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WWDC 2023 - What to expect today?

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Comments

  • cyberheatercyberheater
    edited June 2023

    @NeuM said:

    @dendy said:

    @NeuM said:

    @dendy said:

    @Milkyway1980 said:
    This whole presentation reminds me of Black Mirror episode. Anyways if apple decides to push this tech, and i think they will, i see huge potential, especially in their ecosystem with all amazing apps they have. Especially now since they are introducing games, there will be jobs for developers. Looking forward to consumer version thought, 3.5k is still to expensive, kinda in a range of Vario, another great vr headset. Let's see, exciting times

    honestly more i think about it more impractical i found it for anything other than watching movies and playing games.. and for that purpose it needs to cost 10x less for mass adoption

    • for video calls / online meatings - it makes no sense until ALL callers will be not equiped by same tech and then - what they will watch - other people's eyes, or virtual avatars ? During video calls , there is reason to see whole face - it has deeper psychological / neurological reason ( google "mirroring neurons" - our brain needs actually see whole face to build emphatic relationship with other participants)

    • for daily work as replacement for monitors it makes no sense either (can't imagine having that thing on my head for +8 hours)

    Overpriced gaming interface and home cinema.. that's all it is.

    I bet this ends like huge fail, at the end they will sell it bellow production costs and then they will quietly remove it from portfolio. I smell biggest marketing fail in Apple history.

    I thought you were the big VR defender here? You should be delighted with what was announced today. No one else has taken this same path Apple demonstrated today. This is a big step torward mass adoption for the entire AR/VR industry. They should be kissing Apple's feet for showing them the right way.

    initially inwas excited.. from technical point of view it's fascinating device and they did amazing job to put together top technologies into one device.. really amazing tech.

    problem is, when i start imagine (and i have really big imagination) how i would use it in real world., during daily routine - . i always end just with gaming or watching movies.. for rest of use cases i just see really major impractical drawbacks and reasons to not use it .. and 2h battery lifetime is likeabsolute showstopper for most use cases

    Meta Quest 2 has 2-3 hour battery life. Is this better or worse than that? And what are the odds you'd be plugged into power if you're at a desk or on a couch? Odds are very, very high.

    No one is going skiing in these things.

    Wait till the tiktokers get hold of it. It’s going to be mayhem.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @cyberheater said:

    @NeuM said:

    @dendy said:

    @NeuM said:

    @dendy said:

    @Milkyway1980 said:
    This whole presentation reminds me of Black Mirror episode. Anyways if apple decides to push this tech, and i think they will, i see huge potential, especially in their ecosystem with all amazing apps they have. Especially now since they are introducing games, there will be jobs for developers. Looking forward to consumer version thought, 3.5k is still to expensive, kinda in a range of Vario, another great vr headset. Let's see, exciting times

    honestly more i think about it more impractical i found it for anything other than watching movies and playing games.. and for that purpose it needs to cost 10x less for mass adoption

    • for video calls / online meatings - it makes no sense until ALL callers will be not equiped by same tech and then - what they will watch - other people's eyes, or virtual avatars ? During video calls , there is reason to see whole face - it has deeper psychological / neurological reason ( google "mirroring neurons" - our brain needs actually see whole face to build emphatic relationship with other participants)

    • for daily work as replacement for monitors it makes no sense either (can't imagine having that thing on my head for +8 hours)

    Overpriced gaming interface and home cinema.. that's all it is.

    I bet this ends like huge fail, at the end they will sell it bellow production costs and then they will quietly remove it from portfolio. I smell biggest marketing fail in Apple history.

    I thought you were the big VR defender here? You should be delighted with what was announced today. No one else has taken this same path Apple demonstrated today. This is a big step torward mass adoption for the entire AR/VR industry. They should be kissing Apple's feet for showing them the right way.

    initially inwas excited.. from technical point of view it's fascinating device and they did amazing job to put together top technologies into one device.. really amazing tech.

    problem is, when i start imagine (and i have really big imagination) how i would use it in real world., during daily routine - . i always end just with gaming or watching movies.. for rest of use cases i just see really major impractical drawbacks and reasons to not use it .. and 2h battery lifetime is likeabsolute showstopper for most use cases

    Meta Quest 2 has 2-3 hour battery life. Is this better or worse than that? And what are the odds you'd be plugged into power if you're at a desk or on a couch? Odds are very, very high.

    No one is going skiing in these things.

    Wait till the tiktokers get hold of it. It’s going to be mayhem.

    I could see that.

  • The Krazy WabbitThe Krazy Wabbit

    69 years of Logic Pro subscription or Snorkeling? Tough call.

  • Lady_App_titudeLady_App_titude 
    > @"The Krazy Wabbit" said:

    69 years of Logic Pro subscription or Snorkeling? Tough ## call.

    :smiley:

  • realdaweirealdawei
    edited June 2023

    watched with my SWE team…ready to rock with Apple Vision Pro….but for commercial use cases - will be fantastic for building immersion training experiences for deep pocketed clients

  • wahnfriedenwahnfrieden
    edited June 2023

    @cyberheater said:

    @NeuM said:

    @setAI said:
    I'm trying to think what city is it safe to walk around in public with a $3, 500 piece of tech on your head?

    You’re probably not going to do that. In another 3-5 years they’ll be selling 2nd or 3rd gen versions which are less costly and more widely owned.

    Once they get to around 1500 I'll think about it.

    it’ll never happen. iphone is inching near that price. by the time it would hit that with later models, new iphone base models will be at that price and these won’t be cheaper than iphone ever. 5 years of product development is another 20+% inflation

  • wahnfriedenwahnfrieden

    AUM needs to be able to place AUv3 windows around a Full Space. It needs this feature.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @wahnfrieden said:

    @cyberheater said:

    @NeuM said:

    @setAI said:
    I'm trying to think what city is it safe to walk around in public with a $3, 500 piece of tech on your head?

    You’re probably not going to do that. In another 3-5 years they’ll be selling 2nd or 3rd gen versions which are less costly and more widely owned.

    Once they get to around 1500 I'll think about it.

    it’ll never happen. iphone is inching near that price. by the time it would hit that with later models, new iphone base models will be at that price and these won’t be cheaper than iphone ever. 5 years of product development is another 20+% inflation

    The real question is how much inflation we'll see over the next two years, not five.

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited June 2023

    @dendy said:
    honestly more i think about it more impractical i found it for anything other than watching movies and playing games.. and for that purpose it needs to cost 10x less for mass adoption

    Yah, it seems like a big dollar novelty item interface for the rich. Cant see many devs doing anything I would find very interesting for it, unless they just do it as a work of passion, but at that price it sure reduces the market and potential dev population for cool niche things.

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @AudioGus said:
    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    You can dial in the level of immersion, all the way to fully-immersive. That doesn’t appear to be Apple’s main focus for marketing, but the capability is definitely there.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:
    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    You can dial in the level of immersion, all the way to fully-immersive. That doesn’t appear to be Apple’s main focus for marketing, but the capability is definitely there.

    Hmmm, I guess darkening the screen backdrop, but as far as physical tracking goes I imagine there are much larger limitations than with other options.

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    Actually, we should also be looking at premium AR headset systems, since that’s how this is being marketed. The Microsoft Hololens 2 starts at…$3500. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:
    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    You can dial in the level of immersion, all the way to fully-immersive. That doesn’t appear to be Apple’s main focus for marketing, but the capability is definitely there.

    Hmmm, I guess darkening the screen backdrop, but as far as physical tracking goes I imagine there are much larger limitations than with other options.

    Why do you imagine that?

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @celtic_elk said:
    Actually, we should also be looking at premium AR headset systems, since that’s how this is being marketed. The Microsoft Hololens 2 starts at…$3500. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy

    Yah for sure, it is also what inclines me to think there wont be much market for interesting cool apps. :/

  • NeuMNeuM

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:
    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    You can dial in the level of immersion, all the way to fully-immersive. That doesn’t appear to be Apple’s main focus for marketing, but the capability is definitely there.

    Hmmm, I guess darkening the screen backdrop, but as far as physical tracking goes I imagine there are much larger limitations than with other options.

    Why do you imagine that?

    All being contained just in the headset. I doubt Apple will be doing much with body trackers etc. and I am sure 3rd party hardware devs are skittish to do anything for apple devices, lol recalling all those 'docks' made for ipads back in the day that are now useless. But who knows, maybe they will have some 'pair your i-device' that 3d scans you and the enviro soon enough to beef it up. Maybe for the Vision Air in three, four years.

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited June 2023

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    Did you bother watching the whole Vision Pro presentation? The glass can remain transparent while presenting a non-transparent overlay and it can also completely block out everything. Check it out again and watch the entire segment.

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @AudioGus said:
    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    It’s not "darkening the backdrop." It’s adjusting the balance between the feed from the external cameras and the device-generated video feed. Once you dial that all the way to "device feed only," you’ve got immersive VR. This is no less an immersive VR device than the Quest Pro is (and the Vision Pro is probably a better VR device, on a number of levels, starting with not letting external light into the headset).

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited June 2023

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    Did you bother watching the whole Vision Pro presentation? The glass can remain transparent while presenting a non-transparent overlay and it can also completely block out everything. Check it out again and watch the entire segment.

    Didn't I just say that? I am talking about tracking. Nothing to do with visuals.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:
    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    It’s not "darkening the backdrop." It’s adjusting the balance between the feed from the external cameras and the device-generated video feed. Once you dial that all the way to "device feed only," you’ve got immersive VR. This is no less an immersive VR device than the Quest Pro is (and the Vision Pro is probably a better VR device, on a number of levels, starting with not letting external light into the headset).

    Right, but again I am talking about the tracking and not visual immersion.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    Did you bother watching the whole Vision Pro presentation? The glass can remain transparent while presenting a non-transparent overlay and it can also completely block out everything. Check it out again and watch the entire segment.

    Didn't I just say that? I am talking about tracking. Nothing to do with visuals.

    Tracking has everything to do with the visuals. If there's lag in the tracking, people get motion sickness. There's reportedly no lag in the Apple unit.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited June 2023

    -

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk
    edited June 2023

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:
    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    It’s not "darkening the backdrop." It’s adjusting the balance between the feed from the external cameras and the device-generated video feed. Once you dial that all the way to "device feed only," you’ve got immersive VR. This is no less an immersive VR device than the Quest Pro is (and the Vision Pro is probably a better VR device, on a number of levels, starting with not letting external light into the headset).

    Right, but again I am talking about the tracking and not visual immersion.

    You’re talking about tracking now. You weren’t talking about tracking in the comment I responded to. And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. You don’t need to have external room sensors.

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited June 2023

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @AudioGus said:
    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    It’s not "darkening the backdrop." It’s adjusting the balance between the feed from the external cameras and the device-generated video feed. Once you dial that all the way to "device feed only," you’ve got immersive VR. This is no less an immersive VR device than the Quest Pro is (and the Vision Pro is probably a better VR device, on a number of levels, starting with not letting external light into the headset).

    Right, but again I am talking about the tracking and not visual immersion.

    You’re talking about tracking now. You weren’t talking about tracking in the comment I responded to.

    When I said "There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'." i was refering to tracking. That is the comment you replied to.

    And I don’t see what the tracking problem is. There are existing self-contained systems that track for immersive VR. >You don’t need to have external room sensors.

    To compete with the high end VR you need more than just head tracking and yes that is why I also say they are AR focused not VR.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @NeuM said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @NeuM said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    Has anyone bothered to look up what a premium VR headset and the PC hardware to support it will cost you? The $3500 price point is substantially more competitive given that comparison.

    That's the real comparison that needs to be made. This is world-class technology in a consumer product.

    My quick back-of-the envelope calculations suggest you’d pay at least $2600 for a PCVR setup using the HTC Vive Pro 2, which seems to be widely considered the premier consumer-class headset today. That gets you the headset, controllers, and base station, the $350 wireless kit, and a desktop PC that can provide the computational power necessary to get optimal performance. No portability, substantially worse display resolution, and none of the interesting AR and social features that Apple is pushing hard with the Vision Pro.

    The Vision Pro really doesn't seem to be a VR thing though. Seems like they are just all in AR, so apples/oranges too isn't it?

    It's both. Watch their presentation and suddenly all of these other headsets look obsolete.

    Nah. Just looked like it can darken the backdrop. There is more to VR than just 'i can't see out'.

    Did you bother watching the whole Vision Pro presentation? The glass can remain transparent while presenting a non-transparent overlay and it can also completely block out everything. Check it out again and watch the entire segment.

    Didn't I just say that? I am talking about tracking. Nothing to do with visuals.

    Tracking has everything to do with the visuals. If there's lag in the tracking, people get motion sickness. There's reportedly no lag in the Apple unit.

    Again, not talking about visuals. Tracking applies to limbs and peripherals too.

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