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Some of the background history on this is interesting.
It's a genuine risk Apple are taking, which is good, much more like the old Apple than the current one. Silicon Valley collectively need VR to work. Apple will be taking a loss on these headsets, the same way Meta are on theirs, so that the industry can be established before it is snuffed out, the VR industry is currently faltering (the design team wanted to wait for slimmer glasses not a headset, operations team won).
But as this is the pro model, a lower cost consumer model will come, but only if there is software, which is why they are releasing now before it's ready.
They need apps.
Here's the difficult reality the Apple Vision current gen will face: (And I've got quite a lot of VR experience), For work and productivity no one wants to wear a ski mask for hours at a time, all day. For industrial design in factories, yes but at home? Only if I'm welding or using toxic chemicals. But not doing creative work, I don't want anything strapped to my face then. I don't want to watch long films like that either.
Apple are only expecting to sell a million of these but the next gen should be interesting, I hope it works, but it needs to shrink in size. Also Facetime with AI avatars of your face, that's not going to catch on. But then no one uses facetime for work anyway.
Also the battery pack? that's another sign it's not ready. They didn't want it to be in the headset, makes it even heavier and hotter. But it'll be really annoying having that extra thing to think about dangling off. Two hours also isn't long enough. With Quest the battery is in the headset and if you add an external battery pack like Apples then it can last over 5 hours.
Hahaha! 😂 Nah, not even Elon comes close, because at least many people don't care about Elon enough to listen to him. Apple is bigger than Elon and always will be. And @NeuM is correct in that "when they're right, they're right". But yeah, cut the BS out of these WWDC presentations and get to the heart of the matter already.
After I clocked out after 40 minutes, it seems I missed some huge announcement about glasses or AR/VR or something?
Mmm, could be the next Pippin.
Agree on all points.
Also, to my earlier mention of the problems of headaches and vertigo that have plagued VR headset users in the past… I just read an AP article where Apple says these won’t cause nausea and headaches that have been a problem in other recent VR headsets. It doesn’t say how it’s no longer a problem, but evidently it’s still been a problem for some users with other recent headset models.
In the past, I believe the issue was with the cilia in the auditory system, which helps us maintain balance, gets thrown off because what the eyes are seeing in the headset doesn’t match what the cilia senses in the real world. The inconsistency between inputs for balance causes vertigo and nausea.
The close proximity of the small screens that close to the eye used to be a problem too. I can see how that could possibly be resolved with a sophisticated lens system, but I don’t know how they fix the balance issue with the incongruent input from the cilia for balance. The article didn’t say how they addressed this, only that it’s somehow been resolved.
One possibility is that because the primary use case is as an AR device, the user has less disconnect between visual input and vestibular system input.
That’s a good point. I noticed that you can have some of the real environment viewable around the virtual screen you’re viewing within the headset. Or, you can block it all out. I bet you’re right and that’s how they very simply and elegantly solved that problem.
Yeah, while I think those things can be improved by the technology as frame rates, latency and resolution improve. The latency on the Apple headset is very good. But it's not solving the fundamental problem, that VR and AR headsets are by design quite anti-social and we are social creatures. You don't want to share in watching films with someone with a glass bowl over your eyes, you want to touch your partners head, see their real eyes etc.
So I think that they will probably always be better as niche products for specialist applications and solo experiences.
I think the real hurdle is true hologram technology where you don't need headsets and can share the experience properly. But that's still a long way off. That will definitely take off when it's possible as it solves so many problems.
I’m curious, if this is the Pro version, what functionality will they have to remove to make a cheaper non-Pro option in the future?
Perhaps this current spec becomes the non-Pro version in three years when an updated device is unveiled? Retaining the M2 chip while newer Pro versions move up to newer/faster/more powerful processors seems pretty likely to me, at least.
Good first hands on (eyes on?) impressions from MKBHD:
Materials will change (there is precedent in the iPhone line), the chips will be used across other product lines so they'll become cheaper as more are manufactured, battery life might be degraded slightly for a lower priced line... that kind of thing.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone here is OK with strapping a computer to your face? No one sees any issues with that from a physical, real life point of view?
For use at home, as long as it's comfortable, yes I could totally see using a face computer.
No. I think it’s an abomination. It’s another step along the path that’s led us already to people walking along glued to their phones, ignoring the real world. It’s very sad.
I’m starting to come around to the fact that 3500 might not be such a bad price for such a premium product
I guess it's the wrong forum to be questioning the "advancement" of tech and the health implications of strapping a computer to your face.
Except Apple’s implementation is the opposite of what you’ve described. Right now… today… a person can get lost in a book, a phone call, a crossword puzzle, gardening… what is the difference if a person voluntarily chooses to spend their time in a way you may not choose? “Ignoring the real world” is what most people do most of the time anyway.
I was thinking about the actual physical aspects of placing a computer circuit on your face. There have got to be some health implications to this which may not be obvious at this point. I guess each to their own. It is a free will world we exist in and I'm not here to place judgement on anyone for their choices, just curious.
@Mountain_Hamlet said:
VR headsets have been around for donkeys years. They haven’t caught on compared to other devices because the majority don’t want to sit with a pair of goggles strapped to their face, when they can comfortably do most of the same things via a laptop or tablet, held comfortably at arms length.
Where I could see this device being useful, is for people with physical disabilities. But at 3.5k, they’re probably the ones least likely to be able to afford them.
Unless they come up with some unique, killer apps, this will be a niche market at best.
How much stray radiation leaks from the average microwave oven?
(Answer: "A Federal standard (21 CFR 1030.10) limits the amount of microwaves that can leak from an oven throughout its lifetime to 5 milliwatts (mW) of microwave radiation per square centimeter at approximately 2 inches from the oven surface.")
Apple extensively tests these things before they sell them and they are reviewed by all of the necessary governmental agencies for safety. Here's their iPhone safety information page (for example): https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/important-safety-information-iph301fc905/ios
.
Do you work for Apple? The point is I don't sit there leaning my face up against the microwave oven. It's not just about radiation although that's a part of it. I have yet to encounter a piece of electronics that doesn't get hot. This is all energy that goes somewhere (yes, I know radiation).
Anyway, I was just asking the question as it appeared as if no one was really that concerned. The only main concern appeared to be about price which is a pretty limited part of the conversation. I'm not going to hijack the Apple fandom any further.
I get what you're saying. It could be potentially useful in the disability market. They have a serious amount funding in this country (Australia) so it's a potential. Still I just wanted to ask the question around potential health effects of using one of these things and planting it on your face. Looks like this might be the wrong place to be asking such questions. All good.
No, I think it’s a valid question, which I don’t have an answer for. I was responding to your “everyone here is OK with strapping a computer to your face” question. Regardless of potential health impacts it’s not something I’d want to do, and existing headsets don’t seem to have captured mass markets yet either.
Apple: "In iOS 17 we'll tell you if your computer is too close to your face"
Also Apple: "Put this computer on your face"
Speaking of health effects, should we include the mental health effects of looking like a complete dork when wearing a pair of ski goggles in your living room*?
*This will be a fun read a few years from now when it will be standard home wear... I mean, "do you really want to look like a complete dork while walking down the street holding a plastic gadget to your ear and speaking aloud to noone in particular" was a reasonable-sounding takedown just a few decades ago 🙂)
Thank you to all who sat through this stuff and summarised. Saved me from having to!
I’m very much in the “just features I’ll either not use or have to turn off” camp. I mean: stickers and Lock Screen customisation. FFS. 🥱
On Macs: very expensive machines that most of their customers don’t need. They’re a victim of their own success here, as the M1s were pretty much all most people would ever need, so the more expensive ones have a limited market. Doubtless extremely useful for those that need it, though.
On the headset thingy: with the exception of a few specialised uses, and possibly gaming or custom content, the things have been a solution looking for a problem for decades now (IMHO). I get the arguments about them getting cheaper, smaller etc over time, but still I’m not convinced I’d have a use for anything like that. Speaking as someone who recently found out I probably count as a boomer…
Consider Benn Jordan’s take on Atmos and apply his thinking to VR:
Well i was already thinking about infrared light constantly shining to your eye's retina (there are multiple infrared lights inside Vision Pro which are used for analysing your eyes movements, so they are basically nonstop shining on your eyes.. curious if there was made some clinical study if this is harmless for eye retina in long term )
The abuse and heckling I'd get from the Mrs just wouldn't be worth it...
I still think people doing that look like dorks, but then I'm a sad old pre-mobile boomer! Seeing parents in play parks and on the beach, glued to their phones, while their kids play in front of them trying to get their attention, mum & dad missing those never-to-be-repeated magical moments instead checking their Instagram feed. Bob from the office on the train, shouting into his phone "I'M ON THE TRAIN. WHAT? YES, I'M ON THE TRAIN". Dorks.
Who knows, maybe these things will catch on, and in ten years time those same parents will be wearing bloody VR goggles while their kids are swept out to sea, and Bob from the office, immersed in a 3d porn adventure, won't know (or care) where the hell he is.