the Petrof in Pianoteq8 the best for solo piano, but Steinway D for with other instruments.

    I don’t know but I will ask Gerard when I see him again next week!

    For what it’s worth, I do live sound with acoustic pianos pretty often, and pianoteq is the best virtual piano I have heard. It’s really easy to fit in a mix without messing with any of the settings. Although I will always prefer to mic a real piano when I can whether recording or for live sound, I feel like pianoteq is very convincing and would have no issue using it. Anything to never hear another nord acoustic piano sound again….

  • McDMcD
    edited May 2023

    @mrufino1 said:
    pianoteq is the best virtual piano I have heard.

    All these piano apps also run on iPhones and honestly, to the listener they all sound fantastic when coming out of some good powered speakers.

    But it’s great to get the input of a serious sound engineer on the modeled piano vs a real mic’ed up piano that has been carefully selected and attended to at great expense.

  • Montreal_MusicMontreal_Music

    @McD said:

    @mrufino1 said:
    pianoteq is the best virtual piano I have heard.

    All these piano apps also run on iPhones and honestly, to the listener they all sound fantastic when coming out of some good powered speakers.

    But it’s great to get the input of a serious sound engineer on the modeled piano vs a real mic’ed up piano that has been carefully selected and attended to at great expense.

    Which midi controller do you use with Pianoteq? Are you a virtuoso?

  • mrufino1mrufino1

    @McD said:

    @mrufino1 said:
    pianoteq is the best virtual piano I have heard.

    All these piano apps also run on iPhones and honestly, to the listener they all sound fantastic when coming out of some good powered speakers.

    But it’s great to get the input of a serious sound engineer on the modeled piano vs a real mic’ed up piano that has been carefully selected and attended to at great expense.

    I appreciate that, I guess some people consider me a serious engineer. I try my best to make people laugh though…

    But seriously (sorry! Pun not intended), I am very lucky to have been able to mic up a Steinway B in many different ways, with many patient people who let me try crazy ideas out, at the church where I do sound in NYC, both in church services but also in many concerts in all styles. The piano is well maintained, but funny enough, it sits at about 441.5 hz, the piano tuner said it won’t go lower without a crazy amount of tuning for a few months. It just wants to live between 441-442 I guess.

    I also got to mic up a Steinway D for a few years at another place that was NOT well maintained, and that was an adventure. Amazing amazing musicians. But there were times that I thought a cowboy was going to enter through some swinging doors…

    I love the challenge of miking a grand piano though, there’s so many ways to do it, so many ways to do it poorly (I’ve tried them all!), and it really helps you understand phase.

    I recorded this woman’s trio last summer in her apartment, she has some really amazing ideas about music. I learned a TON that night in conversation about how notes interact with each other and about what to avoid on piano. Really interesting reading if anyone is into it.

    https://www.tonalrefraction.com/

    Actually, I wonder what she’d think of pianoteq? I may have to bring it to her sometime and let her play with some of the options…I only have the stage version, I’d have to activate a demo to see what she would do with some of the harmonic stuff.

    Sorry for the long post!

  • michael_mmichael_m

    Still have to upgrade my desktop version then I can use it. Think I’ll do that that as there’s a 3 day weekend coming up.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @McD said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Don't have time to watch this but would u be assuming rightly that ultimately he gives pianoteq the number one spot?

    PianoTeq Video Comparison Timeline and Some Note Taking

    Timeline
    0:30-4:10 #1 PianoTeq Improv - He only has PianoTeq Stage and chose the 2 Steinways
    5:05-5:55 #2 Ravenscroft 275 “not as good at subtle dynamics” + provides many ways to alter the sounds + string resonance, release, more versatile
    6:35-7:30 #3 BeatHawk Studio Piano “some weird things on the release”
    8:54-9:10 #4 Colossus Piano “one of the best pianos but is not.” Cons: the release is really bad.
    11:43-12:48 #5 Pure Piano “more character than Ravenscroft” good releases, no sparkle on treble, limited on volumes, no string resonance (he holds a chord and taps various notes loudly to search for evidence of resonance), limited pianissimo, better at loud
    15:45-15:50 #6 Pure Piano Upright Nice to have
    16:45-17-:15 #7 Korg Module Pro Ivory American D “you can hear the sample transitions” as he increases volume.
    18:10-18:35 #8 Korg Module Pro Ivory Grand limited sustain, obvious sample transitions

    He only has PianoTeq Stage and chose the 2 Steinways.
    19:30 Steinway D NY “Classical” Preset

    The PianoTeq is the most playable piano with extreme attention to details, note sustain, attention to full range of velocities/volumes, Sympathetic resonance, etc.

    Steinway B has more character. D is focused on concert production.

    Grotrian Royal comments

    Too bad he doesn’t have the Petrof or many other to comment on character but this is the true joy of having a more complete collection as if your house is full of world class grands at $50 a piece.

    26:30 PianoTeq Demoing the “Condition” slider to add warmth and even extreme piano neglect for tuning and maintenance.

    Thnx McD! Kind of you. Yeah I'm glad I plumped for the Studio version despite the price. I'll be interested to hear more about Paulo's experiments as to whether you can make any piano sound like any other by just tweaking the physical modeling parameters. I doubt it, and I guess this must mean they have only exposed a handful of the parameters and there's a lot of back end stuff? Not to mention that few people will have the ears and expertise to tweak the models the way the 2 main brains at Pianoteq can.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @mrufino1 said:

    @McD said:

    @mrufino1 said:
    pianoteq is the best virtual piano I have heard.

    All these piano apps also run on iPhones and honestly, to the listener they all sound fantastic when coming out of some good powered speakers.

    But it’s great to get the input of a serious sound engineer on the modeled piano vs a real mic’ed up piano that has been carefully selected and attended to at great expense.

    I appreciate that, I guess some people consider me a serious engineer. I try my best to make people laugh though…

    But seriously (sorry! Pun not intended), I am very lucky to have been able to mic up a Steinway B in many different ways, with many patient people who let me try crazy ideas out, at the church where I do sound in NYC, both in church services but also in many concerts in all styles. The piano is well maintained, but funny enough, it sits at about 441.5 hz, the piano tuner said it won’t go lower without a crazy amount of tuning for a few months. It just wants to live between 441-442 I guess.

    I also got to mic up a Steinway D for a few years at another place that was NOT well maintained, and that was an adventure. Amazing amazing musicians. But there were times that I thought a cowboy was going to enter through some swinging doors…

    I love the challenge of miking a grand piano though, there’s so many ways to do it, so many ways to do it poorly (I’ve tried them all!), and it really helps you understand phase.

    I recorded this woman’s trio last summer in her apartment, she has some really amazing ideas about music. I learned a TON that night in conversation about how notes interact with each other and about what to avoid on piano. Really interesting reading if anyone is into it.

    https://www.tonalrefraction.com/

    Actually, I wonder what she’d think of pianoteq? I may have to bring it to her sometime and let her play with some of the options…I only have the stage version, I’d have to activate a demo to see what she would do with some of the harmonic stuff.

    Sorry for the long post!

    No apologies needed, very very interesting!

  • Paulo164Paulo164

    @Grandbear said:
    I saw it mentioned in a different thread, but I think it deserves more attention: there's a 20% discount available by purchasing any Pianoteq product license at jrrshop.com by using the discount code "group".

    Hi,
    Thank you ! I just tried and currently, the code gives 16% off which is already very good. For those paying in €, you get an additional 5% off thanks to the $>€ exchange rate.

  • Paulo164Paulo164

    @Gavinski said:

    @McD said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Don't have time to watch this but would u be assuming rightly that ultimately he gives pianoteq the number one spot?

    PianoTeq Video Comparison Timeline and Some Note Taking

    Timeline
    0:30-4:10 #1 PianoTeq Improv - He only has PianoTeq Stage and chose the 2 Steinways
    5:05-5:55 #2 Ravenscroft 275 “not as good at subtle dynamics” + provides many ways to alter the sounds + string resonance, release, more versatile
    6:35-7:30 #3 BeatHawk Studio Piano “some weird things on the release”
    8:54-9:10 #4 Colossus Piano “one of the best pianos but is not.” Cons: the release is really bad.
    11:43-12:48 #5 Pure Piano “more character than Ravenscroft” good releases, no sparkle on treble, limited on volumes, no string resonance (he holds a chord and taps various notes loudly to search for evidence of resonance), limited pianissimo, better at loud
    15:45-15:50 #6 Pure Piano Upright Nice to have
    16:45-17-:15 #7 Korg Module Pro Ivory American D “you can hear the sample transitions” as he increases volume.
    18:10-18:35 #8 Korg Module Pro Ivory Grand limited sustain, obvious sample transitions

    He only has PianoTeq Stage and chose the 2 Steinways.
    19:30 Steinway D NY “Classical” Preset

    The PianoTeq is the most playable piano with extreme attention to details, note sustain, attention to full range of velocities/volumes, Sympathetic resonance, etc.

    Steinway B has more character. D is focused on concert production.

    Grotrian Royal comments

    Too bad he doesn’t have the Petrof or many other to comment on character but this is the true joy of having a more complete collection as if your house is full of world class grands at $50 a piece.

    26:30 PianoTeq Demoing the “Condition” slider to add warmth and even extreme piano neglect for tuning and maintenance.

    Thnx McD! Kind of you. Yeah I'm glad I plumped for the Studio version despite the price. I'll be interested to hear more about Paulo's experiments as to whether you can make any piano sound like any other by just tweaking the physical modeling parameters. I doubt it, and I guess this must mean they have only exposed a handful of the parameters and there's a lot of back end stuff? Not to mention that few people will have the ears and expertise to tweak the models the way the 2 main brains at Pianoteq can.

    No indeed, it is not possible to have 2 different pianos sound the same.
    My approach is to push each model to its limit, making it sound as close as possible to what I consider would be my “ideal” piano sound. Then I realize some models cannot be pushed further and “fail” where other models come closer to my “ideal” piano. This is when I can quite confidently discard some models and keep the other ones in the race.
    Still it is subjective as to what an ideal piano is but at least I have a quite rational approach 😊

  • mjcouchemjcouche

    This thread:

  • realdaweirealdawei

    @Gavinski said:

    @realdawei said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Paulo164 said:
    My « complaints » so far :

    • drop down menu to select the instrument : quite glitching, needs to be scrolled down every time you want to change the preset
    • The EQ3 FX : I would like to be able to change the Q factor without typing the value with the virtual keyboard. A select + pinch gesture would be awesome.

    Yeah, drop down menu is really a disaster - please wrote to them and tell them that. I've mentioned it, but the more the merrier. It's a stain on an otherwise excellent app

    Where to do so? And is there a consensus on the best implementation that can be given as a reference? I find many of not most AUv3 lose the mojo in the preset area. I like Model D implementation as well as King of FM.

    Open Pianoteq. Choose ‘options’ on top right. Choose ‘About’ on bottom left. Choose ‘feedback and bug reports’ on the bottom.

    Yeah, strangely, so many devs can’t seem to implement a decent preset menu. I can think of a lot of shit ones offhand, but few good ones.

    Yeah, the model 15 preset menu does look pretty good. Some things a good preset manager needs:

    Easy batch import and export
    Ideally presets should be exposed in the files system
    Unless the app exposes presets to the files system, it absolutely MUST have a way of importing presets that is internal to the app. For example, Virsyn Tera Pro does not have this feature. In theory, you should be able to click on a zip of exported presets in Files, then choose Tera Pro as a destination. But due to bugs in the Apple share menu (still?!!!! WTF!) Tera Pro does not always appear. As a consequence I have been unable to install a preset pack DMT Cymatics sent me.
    Ability to scroll and choose the preset you want without accidentally selecting something you didn’t want to select - Pianoteq is a nightmare in this regard
    Easy ability to create, order, name and rename your own banks
    Any attempt to save should always be a ‘save as’ offering a chance to name the preset. If you have modified an existing preset, that name should appear and you should be free to overwrite it or edit it. Pianoteq is bad in this regard. Pressing Save will completely overwrite the original preset without offering a ‘save as’ function. For a ‘save as’ option you need to long press on the save button: totally unintuitive. They are aware of this problem.
    Warning prompt if you try to overwrite a factory preset or one of your own with the same name it had before you tweaked it.
    In the case of Pianoteq, a user might want to save tweaks on an instrument in a user subcategory of that instrument’s folder (eg the Steinway NY D folder, rather than a totally separate Steinway NY D folder)

    Anything I have missed?

    I think it would be good if they also enumerate all the presets in the AU presets structure. Korg module does this and I’m finding it a convenient / consistent way to browse presets in LP

  • ErrkaPettiErrkaPetti
    edited May 2023

    Deleted comment - it seems to be just BS, not we take for serious now…

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @ErrkaPetti said:
    Anyone read/heard the rumours that Modartt and Apple has an dispute, and, it can lead to that Pianoteq vanish from Appstore?

    No - links please - that would be devastating for me and I would definitely be asking for a refund for their part of the upgrade I paid for.

  • Paulo164Paulo164

    @ErrkaPetti said:
    Anyone read/heard the rumours that Modartt and Apple has an dispute, and, it can lead to that Pianoteq vanish from Appstore?

    Oh no ! That would be too bad.
    If such rumours really exist, I guess it's because Modartt has created a kind of backdoor store that allows to skip the appstore and cut Apple commission.

  • ErrkaPettiErrkaPetti

    @Gavinski said:

    @ErrkaPetti said:
    Anyone read/heard the rumours that Modartt and Apple has an dispute, and, it can lead to that Pianoteq vanish from Appstore?

    No - links please - that would be devastating for me and I would definitely be asking for a refund for their part of the upgrade I paid for.

    I’ll check where I saw this, but, it was on another big musician forum (a member there mentioned this)…
    I reading a lot of forum so, it may take a while to check backwards in time…

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @Gavinski said:

    @ErrkaPetti said:
    Anyone read/heard the rumours that Modartt and Apple has an dispute, and, it can lead to that Pianoteq vanish from Appstore?

    No - links please - that would be devastating for me and I would definitely be asking for a refund for their part of the upgrade I paid for.

    Yeah that would definitely be a kick to the gut. I really hope this rumor doesn’t hold any water.

  • McDMcD

    Modartt was able to pull off an end-around of the Apple Store. Is there any other app that downloads from Apple for free and routes all transactions to its website store for sales?

    I hope Apple appreciates the benefit of PianoTeq on their hardware because that huge installed base of Laptop, Desktop and Raspberry Pi PianoTeq users will buy Apple hardware to extend the value of their sunk cost in PianoTeq. PianoTeq is also reaping a harvest of Version 8 upgrades to be able to use the IOS version too.

    If Apple makes this model available to Reason, Ableton, Bitwig, etc we may see some movement there too.

  • GrandbearGrandbear

    @McD said:
    Modartt was able to pull off an end-around of the Apple Store. Is there any other app that downloads from Apple for free and routes all transactions to its website store for sales?

    I hope Apple appreciates the benefit of PianoTeq on their hardware because that huge installed base of Laptop, Desktop and Raspberry Pi PianoTeq users will buy Apple hardware to extend the value of their sunk cost in PianoTeq. PianoTeq is also reaping a harvest of Version 8 upgrades to be able to use the IOS version too.

    If Apple makes this model available to Reason, Ableton, Bitwig, etc we may see some movement there too.

    The Kindle app does something like this, but it doesn't provide any way of purchasing content through the App Store. I don't know what's the difference with the Epic Games/Fortnite situation for instance, or all the other media services that you can subscribe to and pay for outsidr of the App Store. Maybe there's a distinction between content and functionality?

  • McDMcD

    @Grandbear said:
    Epic Games/Fortnite situation for instance

    Is there a legal case that opened the door for Apple to be forced to tolerate Modartt generating revenues without Apple taking a cut.

    Modartt is a French company… has the EU enacted regulations that constrain Apple from their controls of the market and software vendors that no other company enjoys?

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Also - it would be a pr disaster for Apple to have given this the green light and then withdraw it after so many people having purchased. It was clear in the release version that it was allowing people to buy via Modartt site. Apple may just have to suck it up.

  • heshes
    edited May 2023

    And maybe this is all just unfounded rumor, started by someone who said, "I'm surprised Apple allowed that." and then it took on a life of its own in the telephone game.

  • realdaweirealdawei

    @hes said:
    And maybe this is all just unfounded rumor, started by someone who said, "I'm surprised Apple allowed that." and then it took on a life of its own in the telephone game.

    High probability

  • spitefacespiteface
    edited May 2023

    @McD said:
    Modartt was able to pull off an end-around of the Apple Store. Is there any other app that downloads from Apple for free and routes all transactions to its website store for sales?

    Tonex does a similar thing, maybe? I downloaded the free version and bought the $150 version through the ik website (used a bunch of jam points too). And now I have that version on my phone/iPad without purchasing the iap. Apple got $0. Maybe the Modartt thing is different?

  • spitefacespiteface
    edited May 2023

    Duplicate post…

  • McDMcD

    @spiteface said:
    Tonex does a similar thing, maybe? I downloaded the free version and bought the $150 version through the ik website (used a bunch of jam points too). And now I have that version on my phone/iPad without purchasing the iap. Apple got $0. Maybe the Modartt thing is different?

    That sounds like the same business model… it bypasses Apple managing the transaction and taking a cut.

    But, I see my downloaded version of Tonex has 8 IAP products that Apple would manage, so, more of a hybrid strategy
    If I could purchase direct from IK Multimedia and cut Apple out… more profit for IK Multimedia. But Apple can assume healthy revenue from those that hate providing credentials/credit details to software vendors.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @Gavinski said:
    Also - it would be a pr disaster for Apple to have given this the green light and then withdraw it after so many people having purchased. It was clear in the release version that it was allowing people to buy via Modartt site. Apple may just have to suck it up.

    Oh definitely. It’d be a verrry bad look. I’m hoping it’s just a random unfounded rumor.

  • mjcouchemjcouche

    @McD Affinity did this for all of their version 2 apps. And they are still regularly promoted on the App Store on all platforms. Audible Genius also does this for Syntorial. I doubt there is any issue with the “back door” way Modartt did this given others do it too.

  • KrupaKrupa

    I thought IK did something similar as well at some point?

  • obijohnobijohn
    edited May 2023

    @hes said:
    And maybe this is all just unfounded rumor, started by someone who said, "I'm surprised Apple allowed that." and then it took on a life of its own in the telephone game.

    Most likely this. In the App Store it lists the in-app purchases and Apple will get their cut when those are bought using the in-app purchase model. That doesn’t prevent a developer from allowing other types of purchases on their own site. There used to be severe limitations on linking out to a site for external purchases but that has been relaxed recently. Linking out is fine now. There are also some situations where the app can use its own (non-Apple in-app purchases) store within the app, but Apple will still take their cut from the developer in this case. But that doesn’t apply to the “fully external” store model.

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